Another RTR pulley failure
05-22-2012, 09:21 AM
#26
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This really sucks, but since I'm finally considering doing a crank pulley I have some questions.
How many WOT pulls is an aftermarket pulley supposed to last? What's the expected MTBF on any of this aftremarket tuner stuff? Were the WOT pulls down the dragstrip, down the road, or on a dyno? Does the type of WOT pull make any difference?
What seems weird is that the issue with the RTR pullies is them coming unattached, while other pulley suppliers that have had issues like VRP and early EC actually had physical pulley failures - pullies self-destructing.
I guess there's a reason to stick with proven pullies from real MB tuners like Renntech and Kleemann.
How many WOT pulls is an aftermarket pulley supposed to last? What's the expected MTBF on any of this aftremarket tuner stuff? Were the WOT pulls down the dragstrip, down the road, or on a dyno? Does the type of WOT pull make any difference?
What seems weird is that the issue with the RTR pullies is them coming unattached, while other pulley suppliers that have had issues like VRP and early EC actually had physical pulley failures - pullies self-destructing.
I guess there's a reason to stick with proven pullies from real MB tuners like Renntech and Kleemann.
05-22-2012, 09:21 AM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
This really sucks, but since I'm finally considering doing a crank pulley I have some questions.
How many WOT pulls is an aftermarket pulley supposed to last? What's the expected MTBF on any of this aftremarket tuner stuff? Were the WOT pulls down the dragstrip, down the road, or on a dyno? Does the type of WOT pull make any difference?
What seems weird is that the issue with the RTR pullies is them coming unattached, while other pulley suppliers that have had issues like VRP and early EC actually had physical pulley failures - pullies self-destructing.
I guess there's a reason to stick with proven pullies from real MB tuners like Renntech and Kleemann.
How many WOT pulls is an aftermarket pulley supposed to last? What's the expected MTBF on any of this aftremarket tuner stuff? Were the WOT pulls down the dragstrip, down the road, or on a dyno? Does the type of WOT pull make any difference?
What seems weird is that the issue with the RTR pullies is them coming unattached, while other pulley suppliers that have had issues like VRP and early EC actually had physical pulley failures - pullies self-destructing.
I guess there's a reason to stick with proven pullies from real MB tuners like Renntech and Kleemann.
Thanks for voicing your opinion Steve(320dreamer), it really means alot to us. Since you were there Steve(320dreamer) and verified the change, these two vids below show the difference between a RTR 195mm pulley vs. ASP with aluminum outer pressed on 195mm.
When I showed you guys the RTR vid a couple weeks ago, I parked my car under a cover and left it, BIP then trailored it to their shop last week, took off the RTR pulley, and installed the ASP pulley per my instructions which was viewed by 320 dreamer. Nothing else was changed at all.
RTR 195mm vid, notice the extreme wobble:
ASP 195mm vid, wobble is cut way down, given my crank snout is now ovaled due to the damage, but you can see the difference between the two designs:
http://s1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee509/BIP28/Random%20Stuff/?action=view¤t=GOPR0746.mp4
Last edited by chawkins2001; 05-22-2012 at 10:21 AM.
05-22-2012, 09:56 AM
#28
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Dirt Scooters
The pulley was inspected by a mechanical engineer as well as a company that makes pulleys and their own engineer and all came to the same conclusion. They also had a stock pulley for comparison FYI. Too bad i didn't get it checked out before installing it but thats what happens when you trust someone and they mislead you.....
05-22-2012, 11:28 AM
#30
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05-22-2012, 12:42 PM
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Nuts N Bolts , Nuts N Bolts - We're Screwed
Well after I've read all the Threads & Posts on HB installs and Looking at my own experiences. It is fairly obvious the larger drive pulleys that are currently popular , Have exceeded the design & intended application.
The Clamping effect ? load of the bolt head underside and the pressure against the oil pump Sprocket is well exceeded.
Well after I've read all the Threads & Posts on HB installs and Looking at my own experiences. It is fairly obvious the larger drive pulleys that are currently popular , Have exceeded the design & intended application.
The Clamping effect ? load of the bolt head underside and the pressure against the oil pump Sprocket is well exceeded.
So what's the optimal "safe" size? Has PTE or anyone else ever opined on this?
05-22-2012, 12:48 PM
#32
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E55 w/ goods, Z32 Project underway
Peace of mind goes a long ways and this pulley should be given people out there fits every time they start their car. If I had this pulley on my car it would have been removed a long time ago and credit card disputes initiated. Unless buyers are waiting on the sellers to offer a crankshaft group buy. Don't wait until your another statistic because there appears to be no warning. Once it is gone, so is your motor it appears.
05-22-2012, 12:49 PM
#33
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Dirt Scooters
I did, and you said:
So I went back and found PTE's conclusion that the problem is that pullies have become too large:
So I guess the problem with RTRs is that they're too large, but I can't find a post that states what the largest pulley size is that as PTE says, has not "exceeded the design & intended application."
