E55 Down
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
Normally the bigger issue is running to little timing which causes egt's to sky rocket big time and heat transferred to the heads and to the pistons can cause decent damage, even though it's at a somewhat slow pace when compared to detonation obviously.
A lot of heat can cause the piston rings to butt together and break a ring land, which to me is the single largest reason why these engine break as much as they do....more related to heat that detonation it's self.
Last edited by GT-ER; Jun 22, 2012 at 08:26 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Orange County, CA.
one car at a time
I don't see more than 19 * timing towards redline (but my tune is for 91). The factory tune saw similar timing (I logged when the car was 100% stock). I would rather go conservative on timing ( a few degrees) and leave a few hp on the table and be safer. Also from my experience with FI cars, you will make more power with more boost and less timing than the other way around....
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
I don't see more than 19 * timing towards redline (but my tune is for 91). The factory tune saw similar timing (I logged when the car was 100% stock). I would rather go conservative on timing ( a few degrees) and leave a few hp on the table and be safer. Also from my experience with FI cars, you will make more power with more boost and less timing than the other way around....
While high boost and low timing due tend to make more power than the other way around, the way the car puts the power to the ground is a lot smoother ( as can be seen on a dyno graph ) with high timing low boost. It makes the car pull smoother...but yes, it'll still be slower...lol.
And of course, as mentioned before, to low timing will cause high egt's which can kill your engine in the long run.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,659
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From: Atlanta
2006 E55 AMG
What happened to Dennis's car has nothing to do with the tune. Once all the facts are out in the open, it will be clear what the cause was.
I have chatted with the best in the industry about his car, some that know his car well, technically and mechanically. The events leading up to, and after the pull, will tell the story why the damage occured.
Hard facts will become apparent as the complete motor is examined.
I have chatted with the best in the industry about his car, some that know his car well, technically and mechanically. The events leading up to, and after the pull, will tell the story why the damage occured.
Hard facts will become apparent as the complete motor is examined.
Last edited by chawkins2001; Jun 22, 2012 at 09:12 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 22
From: Orange County, CA.
one car at a time
What happened to Dennis's car has nothing to do with the tune. Once all the facts are out in the open, it will be clear what the cause was.
I have chatted with the best in the industry about his car, some that know his car well, technically and mechanically. The events leading up to, and after the pull, will tell the story why the damage occured.
Hard facts will become apparent as the complete motor is examined.
I have chatted with the best in the industry about his car, some that know his car well, technically and mechanically. The events leading up to, and after the pull, will tell the story why the damage occured.
Hard facts will become apparent as the complete motor is examined.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,897
Likes: 85
From: Central WI (BFE)
SL55, ML500 & Acura TL
About mid to low 30's at part throttle, and it can vary a LOT depending on load and get into the mid 20's with ease. You'll see high teens low 20's at wot.
Normally the bigger issue is running to little timing which causes egt's to sky rocket big time and heat transferred to the heads and to the pistons can cause decent damage, even though it's at a somewhat slow pace when compared to detonation obviously.
A lot of heat can cause the piston rings to butt together and break a ring land, which to me is the single largest reason why these engine break as much as they do....more related to heat that detonation it's self.
Normally the bigger issue is running to little timing which causes egt's to sky rocket big time and heat transferred to the heads and to the pistons can cause decent damage, even though it's at a somewhat slow pace when compared to detonation obviously.
A lot of heat can cause the piston rings to butt together and break a ring land, which to me is the single largest reason why these engine break as much as they do....more related to heat that detonation it's self.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,597
Likes: 19
From: Kuwait
CLS55 2006, CLS 63S 2015
About mid to low 30's at part throttle, and it can vary a LOT depending on load and get into the mid 20's with ease. You'll see high teens low 20's at wot.
Normally the bigger issue is running to little timing which causes egt's to sky rocket big time and heat transferred to the heads and to the pistons can cause decent damage, even though it's at a somewhat slow pace when compared to detonation obviously.
A lot of heat can cause the piston rings to butt together and break a ring land, which to me is the single largest reason why these engine break as much as they do....more related to heat that detonation it's self.
Normally the bigger issue is running to little timing which causes egt's to sky rocket big time and heat transferred to the heads and to the pistons can cause decent damage, even though it's at a somewhat slow pace when compared to detonation obviously.
