JT55

Saw the post on the E55 or the '01 Pors.TT. I've been doing the same wondering myself.
These are only my thoughts no wishes to start a flame.
I am coming out of a CLK55 that I took to the hilt it was featured in 3 Benzo magazines, - the NYAuto Show, LLCool J car show and the FunkFlex CarShow. It was supercharged, bodykit, brakes,HRE's, Fenders, Suspension, Stereo the works.
Still this car was never a sports car.
Sure I could beat the pants off any car straight line but I'll never forget nearly being killed following an M3 through the twisties at over 100. His car was like a razor - mine well...
I've had a deposit on an E55 for 1 1/2 yrs. and pushed it back three times. I want to love this car but I just don't. The styling snores me to sleep and for a "AMG Version" can we PLEEEZZZEE!!! get some dif. bodywork ,wheels (19's anyone) or something besides 4 pipes to stand out from a damn E500 sport.
This is the very reason I tore apart my CLK a damn 430 looks EXACTLY the same. So do all the Benz's AMG or not what is the deal with this.? Second why can't they make a real "sports car" - come on the BMW is a real drivers car - I've had both - its not even close. My 6 speed 540i was so much fun to drive it was ridiculous. I read the reviews of the E55 and its the same old story - steering, brakes, handling - all subpar to Audi RS6 or even the old M5 (read C&D's test) Why? Why can't we get a real sports sedan? or a manual?
I just can't buy this car -I know its going to cost me 30K to get it close to being "right" and it still won't be a sports car. So I'm looking for a TT or something - yet theres nothing out there in the 100Kor under race thats not a used car, or hideous (new M5) or another styling bore RS6) I'm getting nothing right now and waiting.... for the M6 maybe? or a real AMG sports car.

amg55

....and your dilemma is what?

Clearly you are not in the Mercedes or AMG target demographic.

Someone with as much 'experience' as you claim to have ought to have figured this out a long time ago.
MERCEDES DOES NOT BUILD SPORTS CARS.

MB makes sedans which are sporty and coupes which are sporty. But they are not sports cars in their DNA.

Do you want people at this forum to try to talk you into buying an MB, or to try to defend MB's choices as regards the products they choose to bring to market? That would be ridiculous and a waste of your time and ours.

You will never be happy with an MB because it's not what you're looking for. Modify a BMW, or get a Porsche TT, or get it together and join the big leagues and buy a Lambo or Ferrari.

Stephen04E55

In defense of JT 55, he does make a couple valid points. The E55 is not that distinctive in comparison to an E500 sport but he left out a few things. Of course you won't have a "V8 compressor" logo on the front fenders on the E500 sport or an AMG emblem on the decklid. Obviously, the main ingredient of the E55 is the horsepower under the hood and that will not bore you to death. Yeah, maybe a little more distinction would be nice, but if you line up beside an E500 at a stoplight.....you know the outcome. So, if you buy a 4 door sedan for its handling capabilities, then you are definitely in the wrong market with the E55. The car does o.k. in the handling department but it is not made to do the same thing as a BMW, Ferrari, or Porsche. I recently sold my Z06 in favor of the E55's comfort, utility of 4 doors, trunk space, and awesome power. In fact, I pick the car up tomorrow and I can hardly wait....even with the "lack of distinction." I love the fact that it is the fastest production 4 door sedan in the world!

MBE55AMG

Good to hear that, Stephen.

JT, if you don't like MB, get the TT... I don't see much comparison between the cars you had mentioned and the rating you placed on the MB side is... poor. Obviously you like the sportier types, and you don't like the MB looks, so... you know what my answer is...

amg55

I dunno, Stephens.

Look at the complaints listed:
1) CLK55 is not a sports car (who claimed that it is in the first place? It's a GT not a sports car)
2) CLK55 doesn't handle as well as an M3 (no MB does, probably never will, and MB makes no attempt to trump BMW in this area)
3) MB styling is boring (and this is news? Conservative styling is an MB trademark. MB leaves flash and dash to other manufacturers, take it or leave it)
4) "Why can't MB make a real sports car?" (Ummm...because that's not their niche. Most successful businesses find their niche and dominate it. MB has no interest in competing with Porsche on Porsche's turf)
5) "I can't buy an E55 because it would cost additional $30K to make it 'right'" (That's the whole problem with JT55's post. He wants MB to make something that MB has no interest in making. So who is 'wrong'? JT55 implies that the problem is with MB since they don't meet his goals. MB has been successful for a long time without people like JT55's money so obviously they know how to please a large consumer base. That's what irritates me about his post. His comments suggest that MB's focus is wrong because he doesn't like their products. I say JT55 is the one who is off base because he fails to recognize that he's shopping the wrong brand. The brand isn't going to change for him.

