Killer Chiller installed / heat exchanger removed = 50 degree IATS !
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Really? That's crazy cause I've Never seen above 140 and my cooling is stock.( except when I had a weak pump) And that's with a much bigger pull than you had done maybe up to 130, where you only went from 30-85, that's like what a few seconds. Don't get me wrong I really like the KC but something seems out of wack for it to jump that much in such a short time. ....
Last edited by Shifter; Apr 20, 2013 at 03:18 AM.
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Really? That's crazy cause I've Never seen above 140 and my cooling is stock.( except when I had a weak pump) And that's with a much bigger pull than you had done maybe up to 130, where you only went from 30-85, that's like what a few seconds. Don't get me wrong I really like the KC but something seems out of wack for it to jump that much in such a short time. ....
With the KC, your IATs should be kept below 140 even with much larger pulleys. Are you running your pump all the time or is it still just the stock setup (only on when WOT) ?
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My pump is running 100% of the time actually. Most passes I have made it will go from around 60 IAT to 120s to 130s on a good run. Even on 0-115 MPH runs. Not sure why that one run spiked so high so quickly.
I am thinking I really need an upgraded pump like the WP136 with over 2X the flow. Its not like my water gets hot that quickly so it does seem like the IC cant keep up. Water being cool is all that matters otherwise.
I still wonder if I should have maybe tried it with the stock HE just to have more cool water plus a HE on longer pulls. Even with water temps 10 degrees higher . Joe Kincaid says to get rid of the stock HE as do many others
Will try a new pump first. Other than that a larger volume of water or meth will be in order.
I am thinking I really need an upgraded pump like the WP136 with over 2X the flow. Its not like my water gets hot that quickly so it does seem like the IC cant keep up. Water being cool is all that matters otherwise.
I still wonder if I should have maybe tried it with the stock HE just to have more cool water plus a HE on longer pulls. Even with water temps 10 degrees higher . Joe Kincaid says to get rid of the stock HE as do many others
Will try a new pump first. Other than that a larger volume of water or meth will be in order.
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Dllhg - how is your KC plumbed? It really matters where it is setup in the chain to maximize performance. Also, how much did they charge your AC since its sensitive to that too.
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Not sure, it was installed for me by someone who has done a few. Water is getting ice cold, well 42 degrees anyway. I'll try and get a better idea tomorrow. He gave my AC some extra gas to help compensate. My AC runs nice and cold and the water/IATs drop very quickly when its on. The only thing I can think of is its not getting enough water flowing to the IC core to keep up. The upgraded pump should take care of that.
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Not sure, it was installed for me by someone who has done a few. Water is getting ice cold, well 42 degrees anyway. I'll try and get a better idea tomorrow. He gave my AC some extra gas to help compensate. My AC runs nice and cold and the water/IATs drop very quickly when its on. The only thing I can think of is its not getting enough water flowing to the IC core to keep up. The upgraded pump should take care of that.
I think what you need to do is log both the water temperature and the IATs and determine how hot your water is getting towards the end of a run. This will help lead you in the right direction....
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I just ordered a Meizure pump. I really dont think its the water temp just because of how fast the IAT drops as soon as I let off. I am not saying that isnt part of it but I think I have a bigger problem. I dont have a gauge for water temp. I did do a hard WOT run and shut the system off . Pulled over and the water wasnt too warm. Without knowing what the water temp really is during these runs it would be hard to tell.
If it is in fact a water issue I think I will need to look into a bigger tank, perhaps a 5 gallon instead of my 2.5 gal. what does a stock HE hold anyway ? I know my water temps will go up 10 degrees but with the extra capacity and functional HE on long runs maybe it would help. I dont think 52 degree water Vs 42 will make all that much difference.
Hoping the new pump makes a noticeable difference. The whole reason I got the Chiller was to avoid having to do Methanol and upgraded HE etc. Was trying to get the best thing I could get and not mess around. Dont get me wrong this Chiller is still amazing for most of the driving I do. I just dont think I should ever see IATs over 130 unless its running for well over 10 seconds. Maybe that 160 was a fluke. Having IATs from 48-60 almost every time I get on it is pretty cool.
If it is in fact a water issue I think I will need to look into a bigger tank, perhaps a 5 gallon instead of my 2.5 gal. what does a stock HE hold anyway ? I know my water temps will go up 10 degrees but with the extra capacity and functional HE on long runs maybe it would help.