A lot of heat can cause the piston rings to butt together and break a ring land, which to me is the single largest reason why these engine break as much as they do....more related to heat that detonation it's self.
ARF
part throttle:
WOT:
Timing
part throttle:
WOT:
EGT:
part throttle:
WOT:
add what ever else you feel relevant
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,879
Likes: 22
From: Orange County, CA.
one car at a time
I am not monitoring EGT on my e55, so I cannot comment.
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: Sumwhere in TEXAS
2005 E55 AMG....Speed is Relaxin'
Sorry to hear about E55 down.
I live in Austin and have MODs
On my E55 too. Patrick is my mechanic.
Great with diagnostics, repairs, and a
HONEST guy too. GOOD LUCK !!!
I live in Austin and have MODs
On my E55 too. Patrick is my mechanic.
Great with diagnostics, repairs, and a
HONEST guy too. GOOD LUCK !!!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
There is a bit more to it than this, but you generally run in two conditions : open and closed loop. Under 'Open loop' your ECU is trying to keep the AFR ~14.7 :1 . Timing seems to vary based upon load and RPM, but I generally see ~5- 8 degrees to 24 degrees. Under 'Closed loop' (when you are beyond X% TPS and bringing on boost, you will likely see your AFRs go from lean ~14.7 down to 10.XX @ redline on a stock tune. Again, timing varies, but with mine I see ~19* at redline.
I am not monitoring EGT on my e55, so I cannot comment.
I am not monitoring EGT on my e55, so I cannot comment.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
Yes, it can. I began by lowering engine coolant to 190ish deg by modifying the thermostat. I also run almost all water ( very little coolant ).
INTERESTINGGGGGG....
What happened to Dennis's car has nothing to do with the tune. Once all the facts are out in the open, it will be clear what the cause was.
I have chatted with the best in the industry about his car, some that know his car well, technically and mechanically. The events leading up to, and after the pull, will tell the story why the damage occured.
Hard facts will become apparent as the complete motor is examined.
I have chatted with the best in the industry about his car, some that know his car well, technically and mechanically. The events leading up to, and after the pull, will tell the story why the damage occured.
Hard facts will become apparent as the complete motor is examined.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,897
Likes: 85
From: Central WI (BFE)
SL55, ML500 & Acura TL
[quote=GT-ER;5252110]Yes, it can. I began by lowering engine coolant to 190ish deg by modifying the thermostat. I also run almost all water ( very little coolant ).
The reason I ask is because I, unlike many run my secondary HE through the engine cooling system. I know I could get lower IATs by isolating, but it seems to me a modified engine is producing more heat and it needs to be delt with. I don't know much about engines. My business is anodizing and we use 2.5 million gallons of water per month. As such, I know a bit about the properties of water. Water can absorb way more heat than coolant as you know. If you are using distilled water, keep in mind that water is a universal solvent. In the pure state, it loves to dissolve whatever in can, like the metal in your cooling system. you need some corrosion protection. Hopefully the little bit of coolant is providing that. Definitely add a surfactant to reduce the hydrogen bonding or surface tension. Water wetter products do work. They are just surfactants. They allow better surface contact and therefore improved heat absorption.
The reason I ask is because I, unlike many run my secondary HE through the engine cooling system. I know I could get lower IATs by isolating, but it seems to me a modified engine is producing more heat and it needs to be delt with. I don't know much about engines. My business is anodizing and we use 2.5 million gallons of water per month. As such, I know a bit about the properties of water. Water can absorb way more heat than coolant as you know. If you are using distilled water, keep in mind that water is a universal solvent. In the pure state, it loves to dissolve whatever in can, like the metal in your cooling system. you need some corrosion protection. Hopefully the little bit of coolant is providing that. Definitely add a surfactant to reduce the hydrogen bonding or surface tension. Water wetter products do work. They are just surfactants. They allow better surface contact and therefore improved heat absorption.
Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 229
Likes: 2
From: Glendale, CA
93' Ultrasonic Blue Mica LS6/T56 RX7 R1 weekend/ 2007 4Runner V8/ 08' prius
How many knock sensors does the E55 engine use to monitor knock? Are the knock sensors still used after a tune to advance and retard timing due to conditions read by the sensor or is the timing a fixed value that is set by the tuner.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 27
From: A to the Z (the state)
'06 E55
I have a guy (Scott) who offered to drive to Austin and tow it back to Houston as long as I paid for the trailer. He wouldn't even let me cover the gas money. I'm not sure if he posts here, but he definitely deserves to be recognized for his awesome act of kindness. 