So what's the optimal "safe" size? Has PTE or anyone else ever opined on this?
So I went back and found PTE's conclusion that the problem is that pullies have become too large:
So I guess the problem with RTRs is that they're too large, but I can't find a post that states what the largest pulley size is that as PTE says, has not "exceeded the design & intended application."
So what's the optimal "safe" size? Has PTE or anyone else ever opined on this?
05-22-2012, 01:16 PM
#34
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Well I won't being buying a RTR pulley anytime soon, but I didn't see in any of the PTE posts (or other engineers for that matter) that the problem was the HB, but whatever. PTE's explanation makes sense and he sure describes it like it's really a size related issue, so what's the consensus on max safe size?
05-22-2012, 01:28 PM
#36
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2004 sl55
Brooke and Shardul would rather faulk out a monthly sponsoring fee to control what is said, than rather pull all these puppies off the market, pay for the damages they have caused, and stand behind their product. They still believe that Steve and I installed them wrong, lmfao, based on what the OP said above about clamping force.
What are you going to do now moderators, another member has come forward, you still going to protect your sponsor??
Who did you buy the pulley from OP?
What are you going to do now moderators, another member has come forward, you still going to protect your sponsor??
Who did you buy the pulley from OP?
05-22-2012, 01:37 PM
#37
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Well at least I know what not to buy. This is also reason enough for me not to go through EC Tuning. Might as well get everything piece by piece. Either ASP or Kleemann pulley then do an OE tune. Besides, they've never steered me wrong on any of my cars.
05-22-2012, 01:40 PM
#38
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2004 sl55
Well I haven't spoken with EC about this yet. I wanted to get all the facts first and not be 'emotional' when I talked to Jerry. In the past he's been a good guy and taken care of everything. Lets give him the chance before we blast EC.
05-22-2012, 01:46 PM
#39
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Jerry and Jake are good guys, and I know that Eurocharged will help you makes things right, unlike Brooke and Redtooth Racing who will force you to prove their product is bad, even after all that has happened. Distributors can be held liable too, just like the manufacturer, and EC would not want to deal with this mess, so they will be on your side.
Their customer service is top notch!!!!
Last edited by chawkins2001; 05-22-2012 at 01:49 PM.
05-22-2012, 01:48 PM
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
Fair enough, but all these stories have me spooked on performance parts for the 55. The 32 didn't have this problem...at least not nearly as bad.
05-22-2012, 02:20 PM
#41
Out Of Control!!
OE is responsible for blown motors too fyi. And if you think they will help you after a blown motor you're in for a surprise.
Last edited by blackbenzz; 05-22-2012 at 02:23 PM.
05-22-2012, 02:28 PM
#42
SPONSOR
PM sent to OP.
Until a final decision is made on these pulleys we will stop selling them.
ASP makes the RTR style pulley so it is an ASP pulley that ASP supports / backs.
Will keep everyone posted on the updates.
Until a final decision is made on these pulleys we will stop selling them.
ASP makes the RTR style pulley so it is an ASP pulley that ASP supports / backs.
Will keep everyone posted on the updates.
05-22-2012, 02:35 PM
#43
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05-22-2012, 02:39 PM
#45
ur best and safest bet is kleemann pulley and tune or kleemann pulley and EC tune. the kleemann pulley from what i have read is almost identical to the oem one. kleemann or EC tunes FTW
05-22-2012, 03:00 PM
#46
MBWorld Fanatic!
Sorry and sad to see another AMG get bit by the RTR pulley. IF its true that ASP is making the RTR pulleys, then maybe go straight to them to get some compensation $$$.
05-22-2012, 03:21 PM
#47
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I have a hard time believing that ASP is making the RTR pullies. Though I suppose anything is possible; I have heard that ASP will take any companies design and build it to the designers specs.
Regardless, I'm sorry to see this happening to so many. Pathetic.
Regardless, I'm sorry to see this happening to so many. Pathetic.
05-22-2012, 03:25 PM
#48
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2010 E350, 2011 ML350, 2003 996TT
I think Jerry means that ASP makes a pulley like RTRs, not that they make RTRs. He also indicates that the ASP pulley has the ASP backing so less worries than trying the RTR. Right Jerry?
05-22-2012, 03:35 PM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hold on a second, you are saying that the pulley that was sent to the OP was maded by ASP, which is the OEM MB hub with the aluminum outer ring pressed on and pinned to the OEM hub?
This ASP style pulley does not allow for the adjustable boost feature.
The RTR has bolts attaching the aluminum outer ring to a non MB hub, these bolts can be unscrewed and a different size ring bolted on.
Which one did you have on your car, does it look like this:
This ASP style pulley does not allow for the adjustable boost feature.
The RTR has bolts attaching the aluminum outer ring to a non MB hub, these bolts can be unscrewed and a different size ring bolted on.
Which one did you have on your car, does it look like this:
Last edited by chawkins2001; 05-22-2012 at 03:43 PM.