1115

JT, buy a SLR then u will stand out,if thats what u want.

ipaq123

So if Mercedes doesn't play at BMW's level and don't claim to compete with M5 in power, handling and braking then how come they are in a horsepower race with BMW?

bzliteyear

we've seen this movie before. as supply catches up to demand and the competition heats up over the next several years, MBs will continue to lose its prestige. already many people have already been disappointed w/ the workmanship and quality of the new MBs vs. the older ones. Heck, a $55k Lexus can put a $90k MB to shame on workmanship and quality of interior. Additionally, the resale value of MBs continue to fall. Already MBs have been lagging, but it's recently accelerated to the downside. When you see older products call 45% in 3 yrs, that may be ok...but when newer MB models fall 35% in 18 months(C32, S600 and CL600's), you start to wonder how the rest of the older lines will hold up over the next few years. I'm not complaining here...merely making a general observation about what I'm seeing. Good luck to MBs corporate and all the greedy dealers that try to gouge customers on the newer/AMG models.

AMG Fan

For someone that knows car as well as you claim to, you should know that a 911 Turbo and an E55 AMG are completely different animals. Will the E55 smoke a 911 turbo in a straight line-yes. However, everything performance wise the 911 will win. If you're looking for a pure driving experience go with the 911 TT. If you're looking for an insane fast 4 door sports sedan, look no where else other than the E55. I've owned an E39 M5 and I liked it, however, the E55 is on another level in terms of quality. Obviously the next M5 will be the true competition for the E55, however, it has terrible styling.

AMG Fan

For someone that knows car as well as you claim to, you should know that a 911 Turbo and an E55 AMG are completely different animals. Will the E55 smoke a 911 turbo in a straight line-yes. However, everything performance wise the 911 will win. If you're looking for a pure driving experience go with the 911 TT. If you're looking for an insane fast 4 door sports sedan, look no where else other than the E55. I've owned an E39 M5 and I liked it, however, the E55 is on another level in terms of quality. Obviously the next M5 will be the true competition for the E55, however, it has terrible styling.

CarlssonCRS

dude... a e55 will not smoke a 996 TT straight line.

W210

I have owned the latest MB offerings, namely a R230 and W211 and can say with no hesitation that the quality has improved dramatically.

Resale value of the SL500 has also been very strong better than the Lexus SC430 and the car feels far more solid too. I would definitely rather be in an accident in the SL than the SC.

I considered Lexus but they simply don't have a product to compete with the E55. And BMW is all talk and nothing more. While I am on the M5 list, the interior looks rather cheap and nasty.

Looked at the RS6 it simply doesn't have the same resale value as the E55, due to a new A6 replacement due next year. And the car doesn't even have map navigation.

I am not interested in a 996TT as I want a safe and practical car with advance telematics and comfort for me as a work horse between work and home. I can't begin to imagine flipping out to use the Palm with the TT's harsh suspension.

For the boys looking for a car with the biggest curb appeal under $100k, perhaps a Viper?

The lack of choice in this price range tells us something which more than one auto journalist had pointed out: the E55 is a great bargain!

amg55

Resale value issue: the top resale value among all factory cars 2001-2003: Porsche TT and CLK55
All the top end German luxury sedans depreciate rapidly: check the residuals on a new 745i and an Audi A8 if you want to feel better about the S Class.

Quality issue: MB products are not as good as they were in 1970's/early80's, but are better than they were 10 years ago.
Compare ratings with Audi, BMW and Porsche (average over the past 4 years) and results are virtually identical.

Lexus issue: Toyota and Honda offer the highest quality products on the market for the dollar (IMO). But driving a Lexus is like marrying June Cleaver...safe, predictable, boring to the extreme...not much fun. Plus the LS430 screams: "I'm dull, and mentally ready for that home in the planned retirement community".

To ipaq123: the AMG division seeks to modify MB products to make them more powerful and sportier. MB has not made a concerted effort to match BMW's engineering when it comes to handling characteristics. That has been BMW's strong suit for a long time. This is an undisputed point. MB puts their research $$ into safety, electronics and luxury design technology because that's what their customer base has valued in the past.

ipaq123

Handling and braking go hand in hand with safety if that is one of their top priorities. It should certainly go hand in hand if they want to make their vehicles more powerful.

When Autoweek TV tested the W211 E55 it performed only 1 foot better in stopping from 60 than did a Range Rover!! So should we now compare the 911tt an E55 and a Range Rover in this discussion. God I hope not.

BoBcanada

Well who cares how it stops, plus i dont belive this testing, you should do your own testing, when i test drove the car i couldnt get smile of my face the whole time i was driving it and that what i care - I LOVED THE CAR, i think it stops pretty well accelerates like an f16, handle very good i was VERY satisfied with the car! I always wanted the acceleration and comfort! That's why i chose E55, because i LOVED IT, my point is if you have any doubts dont buy it! Yes it cannot compare to 911 or m5 in some ways, but 911 or m5 etc. also cannot be compared to the luxory of e55.