I found a local engine in Houston that is getting picked up on Saturday and M-Power is the shop doing the swap. I've ordered the Dashdaq and appropriate sensors to be installed also. Big thanks to many in Houston, especially Shardul for being a kick-*** middle man, collecting money, receiving parts, etc. this headache would be a definite migraine without the help.
I don't know how long the swap will take, but I'm going to fly in and then drive back to NOLA after another crazy weekend in Houston. Looking forward to it.
I found a local engine in Houston that is getting picked up on Saturday and M-Power is the shop doing the swap. I've ordered the Dashdaq and appropriate sensors to be installed also. Big thanks to many in Houston, especially Shardul for being a kick-*** middle man, collecting money, receiving parts, etc. this headache would be a definite migraine without the help.
I don't know how long the swap will take, but I'm going to fly in and then drive back to NOLA after another crazy weekend in Houston. Looking forward to it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,558
Likes: 8
From: Sacramento, CA
Ducati
I have a guy (Scott) who offered to drive to Austin and tow it back to Houston as long as I paid for the trailer. He wouldn't even let me cover the gas money. I'm not sure if he posts here, but he definitely deserves to be recognized for his awesome act of kindness.
I found a local engine in Houston that is getting picked up on Saturday and M-Power is the shop doing the swap. I've ordered the Dashdaq and appropriate sensors to be installed also. Big thanks to many in Houston, especially Shardul for being a kick-*** middle man, collecting money, receiving parts, etc. this headache would be a definite migraine without the help.
I don't know how long the swap will take, but I'm going to fly in and then drive back to NOLA after another crazy weekend in Houston. Looking forward to it.
I found a local engine in Houston that is getting picked up on Saturday and M-Power is the shop doing the swap. I've ordered the Dashdaq and appropriate sensors to be installed also. Big thanks to many in Houston, especially Shardul for being a kick-*** middle man, collecting money, receiving parts, etc. this headache would be a definite migraine without the help.
I don't know how long the swap will take, but I'm going to fly in and then drive back to NOLA after another crazy weekend in Houston. Looking forward to it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 7
From: Puerto Rico
2005 E55 AMG
Two sensors and yes, it does read and correct during full throttle runs.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,582
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From: Lafayette, IN
2008 ML63 2009 SL63 2010 Alpha 7 GTR
Damn man, that majorly sucks. Esp. during a big trip. You have a point OP, I don't know what i would do without the kind people here either, Shardul, Outrun, Abrim, E55bullet, ALL good guys, who've helped me before. Good luck with the rebuild/replace game, can get really frustrating
always here to help! Good luck sir!
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 27
From: A to the Z (the state)
'06 E55
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
E55 AMG
This is all I read:
the new motor is here...
Let us know, and when you get back to San Diego, we will need to meet up
Cool on the Houston Guys
Cool On Jerry
Cool on Scott....
I can hardly wait to see the conclusion of this story:
Better - Stronger - Faster!!!
the new motor is here...
Let us know, and when you get back to San Diego, we will need to meet up
Cool on the Houston Guys
Cool On Jerry
Cool on Scott....
I can hardly wait to see the conclusion of this story:
Better - Stronger - Faster!!!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,167
Likes: 19
From: London, UK
No longer stock '06 E55, A3 3.2 Quattro, GLE 400d, R107 280SL, Golf Polo
On the new motor dial back the boost a notch ... fit an OEM pulley and keep the smaller S/C pulley in place...
I think these 190+ pulleys (or effectively 190+) are just reaching a bit too far for reliability....
Have to say half throttle in 5th is still allot of load on the cylinder as the gearing means the pressure has a long duration in this scenario ... its better to have motor spinning faster so the instantaneous pulses may be higher but the durations much shorter... dunno just a thought?
Could be allot of things - mbe even damage done before only manifesting now ...
Good to see u getting her back to good as new
I think these 190+ pulleys (or effectively 190+) are just reaching a bit too far for reliability....
Have to say half throttle in 5th is still allot of load on the cylinder as the gearing means the pressure has a long duration in this scenario ... its better to have motor spinning faster so the instantaneous pulses may be higher but the durations much shorter... dunno just a thought?
Could be allot of things - mbe even damage done before only manifesting now ...
Good to see u getting her back to good as new
