Ted Baldwin

......I'm not sure how to answer since for every situation there is probably someone that has exceeded it. I too have logged more than 16lbs of boost on my G55. At this boost level, it beat a ZR1 to the quarter mile in a half mile race. But it started misbehaving later one. Everyone should just listen to Weistec themselves. Weistec acknowledges that there have been people have Mage similar power on stock s/c with various mods. They are selling their s/c as a reliable upper 500's whp modification. Since you dont like my explanation, why are those installing Weistec doing so with stock crank pulley? Why not use a 195mm pulley together with a stage 2 Weistec?

Ted


Ted

urbamworm

195=to many Clydesdales and engine go kaplooey?

gaspam

there is nothing to answer to me lol i didnt ask you a question

you do what you want and other's will push the envelope.

yes weistec is advertising this as a upper 500whp mod... doesnt mean other people with built engines arent going to come along and push the platform further with this mod by some tweaking (i am looking at you e55amgrocket)

e55amgrocket

If I had the weistec I'd for sure be looking to start over 20psi. I'd be happy with 850rwhp on boost.

PACougar

17 psi max according to Weistec, ya right. 17 psi is the starting point!

Weistec

Let us rephrase... 17psi given you are running a stock bottom end and fuel system.

Weistec Engineering

PACougar

That seems like a artificial number you created. I'd be happy to try for more on a stock bottom end! What do you believe is the max boost the SC can support on the engines?

e55amgrocket

I've seen 30psi before on a 3.4l whipple and I ran 26psi myself in the past. Whipple says 15-30psi max so I would think around 25-26 would be the sweet spot.

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

the C32 has the same MAP sensor as E55 and all the C32's with 185mm pulley are seeing 22psi without any problems.

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

i have a question for experts, can the AMG N/A piston rings like CLk55-C55 hold boost between 25 and 30psi with lower compression like 8.5:1(static)? i have this situation on my car now! thanks

e55amgrocket

Well I just found out the compression ratio is right around 8.0:1 depending on what the deck height is for the boosted motors. If you can CC the dish on one of the n/a pistons we could see what the CR is. As for your question that's a good one. 99% of that come down to the tune. You could also take the e55 style pistons and open the ring gap up and not have nearly as many problems but most failures I have seen isn't the ring land failure. It's because it gets hot and torches the top ring land causing it to break. Same would happen with a forged piston so you can't blame the piston on a bad tune.

Ted Baldwin

.......I agree completely that those with built engines have an opportunity to tweak things with the Weistec s/c. I've been saying that already. Even thought that BIP with their built engines can partner with Weistec and their s/c. But if you read the rest of the thread you'll see that lots of people were chanting 800whp. The point I have been trying to get across is that because the Weistec s/c already operates at high boost compared to the stock s/c, there are limits. It the Weistec s/c made the 574whp at the same boost level as the stock s/c, then you have more room o work with. Hope that clears it up.


Ted

e55amgrocket

I understand what your saying and most will be happy with the power they get over a stock blower but for those wanting to make big power even on stock motors (until they blow) no doubt will be able to make 800hp. Your comparing a stock blower that is being over spun and well past it's efficiency zone at 15psi to a 3.0l blower that hasn't even come close at 17psi. These blowers are rated from 15-30psi. Around 23-26psi is a known sweet spot for these blowers and if its making 574rwhp at 17psi on a lightly modded car then yes it will make 800rwhp at 25psi. The problem is there's only a few cars out there that can handle 800hp and if they (weistec) can tune it safely at that level.

kustom2k1

8.0:1CR, impressive that without the blower the 55k still puts down 300hp with that CR.
I'd be interested in the cam specs for the 55k?

e55amgrocket

I don't know what the N/A motor is but the supercharged motors are right at 8.0:1 depending on what the deck height actually is. Stock E55 cam specs are .417 lift intake with 108 centerline and duration was 186.5 I want to say. Exhaust was .418 lift and 191 duration with 131 centerline. SLR cams are very similar with .417 intake lift but duration is around 182. Exhaust is .410 lift. If I remember correctly the overlap on the SLR cam is a little less than the E55 cams.

blackbenzz

When i get back we can cc an n/a piston but I'm sure it's higher compression than 55k as I've had them side by side and the dome is smaller on the na

e55amgrocket

I know it's higher but I'm wondering how much higher and how close the CR is to what they claim on that engine.

Ted Baldwin

......understood. I won't call the 564whp car lightly modded. It has 82 or 84mmtb I don't remember which one and full exhaust including headers plush the Weistec s/c. I won't call that lightly modded. I have fully built engine on my G55 and that can definitely handle higher boost. It's not really that simple. At higher boost, the map sensor started malfunctioning. We discussed using split seconds VC2 voltage clamp but abandoned the idea. With better running, more HP can definitely be extracted from the Weistec s/c plus higher boost. But I don't serve anywhere near 800whp. I think running has always been a problem on the Mercedes community. This is why none of the twin turbo projects ever came to fruition. Boost is boost, so if they couldn't tune it for tt, why is the sc any different. People are hitting a brick wall around 17psi. I in fact know from sources that Weistec did not stop at 17psi just for their own amusement.

Ted

Tech-Tune

The AMG N/A pistons have a higher CR than the Kompressor ones. I've read them advertised as 10.5:1, others state 11:1.
To answer your question: No, it cannot hold boost between 25-30psi. I've cracked two N/A pistons on two different motors on much less boost.

I've recently installed a set of MAHLE forged pistons in my current set up. I heard it ping hard on the dyno during tuning (was running 15lbs) and they stayed together. If they were cast, the skirts would have crumbled to bits.

BlownV8

Are you saying that if you removed the supercharger from an E55 Kompressor that it would produce 300 RWHP?

Capn

Well the M113K is based on the M113 which produces 275-300 rwhp so he's not far off.

kustom2k1

Sure blown, in that range. 469hp for the E 498hp SL 55k, take off the blower and 300hp sounds about right. 285 hp doing the math, to the wheels. Using the 15% rule.

Thanks for the cam specs.

e55amgrocket

I remember speedriven saying something about the map sensor wouldn't be a problem past 17psi but didn't hear anything after that. I myself haven't seen 17psi even with the 195 pulley but i have some very good ported heads helping that out as well and the surge tanks and intake runners all ported to match. I've never liked MAP clamps so hopefully they can figure out a solution to that problem. As for the power they can make with that resolved i will give you a perfect example of a 2.9L whipple on a 4.6L that a friend has that my buddy actually helped build everything. Stock long block with all the normal bolt-on's at 15psi on 93/110 mixed gas it made 633 with timing at 18 degrees. They swapped pulleys and started on a E85 tune. Boost was at 21-21.5lbs and it made 771hp at 22 degrees of timing with the only changes being pump/race gas mix to E85,6 more lbs of boost and 4 degrees of timing. Theres a 2.9L whipple 5.4L shelby that races our local 1/8th mile track that makes 750hp and he's at 18lbs of boost on race gas. If they can figure out the MAP problem and put together some aggressive tunes for race gas you will see some big numbers.

blackbenzz

Different compression ratio. Ever driven a 55k when SC is disengaged? Not 300whp

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

MB say:
55K and 32K CR=9
55N/A 2002 and below CR=10.5
55N/A 2003 and up CR=11
112 and 113 non AMG CR=10

But what was the CR(static) of your engine when the piston cracked?