I dont think 52 degree water Vs 42 will make all that much difference. Hoping the new pump makes a noticeable difference. The whole reason I got the Chiller was to avoid having to do Methanol and upgraded HE etc. Was trying to get the best thing I could get and not mess around. Dont get me wrong this Chiller is still amazing for most of the driving I do. I just dont think I should ever see IATs over 130 unless its running for well over 10 seconds. Maybe that 160 was a fluke. Having IATs from 48-60 almost every time I get on it is pretty cool.
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I just ordered a Meizure pump. I really dont think its the water temp just because of how fast the IAT drops as soon as I let off. I am not saying that isnt part of it but I think I have a bigger problem. I dont have a gauge for water temp. I did do a hard WOT run and shut the system off . Pulled over and the water wasnt too warm. Without knowing what the water temp really is during these runs it would be hard to tell.
If it is in fact a water issue I think I will need to look into a bigger tank, perhaps a 5 gallon instead of my 2.5 gal. what does a stock HE hold anyway ? I know my water temps will go up 10 degrees but with the extra capacity and functional HE on long runs maybe it would help. I dont think 52 degree water Vs 42 will make all that much difference.
Hoping the new pump makes a noticeable difference. The whole reason I got the Chiller was to avoid having to do Methanol and upgraded HE etc. Was trying to get the best thing I could get and not mess around. Dont get me wrong this Chiller is still amazing for most of the driving I do. I just dont think I should ever see IATs over 130 unless its running for well over 10 seconds. Maybe that 160 was a fluke. Having IATs from 48-60 almost every time I get on it is pretty cool.
If it is in fact a water issue I think I will need to look into a bigger tank, perhaps a 5 gallon instead of my 2.5 gal. what does a stock HE hold anyway ? I know my water temps will go up 10 degrees but with the extra capacity and functional HE on long runs maybe it would help.
I dont think 52 degree water Vs 42 will make all that much difference. Hoping the new pump makes a noticeable difference. The whole reason I got the Chiller was to avoid having to do Methanol and upgraded HE etc. Was trying to get the best thing I could get and not mess around. Dont get me wrong this Chiller is still amazing for most of the driving I do. I just dont think I should ever see IATs over 130 unless its running for well over 10 seconds. Maybe that 160 was a fluke. Having IATs from 48-60 almost every time I get on it is pretty cool.
Ideally you would size your water tank / reservoir and whether you use a heat exchanger with a thermometer-based bypass valve based upon the types of runs you plan on doing. If you add the larger pump to your existing setup, you will be making your problem worse.
If you are going to just do 1/4 mile type driving, then you should not have the heat exchanger and you should base the tank size on how hot the water is getting. IIRC, Joe recommends a 3 - 5 gallon tank for most applications.
If you are doing road racing type of experience, then the KC really is not the best setup and you should have a really nice heat exchanger and a split system.
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Sorry, but you are making a mistake and don't understand thermodynamics.
Ideally you would size your water tank / reservoir and whether you use a heat exchanger with a thermometer-based bypass valve based upon the types of runs you plan on doing. If you add the larger pump to your existing setup, you will be making your problem worse.
If you are going to just do 1/4 mile type driving, then you should not have the heat exchanger and you should base the tank size on how hot the water is getting. IIRC, Joe recommends a 3 - 5 gallon tank for most applications.
If you are doing road racing type of experience, then the KC really is not the best setup and you should have a really nice heat exchanger and a split system.
Ideally you would size your water tank / reservoir and whether you use a heat exchanger with a thermometer-based bypass valve based upon the types of runs you plan on doing. If you add the larger pump to your existing setup, you will be making your problem worse.
If you are going to just do 1/4 mile type driving, then you should not have the heat exchanger and you should base the tank size on how hot the water is getting. IIRC, Joe recommends a 3 - 5 gallon tank for most applications.
If you are doing road racing type of experience, then the KC really is not the best setup and you should have a really nice heat exchanger and a split system.
Isnt it possible that the water is not able to go through fast enough and keep up with the heat being produced ? The fast drop in IATs when I let off tells me that the water isnt getting that hot but perhaps I am mistaken.
