To be or not to be converted.
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C63 2012 M156
To be or not to be converted.
Hello MB folks,
I have been a relatively dedicated BMW 5 series owner for a while and have invested a chunk of time getting proficient with the various diagnostic / coding tools, BMWcentric common fixes, various performance tweaks and now have quite a lot of special tools as well.
However I drove an ex Japan 2007 E63 AMG with 31,000 Ks on it yesterday and my eyeballs have not yet popped back into their sockets, such an hilariously fast car!
I know there is always something to fix on the BMWs. I wonder if I might get an honest heads up on what owning an E63 AMG could be like over 3-4 years.
Here’s a list of issues that I have scraped up, would someone mind crossing out the ones not related to these cars? Any suggestions on other things to look for would be appreciated as well.
Engine:
Transmission:
Suspension:
Body:
Interior:
I have been a relatively dedicated BMW 5 series owner for a while and have invested a chunk of time getting proficient with the various diagnostic / coding tools, BMWcentric common fixes, various performance tweaks and now have quite a lot of special tools as well.
However I drove an ex Japan 2007 E63 AMG with 31,000 Ks on it yesterday and my eyeballs have not yet popped back into their sockets, such an hilariously fast car!
I know there is always something to fix on the BMWs. I wonder if I might get an honest heads up on what owning an E63 AMG could be like over 3-4 years.
Here’s a list of issues that I have scraped up, would someone mind crossing out the ones not related to these cars? Any suggestions on other things to look for would be appreciated as well.
Engine:
- Engine V-belt tensioners and dampeners
- Engine mounts – there does seem to be a slight dead spot in the steering (not sure if these are rack and pinion or not)
- Worn piston rings
- Worn valve stem seals
- Head gasket failure
- Leaking camshaft covers and resultant engine/transmission wiring loom contamination.
- Worn camshafts and camshaft followers
- O2 sensors
- CPS sensors
- MAF sensors
- ECU issues
- Ignition coil issues
- Voltage regulator, charging and battery issues
- Fuel pump issues
- Coolant expansion tank
- Auxiliary water pump issues
Transmission:
- Transmission mounts
- Fluid and filters will need changing – I notice there is a little drive train slack during acceleration / deceleration transitions.
- Transmission plug leak
Suspension:
- Control arm bushes
- Leaking steering damper
- Steering linkages
- Power steering issues
- Lower ball joints
- Spring breakages
- Air bladder failure
- Worn / squeaking rear struts
- Maintaining wheel alignment issues
Body:
- Poor quality / easily damaged paint
- Rust in bottom corners of the rear doors
Interior:
- Air conditioning issues
- Heater stepper motors
- Stereo issues
- Electric sunroof issues
- Electric window issues
- Electric door lock issues
- Dashboard lights and instrument issues
- Software errors causing multiple problems including speedometer and fuel gauge inaccuracy and engine shut-off control in an emergency situation.
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From: Orange County, CA.
one car at a time
IMHO, the AMGs are more reliable / cheaper to own than their M counterparts, yet neither car is "cheap to own". Just find a well cared for sub ~40K miles car and drive it for another 100K miles - you'll go through the standard oil & filter / brakes / tires, but for the most part you will just add gas and go....
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From: Sleepy Hollow, IL
65 Chevelle Wagon w/ C5 frame, 08 ML63, 04 S600, 04 E55,(sold) 00 ML55,(sold) 98 C43-55K Swap
I would drive a clean low mileage 05-06 e55 before you make any purchase. E55's are much cheaper to maintain and repairs are more DIY friendly. E63's can be costly to maintain, especially early ones. Search head bolts or lifters on the m156 engine. If you think a E63 is fast, drive a E55 with a larger pulley
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C63 2012 M156
Thanks for the thoughts guys.
So if I went E63 then replace the head bolts and maybe cams while I am at it? I see the combination of cast nodular iron camshafts and 9310 grade steel valve lifters contributes to premature cam wear and a class action lawsuit was raised on this issue. Any thing to worry about really?
@stockc43 if you were to start from scratch with a e55 what would you do and what would the results really be?
Is there any chance I can ever get either the 55 or 63 handling close to an M?
Lots of great twisty roads here in NZ...
So if I went E63 then replace the head bolts and maybe cams while I am at it? I see the combination of cast nodular iron camshafts and 9310 grade steel valve lifters contributes to premature cam wear and a class action lawsuit was raised on this issue. Any thing to worry about really?
