Kleemann header need delete primary cat ?
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From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
Kleemann header need delete primary cat ?
When installing the Kleemann header, need to delete primary cat ? my mechanic said no but Cory ask me to send back the ECU so any ideas ?
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2006 E55
You still need to tune the car for the headers - at least I would think to get optimal performance and smooth delivery.
I think a great deal of the power gain comes from deleting the bottleneck primaries. I, for one, plan to delete the primaries and have Cory take care of the ECU tuning/"ready". However, I think leaving the cats in place might also help for reducing the low end torque loss...is this true? If so, I might opt to leave them in place, if this is possible.
Also, after doing research and talking to a few members, it seems if you don't use the downpipes provided by Kleemann with their headers, the alignment is off with the Kleemann headers and the primary cats.
Your best bet would be to call/email Cory and ask him. The guy is awesome and very helpful.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here ...
I think a great deal of the power gain comes from deleting the bottleneck primaries. I, for one, plan to delete the primaries and have Cory take care of the ECU tuning/"ready". However, I think leaving the cats in place might also help for reducing the low end torque loss...is this true? If so, I might opt to leave them in place, if this is possible.
Also, after doing research and talking to a few members, it seems if you don't use the downpipes provided by Kleemann with their headers, the alignment is off with the Kleemann headers and the primary cats.
Your best bet would be to call/email Cory and ask him. The guy is awesome and very helpful.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here ...
Last edited by ArmoE55; Dec 16, 2011 at 01:30 PM.
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
Kinda have a body shop did it for me. I bought a small cane from Amazon....... only $30 with shipping. Not sure will work but just did it.
http://www.amazon.com/Colorgard-Cera...4061551&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/Colorgard-Cera...4061551&sr=8-2
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Toronto
2004 E55
Kinda have a body shop did it for me. I bought a small cane from Amazon....... only $30 with shipping. Not sure will work but just did it.
http://www.amazon.com/Colorgard-Cera...4061551&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/Colorgard-Cera...4061551&sr=8-2
oh man, i can't see that paint surviving...
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2006 E55
Necessary, no.
Beneficial, yes.
From what I've gathered after researching and reading, is that coating the headers properly and with a reputable company keeps the exhaust temps within the header instead of getting out into the engine bay. Thus reducing heat substantially in the engine bay. On top of that, coating helps get the hot gases flowing out and away through the exhaust more efficiently.
In the end, for the price you pay to get the headers coated and anything that helps with keeping things cool with these cars, I think it's a no brainer.
FWIW, here is the response I received from Cory regarding the primaries and deleting them. From this answer, I will definitely be deleting the primaries, I trust Cory's word:
-----
backpressure:
Because this is a forced-induction engine, back pressure is your enemy, not your ally. When it comes to FI, you want to remove as much exhaust gas as quickly as possible, which means as free flowing as possible. If we were talking about a normally aspirated engine, I would have a different answer for you. Different header TYPES will effect the torque curve differently, but you will never see a LOSS of TQ by making the exhaust system as free flowing as possible.
It is not possible to use the factory primary cats with the KLEEMANN headers- there's simply not enough room- the factory catalyst only represent a restriction, and this is one of the reasons the KLEEMANN headers perform so well- we are removing all of the major restrictions from the system.
We have a dyno of an SL55 with the K2 package I did not long ago- I don't see any loss in low end TQ- quite the opposite, actually- this car made 566 lb/ft. at the WHEELS at a mere 3000 RPM so we actually gained low-end torque, as the stock car's peak torque wasn't available until about 3400-3500 RPM.
Beneficial, yes.
From what I've gathered after researching and reading, is that coating the headers properly and with a reputable company keeps the exhaust temps within the header instead of getting out into the engine bay. Thus reducing heat substantially in the engine bay. On top of that, coating helps get the hot gases flowing out and away through the exhaust more efficiently.
In the end, for the price you pay to get the headers coated and anything that helps with keeping things cool with these cars, I think it's a no brainer.
FWIW, here is the response I received from Cory regarding the primaries and deleting them. From this answer, I will definitely be deleting the primaries, I trust Cory's word:
-----
backpressure:
Because this is a forced-induction engine, back pressure is your enemy, not your ally. When it comes to FI, you want to remove as much exhaust gas as quickly as possible, which means as free flowing as possible. If we were talking about a normally aspirated engine, I would have a different answer for you. Different header TYPES will effect the torque curve differently, but you will never see a LOSS of TQ by making the exhaust system as free flowing as possible.
It is not possible to use the factory primary cats with the KLEEMANN headers- there's simply not enough room- the factory catalyst only represent a restriction, and this is one of the reasons the KLEEMANN headers perform so well- we are removing all of the major restrictions from the system.
We have a dyno of an SL55 with the K2 package I did not long ago- I don't see any loss in low end TQ- quite the opposite, actually- this car made 566 lb/ft. at the WHEELS at a mere 3000 RPM so we actually gained low-end torque, as the stock car's peak torque wasn't available until about 3400-3500 RPM.
Last edited by ArmoE55; Dec 16, 2011 at 02:07 PM.
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From: Northern VA
W211
If you want to keep your primary cats, you will need to purchase aftermarket cats. The OEM ones i dont think there will room for them. If you delete the primaries and use the downpipes provided,they will need to be welded, leaving your secondary cats in place. However, the rear o2 will get a CEL since the primary cats are no longer there. You can delete the rear o2s, but will not pass emissioins do to "emissions readiness monitors for the O2s", which will make you fail the emissions. Cory has a file that can trick the ECU to be in "ready mode".
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From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
If you want to keep your primary cats, you will need to purchase aftermarket cats. The OEM ones i dont think there will room for them. If you delete the primaries and use the downpipes provided,they will need to be welded, leaving your secondary cats in place. However, the rear o2 will get a CEL since the primary cats are no longer there. You can delete the rear o2s, but will not pass emissioins do to "emissions readiness monitors for the O2s", which will make you fail the emissions. Cory has a file that can trick the ECU to be in "ready mode".
How about the water pump ? i search and they are about $80 right ???
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From: Atlanta
2006 E55 AMG
You need to delete the primarys with the Kleeman headers, if your mechanic said no after seeing the headers and where the primarys are located, run from him as fast as you can.
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From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
I only delete primary cat and felt kinda too loud already. If you remove resonator and mufflers....... i doubt you can even hear music in the car.
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From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
Thread Starter
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From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
And yes, my Check Engine light came on after 40 miles drive. Need to send to Cory to re-program but since they are closed for holiday got to wait. Hope won't affect my car while driving with Check engine light On.
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3-five-five/ TUNDRA/ 07 997 cab
It wont, but I would get a tune now and you will notice a huge difference. I did on my CLS55.
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From: Socal, Chino
E55 2006 / CLS55 / S450 / Jag XKR2011