IATs drop like 50 degrees in a few seconds. Killer Chiller doesnt cool the water that fast. Perhaps you are right though in which case I should be investing in a rear tank or meth possibly. I thought the 2.5 gal tank would be big enough
Hell I might just go meth route before getting a larger tank so I can have nice cool IATs on start and let the meth keep it cool up top.what do you think it would do if I put the stock He back into the system ? Would have more water volume and a backup method to cool water up top. I would also lose about 10 degrees in water temp.
I emailed Joe Kincaid about this whole issue and never heard back from him.
Last edited by dllhg; Apr 21, 2013 at 03:05 PM.
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Seem like most people upgrade to that pump in here and have good results. I read a recent thread where I guy went from a upgraded bosh like I have to the Meizure and he was getting a quicker recovery time and lower IATs by about 8 degrees if I recall.
Isnt it possible that the water is not able to go through fast enough and keep up with the heat being produced ? The fast drop in IATs when I let off tells me that the water isnt getting that hot but perhaps I am mistaken. IATs drop like 50 degrees in a few seconds. Killer Chiller doesnt cool the water that fast.
Perhaps you are right though in which case I should be investing in a rear tank or meth possibly. I thought the 2.5 gal tank would be big enough Hell I might just go meth route before getting a larger tank so I can have nice cool IATs on start and let the meth keep it cool up top.
what do you think it would do if I put the stock He back into the system ? Would have more water volume and a backup method to cool water up top. I would also lose about 10 degrees in water temp.
I emailed Joe Kincaid about this whole issue and never heard back from him.
Isnt it possible that the water is not able to go through fast enough and keep up with the heat being produced ? The fast drop in IATs when I let off tells me that the water isnt getting that hot but perhaps I am mistaken.
IATs drop like 50 degrees in a few seconds. Killer Chiller doesnt cool the water that fast. Perhaps you are right though in which case I should be investing in a rear tank or meth possibly. I thought the 2.5 gal tank would be big enough
Hell I might just go meth route before getting a larger tank so I can have nice cool IATs on start and let the meth keep it cool up top.what do you think it would do if I put the stock He back into the system ? Would have more water volume and a backup method to cool water up top. I would also lose about 10 degrees in water temp.
I emailed Joe Kincaid about this whole issue and never heard back from him.
Folks use the larger pumps when they are using heat exchangers (or multiple HEs) and not the KC setup. In those scenarios, generally the outside air passing across the HE is cooler than the water, after a run or two, and so those folks are trying to pass as much water across the HE to keep it cool and thus cool the IC and compressed air.
Hope this helps....
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If you run both the KC and the front mount heat exchanger, the 2 systems are fighting each other. The KC is cooling the water below ambient, and the HX is constantly trying to pull the water temps to ambient.
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Bingo...I don't think he understands how the complete system works.
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You are taking things out of context and just don't appear to understand thermodynamics at all. For example, take an ice cold rag and quickly pass it on a hot surface - do it fast enough and the hot surface will still be super hot, go a lot slower and the hot surface will become cooler and the cold rag will become warmer. For KC setups, I would actually test slowing the flow / water pump, rather than increasing the speed, because the water is so very cold compared to the IC.
Folks use the larger pumps when they are using heat exchangers (or multiple HEs) and not the KC setup. In those scenarios, generally the outside air passing across the HE is cooler than the water, after a run or two, and so those folks are trying to pass as much water across the HE to keep it cool and thus cool the IC and compressed air.
Hope this helps....
Folks use the larger pumps when they are using heat exchangers (or multiple HEs) and not the KC setup. In those scenarios, generally the outside air passing across the HE is cooler than the water, after a run or two, and so those folks are trying to pass as much water across the HE to keep it cool and thus cool the IC and compressed air.
Hope this helps....
If you run the same fluid too slowly it could also be counter productive. You have to have enough but not too much. You may be correct that it hurts but it still seems it may help if in fact it is a little too slow. I think you are probably correct. Hate to go through the hassle of buying and putting the new pump in only to have little or no change in temps. Its not to late for me to cancel the order if I do it by tonight. ould put that money towards a higher volume tank or meth kit.
I am going to go get a temp sensor and just run it through the lid and my window so I can at least know what the water temps are really doing. If the water temps are still cool what would that tell you ? Good HE with good pumps and rear tanks are able to keep IATs down. They do that by trying to get the water temp to ambient. If my water temps dont go over ambient or much over doesnt that mean I have a potential flow issue ? What else could it be at that point ?