@stockc43 if you were to start from scratch with a e55 what would you do and what would the results really be?
Is there any chance I can ever get either the 55 or 63 handling close to an M?
Lots of great twisty roads here in NZ...
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 408
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From: AZ
C32, C55, 08 E63
Thanks for the thoughts guys.
So if I went E63 then replace the head bolts and maybe cams while I am at it? I see the combination of cast nodular iron camshafts and 9310 grade steel valve lifters contributes to premature cam wear and a class action lawsuit was raised on this issue. Any thing to worry about really?
@stockc43 if you were to start from scratch with a e55 what would you do and what would the results really be?
Is there any chance I can ever get either the 55 or 63 handling close to an M?
Lots of great twisty roads here in NZ...
So if I went E63 then replace the head bolts and maybe cams while I am at it? I see the combination of cast nodular iron camshafts and 9310 grade steel valve lifters contributes to premature cam wear and a class action lawsuit was raised on this issue. Any thing to worry about really?
@stockc43 if you were to start from scratch with a e55 what would you do and what would the results really be?
Is there any chance I can ever get either the 55 or 63 handling close to an M?
Lots of great twisty roads here in NZ...
As far as e55s most people usually replace the inter cooler pump and the heat exchanger to keep IAT temps down, which can become an issue if you pulley/tune the car.
Both cars can have airmatic issues with air shocks leaking and things of that sort, that's really the only other major issues with the cars that I can think of short of just regular maintenance items.
As far as handling you can get a lowering module to lower the car but nothing as far as changing the stiffness other than the stock settings. You could go to a coilover set up and junk the airmatic set up completely and that would give you a lot more ride adjustments.
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C63 2012 M156
So the airmatic suspension is a genuine consern... Good to know.
Sticking with a low milage example for 40-50, maybe with a few tride and true mods, sounds like the minimum fuss option.
Handling wise, which is going to be more fun under brakes, through the twisty stuff, 55 or 63?
Sticking with a low milage example for 40-50, maybe with a few tride and true mods, sounds like the minimum fuss option.
Handling wise, which is going to be more fun under brakes, through the twisty stuff, 55 or 63?
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From: Orange County, CA.
one car at a time
If you are driving a 500 + hp e55 with a nice wheel & suspension setup, you'll do better in the twisties than most of the competition (great brakes, easy to control, and tons of power coming out of corners )...The only thing I hate on the cars is the traction control / ESP - which is way to conservative from the factory....Drive without the ESP if you know what you are doing, but be careful.
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Thread Starter
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C63 2012 M156
Looks like the 55 is the enthusiast choice, same brakes, good to know.
I know this is not a typical question but will a pullied/tuned 55 loose a chunk of economy and more importantly range on the straight bits before the fun stuff. I ask as it can often be a stress finding 98 at 03:00 on a Sunday during long trips in NZ.
I know this is not a typical question but will a pullied/tuned 55 loose a chunk of economy and more importantly range on the straight bits before the fun stuff. I ask as it can often be a stress finding 98 at 03:00 on a Sunday during long trips in NZ.
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2005 E55 AMG, 2012 GL550, 2000 Ford Lightning, 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD
It's not really an answer to your questions, but more of a "real life" experience comment... I've had my 05 E55 for a year and have put about 20k miles on it. No issues other than the IC pump - which is simple and cheap to replace. Absolutely love the car! About 6 months ago I leased a 14 M6 Gran Coupe and I find myself choosing the Merc to drive more often than the BMW. As spectacular as the M6 is, it lacks something in comparison to the E. Don't know what it is really, but I simply enjoy the E more.
My recommendation is E55 all the way! I don't think you'll regret it.
My recommendation is E55 all the way! I don't think you'll regret it.
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From: Orange County, CA.
one car at a time
Looks like the 55 is the enthusiast choice, same brakes, good to know.
I know this is not a typical question but will a pullied/tuned 55 loose a chunk of economy and more importantly range on the straight bits before the fun stuff. I ask as it can often be a stress finding 98 at 03:00 on a Sunday during long trips in NZ.
I know this is not a typical question but will a pullied/tuned 55 loose a chunk of economy and more importantly range on the straight bits before the fun stuff. I ask as it can often be a stress finding 98 at 03:00 on a Sunday during long trips in NZ.
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C63 2012 M156
Yes range is important. Some times a good tune will improve freeway MPG and range, some times this is neglected in the mappings. Since my options here are a 63 or a tuned 55 I am interested to know if anyone has seen the over boosting and ECU tunes increase economy when on the cruse control or quite the opposite for the 55s.