PEOPLE: if you have any small doubt about E55 DO NOT BUY IT!

JT55

Didn't want a flame - didn't I say that?
Well gloves off - You first AMG55
Experience I "claim to have" - Claim as in maybe I don't? Why don't you get your car next to Kleeman and Renntech's best at the New York Auto show and then come talk to me Mr. Stock car. Check with Simon at EvoSport for my umm... credentials Oh yeah,. I just so happen to own my own aftermarket company, Sir.
I know the type - "I'm going to get some new wheels for my AMG - I think I'm going to go for the 19in. 5 spoke AMG's - I want to keep the "stock" look. "Gonna do some add'l mods changing the spring pads next week - Too radical? Thinkin about the Flat hood star. - gettin crazy better slow down.

Get it together? I have it together I can have any car I want and just because I don't have my Dockers on with my sweater tucked in and list all my cars I've had since I was 16 doesn't mean I don't have and had an impressive collection.
I'm sorry did my post annoy you - I'll try not to do that again. You are who again and I care because?and your opinion matters why? oh yeah - because you have a stock car. I forgot.
PS - I love Mercedes - have had 4 of them - my dad 9 of them I grew up with them. I just was saying that I wish they made a more serious car that I wouldn't be sorry I bought when the next model BMW comes out thats all. You can't tell me that AMG isn't courting the BMW customer with all the new Advertisements and the race in HP. You build an AMG to be the worst performing car amongst the other car brands? You build it to handle the worst? brake the worst? have the least communicative steering - this is something they do on purpose?" Hey lets build a new E55 and we don't want it to be the best German sedan in its class but the worst" - yeah thats it. When car mags do a comparo Mercedes is happy when it comes in last? or second to the outgoing BMW model? Come on man. Please. Don't tell me that BMW owners wouldn't jump to MB if they had a real M5 fighter. What is wrong with a little distinction between the models - Everyone wants to be noticed whether they admit it or not - stop lying to yourself. Thats why we change the wheels the bodykit and post pics on these forums so someone can recognize your work and seperate your car from the rest of the worlds that look exactly alike. IF you don't want to be noticed and don't want to be distinctive I guess we could by a KIA Sorrento and drop in an E55 motor. It won't handle or stop or look good perfect but it sure will be fast in a straight line Mission accomplished - Thanks guys I got it now!!! or should I say I "got it together".

BoBcanada

JT55, Go and buy BMW and stop this mess! E55 is the BEST car for AMG enthusiasts, and "WE" AMG enthusiasts DO Not want to hear this stories about how BMW better or whatever, this board was made for people to talk about their cars, not to compare, or listen to some complains, we got your point, you dont like it, okay take it easy!!!

And myself i like the auto i like everything in mercedes cars, had a bmw brand new 745i and it was hell!!! That was eneough for me, car spent more time in BMW service than on my hand, BMW service sucked, I'll never buy a bmw again...well maybe if they'll come up with some better designs ETC.:p

JT55

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JT55

Bob' s Quote [SIZE=3]THIS BOARD WAS MADE NOT TO COMPARE OR LISTEN TO COMPLAINTS - Really? What the hell are you talking about? SO I can't talk about other cars or complain - as long as I'm praising MB I can stay? Is that THE WORD Bob?
Wow how surprising that a CAnadian has no other opinions - won't be controversial and prefers to follow others and not question. Shocking.

BOB - I'm an American and I order you not to make any other posts until I say so - until then - sit tight, and wait for my word.

By the way "who cares how it stops" one of my favorites! Ummm...with 469HP someone should care. Did someone else tell you to say that BOB?

jkrutch

The 996TT is a very safe and very practical car. I know...I've had 2 of them and my third is on order. Other than a slightly stiff suspension, there is nothing impractical about it. It has a back seat for my 2 older kids, it has a highly advanced electronics system, and it requires less maintenance than my E55 does. As for the Viper, I have had 2...a '97 GTS and an '03 SRT-10 (which was traded for the E55). It has plenty of curb appeal and it a lot of fun to drive, but the 911 offers a lot more. The Viper is too hot to drive 9 months out of the year here in South Florida...the A/C is a joke. The 911TT is a daily driver with supercar credentials. Any sub 4.0 second 0-60 car that can really brake and handle while allowing me to tote the 2 kids along is a no-compromise vehicle. There is a lot of specualtion that the new M5 will be comparable performance wise to the 911TT. We'll see.