Obviously the IC core is a crappy design but apples to apples
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On my GTO I used my heater core to chill the water and still used my HE. It only dropped my water down to about 65 degrees. It did however get rid of all my heat soak issues I had. Also got rid of my heater though ... Ran 12 passes at the track in 2 hours and my MPH stayed exactly the same from beginning to end. Let the car sit with fans on for 40 minutes and it didn't increase my MPH at all. time before this I was trying to use ice etc and my times were all over the place. I would gain 2 MPH with lots of ice and so on. Was a real PITA. This is why I was wondering if maybe I should have kept it. I wonder if anyone has data to back up it being more efficient with no HE at the track VS with HE and +10 water temps.
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Which charger did you have on the Gto?
Yeah I understand that. I was just thinking about the added volume of water might outweigh the issue you mentioned above. What I have heard is it gets the water down to around 52 instead of my current 42 degrees.
On my GTO I used my heater core to chill the water and still used my HE. It only dropped my water down to about 65 degrees. It did however get rid of all my heat soak issues I had. Also got rid of my heater though ... Ran 12 passes at the track in 2 hours and my MPH stayed exactly the same from beginning to end. Let the car sit with fans on for 40 minutes and it didn't increase my MPH at all. time before this I was trying to use ice etc and my times were all over the place. I would gain 2 MPH with lots of ice and so on. Was a real PITA. This is why I was wondering if maybe I should have kept it. I wonder if anyone has data to back up it being more efficient with no HE at the track VS with HE and +10 water temps.
On my GTO I used my heater core to chill the water and still used my HE. It only dropped my water down to about 65 degrees. It did however get rid of all my heat soak issues I had. Also got rid of my heater though ... Ran 12 passes at the track in 2 hours and my MPH stayed exactly the same from beginning to end. Let the car sit with fans on for 40 minutes and it didn't increase my MPH at all. time before this I was trying to use ice etc and my times were all over the place. I would gain 2 MPH with lots of ice and so on. Was a real PITA. This is why I was wondering if maybe I should have kept it. I wonder if anyone has data to back up it being more efficient with no HE at the track VS with HE and +10 water temps.
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I have the WP136 pump with my KC and meth setup and don't think you will see a real diff. Now that I run a 195 I almost feel the WP136 maybe push the water through the KC too fast. Looks like you can test my theory on if a smaller pump may work best for me.
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This place is a joke.
I've been thinking to run a type of KC setup for the track, to drop my temps while waiting in line or between runs- at that point with no air flowing over the HE, you can start off cooler and then let the HE take over once you start your 1/4 pull...Last night was 64F out and by the time I pulled into the burnout box I was looking at 105F IAT's.. My IATs topped out at 145F by the end of the run.
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I wouldnt say I dont understand it at all If you run the same fluid too slowly it could also be counter productive. You have to have enough but not too much. You may be correct that it hurts but it still seems it may help if in fact it is a little too slow. I think you are probably correct. Hate to go through the hassle of buying and putting the new pump in only to have little or no change in temps.
Its not to late for me to cancel the order if I do it by tonight. ould put that money towards a higher volume tank or meth kit.
I am going to go get a temp sensor and just run it through the lid and my window so I can at least know what the water temps are really doing. If the water temps are still cool what would that tell you ? Good HE with good pumps and rear tanks are able to keep IATs down. They do that by trying to get the water temp to ambient. If my water temps dont go over ambient or much over doesnt that mean I have a potential flow issue ? What else could it be at that point ?
Obviously the IC core is a crappy design but apples to apples
If you run the same fluid too slowly it could also be counter productive. You have to have enough but not too much. You may be correct that it hurts but it still seems it may help if in fact it is a little too slow. I think you are probably correct. Hate to go through the hassle of buying and putting the new pump in only to have little or no change in temps. Its not to late for me to cancel the order if I do it by tonight. ould put that money towards a higher volume tank or meth kit.
I am going to go get a temp sensor and just run it through the lid and my window so I can at least know what the water temps are really doing. If the water temps are still cool what would that tell you ? Good HE with good pumps and rear tanks are able to keep IATs down. They do that by trying to get the water temp to ambient. If my water temps dont go over ambient or much over doesnt that mean I have a potential flow issue ? What else could it be at that point ?
Obviously the IC core is a crappy design but apples to apples
(1) remove the heat exchanger
(2) install a thermometer in your tank or just have one handy and check the temperature immediately after a run
(3) based upon the temperature, consider a larger tank
Good luck!