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From: Houston, TX
2006 E55
Look up threads from a member here named 'Denroll'. He appears to be our champion when it comes to economy while having neck snapping power all at the same time in the 55 platform. I think he has recorded up to 26 mpg?
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From: Houston, TX
2006 E55, 2012 Jeep SRT, 2008 G37s 6MT (The Mrs.), 2005 Explorer
A set of long tubes will go a long way toward hp, keeping heat down, and improving fuel economy. Should definitely be the first mod.
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C63 2012 M156
So 63 vs modded 55...
The M113 ML55 doesn't seem to have any major gremlins, is that right?
All I would be missing out on is the 7 speed trans, the paddle sifters and the wonderful opportunity to replace my cams lifters and head bolts.
Fair summary?
The M113 ML55 doesn't seem to have any major gremlins, is that right?
All I would be missing out on is the 7 speed trans, the paddle sifters and the wonderful opportunity to replace my cams lifters and head bolts.
Fair summary?
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From: Sleepy Hollow, IL
65 Chevelle Wagon w/ C5 frame, 08 ML63, 04 S600, 04 E55,(sold) 00 ML55,(sold) 98 C43-55K Swap
. You can retrofit paddle shifters, e63 cluster, bumpers, lights etc to make the car feel/look newer if you like. Btw I have a 220,000 mile beater ML55 for sale if your interested in a ml
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From: Northern California
2004 E55 AMG; 1991 Previa
Honestly I would take a newer 08-09 E63. I love the E55 but it has soo many little issues as a DD. Supercharger clutch $1400+ and mine just sucks when engaging. The heat soak kills me if I want to blast to 155. On top of that the interior is more 'newer' with the dash unit, and center console, air bag, steering wheel. On top of that I just love the sound of the E63. Can't go wrong with a naturally aspirated engine. If you really really want to go SUPER FAST get a 3.0L Weistec S/C.
Realistically when you buy an E63 you really don't have to do **** to the car but put gas and drive. The E55, if I were to buy another one with low miles I would really consider spending $5-7k (parts only) in upgrade to the car prior to even driving. Cooling mods and headers with a tune.
Realistically when you buy an E63 you really don't have to do **** to the car but put gas and drive. The E55, if I were to buy another one with low miles I would really consider spending $5-7k (parts only) in upgrade to the car prior to even driving. Cooling mods and headers with a tune.
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From: America
04 E55 AMG
Honestly I would take a newer 08-09 E63. I love the E55 but it has soo many little issues as a DD. Supercharger clutch $1400+ and mine just sucks when engaging. The heat soak kills me if I want to blast to 155. On top of that the interior is more 'newer' with the dash unit, and center console, air bag, steering wheel. On top of that I just love the sound of the E63. Can't go wrong with a naturally aspirated engine. If you really really want to go SUPER FAST get a 3.0L Weistec S/C.
Realistically when you buy an E63 you really don't have to do **** to the car but put gas and drive. The E55, if I were to buy another one with low miles I would really consider spending $5-7k (parts only) in upgrade to the car prior to even driving. Cooling mods and headers with a tune.
Realistically when you buy an E63 you really don't have to do **** to the car but put gas and drive. The E55, if I were to buy another one with low miles I would really consider spending $5-7k (parts only) in upgrade to the car prior to even driving. Cooling mods and headers with a tune.
get in touch with member Shardul and change your supercharger clutch for cheap also why don't you just change your intercooler pump with the Bosch 010.... Naturally aspirated motor has head bolt problems
Last edited by MAN55LE; May 26, 2014 at 07:08 PM.
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C63 2012 M156
As much as there is some disagreement it is very nice to hear both sides of the story.
TBH I am a little burnt out from all the work I put into the BMW, now it is perfect I am looking around. I know.
As much as I do enjoy modding cars (ex mechanic, mostly performance work) I would really like a fun and slightly crazy DD for a while.
If all I have to do with a E63 to have piece of mind is replace the head bolts, cams and lifters that might be the ticket. Or I could just get a warranty and enjoy, preferably one that covers the Airmatic suspension as well.
Are there aftermarket cams and lifters that don't have the ware issues BTW?
TBH I am a little burnt out from all the work I put into the BMW, now it is perfect I am looking around.
I know.As much as I do enjoy modding cars (ex mechanic, mostly performance work) I would really like a fun and slightly crazy DD for a while.