I just wish everyone would remember the fact that the M5 and E55 target different markets. The M5 is probably at worst going match the E55 in straight line and win everywhere else. My personal opinion is that the interior of the new 5 series is horrible...someone else might like it. If it were up to me, the E55 would be better distinguised (visually) from the other E class cars and offer much better handling and a transmission choice. To me that's where the AMG part of the car should make its prescence known. Its ok for MB to give up some comfort...the car does have some serious HP and wear the AMG badge! AMG is the racing arm of MB. I am disappointed that they went to a smaller rear tire over the less powerful W210 E55. Afterall, .83 on the skidpad is not enough grip for a car like the E55. The E55 is great, but perfection has yet to be achieved...

Just my .02 worth....

W210

Speak for yourself and not for everybody. I for one would hate to be in a car with any aftermarket wheels and bodykits. No I'm perfectly happy with a stock car thank you.

I respect your passion for aftermarket accessories but not everyone share the same interests. One thing I really like about the E55 is that it looks like other thousands of E-class out there. I can efficiently speed and less cops will notice me.

The part about other members making fun of you "not getting it", all they meant was that they find your post pointless and unconstructive and if you're truly looking for a loud sports car, look elsewhere.

Of course, you're on your own once you see a need to show off the number of Mercedes you and your family own, or make absolutely silly remarks on other countries. Either you'll drag more folks to attack you or they'll see you as a complete idiot.

Back to the topic of what to get, don't you find the new 6 series quite ugly as well? What's wrong with a used 996TT?

W210

Good points, I didn't know about the poor a/c of the Viper. I particularly agree with you on the interior of the 5. I really hope they'll improve on the M5 interior.

I'm curious about the narrow rear tires of the E55, perhaps for safety in the wet on the autoban? 4matic will really help the performance, but then at the expense of extra weight.

The 996TT is a practical car, relatively speaking, when compared to other supercars. However, call me silly but I would not want to put my kids in the back. As stiff as as the body is, I do not dare to test its crumble zone with my kids in such a small and relatively light car. The stick shift will also be a challenge for me as I multi-task between home and office very day.

However, there is no question that if I were in the market for a sports car, 996TT will be the first choice, the only debate would be whether to wait for the 997TT!

jkrutch

I have heard stories of 911s slamming into trees at 100MPH+ and the driver walking away. I wouldn't test that, but I truly believe that the structure is very safe. BTW...I don't consider 3,400lbs a light car. The Viper A/C is worthless with the top down and driving that car (SRT-10) with the top up is too tight for me. It was a fun car though...The steering feedback was a bit numb. My kids are also very young and small and I only take them in the Porsche on short trips, but I don;t doubt the safety at all. That car is very strong. I can't wait to see the 997....

amg55

Well, I guess I was right. You really don't seem to get it.
Look. My point is pretty simple.
You want something MB does not make.
MB is not likely to make what you want any time soon.
So stop *****ing about it 'cause it ain't gonna change.
BUY SOMEONE ELSE'S PRODUCT because your whining isn't going to change the market.

My comment about your "claimed experience" didn't hit home either, apparently. I'm not questioning whether or not you've owned a number of desirable cars. I'm wondering why someone who claims to know a lot about cars hasn't figured out my first point above....that MB does not target the sports car market.
You seem to want a high performance sports car.
MB doesn't make one. Pretty simple.
Most everyone at this forum seems to know this, so your diatribe (original post) stands out as being unusual.

Next point: since when are modifications necessary to make a car desirable?
Cars are not my life. I pay very little attention to other people's cars. I've never been to an owner's car show. I'm sure I'll never go to one in the future.
I bought an E55 precisely because I don't want to monkey around with car mods but I want a performance sedan.
Also, when it comes time to sell it, I don't want the hassle of sifting through the tiny group of people who want to pay $40-50K for a used, modified sport sedan which only appeals to a small fraction of buyers when brand new.
People who mod their cars have a great hobby. More power to them. But it's not important to some people.

Back to the MB vs. BMW issue. Common sense will tell you that if the Japanese can pirate virtually any type of technology and efficiently reproduce it, MB could certainly match or outduel BMW in the suspension/handling area if their board decided this was imperative. Why does MB not see this is an issue?
I don't know for sure but my guess is that they have determined that their target market values other things more highly, so they've chosen to allocate their R&D budget accordingly.
Why then the horsepower war?
For one, it's an area where objective comparisons can be made and it's easy to become viewed as objectively 'inferior' if you lag in this area.
But the superior 'driving experience' BMW is known for is almost entirely subjective. They can't make MB look bad by posting data about how much more enjoyable it is to run an M3 through the canyons (G tests and such don't adequately convey this message). That's why BMW wants consumers to recognize their cars as "the ultimate driving machines"...that's where BMW excels, in an area which must be expressed with words rather than numbers.

Chappy

How much is a GT3?