If all I have to do with a E63 to have piece of mind is replace the head bolts, cams and lifters that might be the ticket. Or I could just get a warranty and enjoy, preferably one that covers the Airmatic suspension as well.
Are there aftermarket cams and lifters that don't have the ware issues BTW?
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From: Sleepy Hollow, IL
65 Chevelle Wagon w/ C5 frame, 08 ML63, 04 S600, 04 E55,(sold) 00 ML55,(sold) 98 C43-55K Swap
I would just do your research before you decide. I do like the e63's, I not hating on them. It's just the cost of fixing them (as a MB tech) scares the hell out of me. Most are fine and have no issues, but when they do its $$$. E55's are cheap, parts are cheap, engines, trans etc. yes the supercharger clutch is expensive but the bearing is what usually fails and you can repair that separately. E55's and e63's both can have airmatic issues so that's a wash. E63 transmission conductor plates go bad, about 3 times the cost of a e55. Engine bed plates leak, engine out repair. I've seen head bolts cause the coolant hydrolock the piston and bend rods without warning. Stuck injectors causing bent rods, multiple intake leaks, lifter/cam issues, noisy cam adjusters and so on. Just for fun, find a good running m156. About $15k. Front brake pads and rotors for a E63 are $2,000 or so. A warranty for a e63 is almost a must have, in my opinion. Just my thoughts, don't want your first MB experience to be a bad one.
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From: Orlando
1967 Pro Touring turbo LSX Camaro
My E55 might suit your fancy, and I'm going to put it up for sale in less than 2 weeks. I'm currently daily driving it while I do a cosmetic makeover on my CLS. It's the best of both W211 worlds, an 06 E55 that cosmetically looks like the newer E63. PM me if you're interested.
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From: Silicon Valley
V60 Polestar, Veloster N 6MT
IMO, the head bolt issue on the M156 engine is played out. This engine was put in practically every AMG model lineup between 2007-2009. If you're really worried about the head bolt issue, get the ones from Weistec and be done with it.
In summary, if you don't want to mod, get the E63. If you want to mod (and all the fun that comes with it), get the E55. I just recently got my E63 and had an opportunity to drive and research both - the E63 is much more refined. The E55 is more raw.
The brake feel on the E63 is significantly better IMO over the E55. The 7sp tranny is much smoother. Mine is used for family weekend outings and we love it.
I don't care for mileage as much as documented maintenance. Get the one that has proof that the former owner(s) took care of the car. It really reduces the perceived cost of owning a used German vehicle.
In summary, if you don't want to mod, get the E63. If you want to mod (and all the fun that comes with it), get the E55. I just recently got my E63 and had an opportunity to drive and research both - the E63 is much more refined. The E55 is more raw.
The brake feel on the E63 is significantly better IMO over the E55. The 7sp tranny is much smoother. Mine is used for family weekend outings and we love it.
I don't care for mileage as much as documented maintenance. Get the one that has proof that the former owner(s) took care of the car. It really reduces the perceived cost of owning a used German vehicle.
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C63 2012 M156
Cheers guys, you do sound like a very decent bunch.
@stockC43 if you were to run a list for the E55 as per above what would it look like?
For those thinking offering me their cars, NZ is New Zealand We even drive on the wrong side of the road down here so importing is not an option either... thanks though.
@stockC43 if you were to run a list for the E55 as per above what would it look like?
For those thinking offering me their cars, NZ is New Zealand
We even drive on the wrong side of the road down here so importing is not an option either... thanks though.
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From: Northern California
2004 E55 AMG; 1991 Previa
Who says you can't get the same feeling with an E63. I gotta agree that a stock E63 vs E55, the E55 just makes you giggle sometimes at how fast it is. The fact of the matter that sets me on a E63 is the fact that the E55 engine is out played now. I just looked at an older post about 'DONT change your coil packs' 
. The same ones that are in use since 1990!!!!!! I can't hate on AMG and what they did because in '04 ain't no one stock smoking my **** off the line.
Realistically if I were to spend 1/2 of what some guys do here I'd get the E63, change the head bolts, throw a stage 1 weistec s/c (THANKS CA), killer chiller with a rear tank, DD.
. The same ones that are in use since 1990!!!!!! I can't hate on AMG and what they did because in '04 ain't no one stock smoking my **** off the line.Realistically if I were to spend 1/2 of what some guys do here I'd get the E63, change the head bolts, throw a stage 1 weistec s/c (THANKS CA), killer chiller with a rear tank, DD.
