Trying to see why most people prefer the M113K over the M275 when it comes to modding. The M113K seems to have more "moving" engine parts that tend to break while the M275 engine parts seem more resilient IMHO.

Yes the M275s have ABC suspension which is a nightmare but the M113Ks have Airmatic/SBC which can be just as bad.

For those curious, here's Kleeman's offerings for the M275:


600-K1: ECU tuning. Up to 660 HP and 1100 Nm (815 lb-ft) of torque.

600-K2: K1 + high flow air filters and an intercooler pump upgrade kit. Up to 690 HP and 1200 Nm (889 lb-ft) of torque.

600-K3: K2 + stainless steel downpipes (front catalyst delete system). Up to 720 HP and 1200 Nm (889 lb-ft) of torque.

http://catalog.kleemann.dk/catalog/c...-biturbo-m275/

 

I love my M113 because it's faster than the M275.

 

The S Class is more expensive to maintain. A v12 bi-turbo sound great but just looking at it I see money. I will one day own an S65, it's just not the time for me.

 

Owning both I can say that I like both, but there very different. The instant response of the 55 is great, more muscle car like. The 275 is so smooth and just never stops pulling. The power comes on softer but it never stops pulling. In heavy cars S/CL class I prefer the 275. On E class and smaller (and soon my c43 ) the 113 kompressor.

Honestly engine reliability is about the same. I've had my S600 since '07 and my only failures have been a pair of coils. Coils, voltage converters and idler pulleys are about the only common issues and the updated coils seem to be reliable.

113k's obviously oil leaks, supercharger clutch pulleys, oil sensors, alternators crank sensors, etc.

 

Cause I'll drive a boat, but not a barge.

 

Lol, just something about the sc on a V8 get my spine tingling. And it's simple enough for an average enthusiast to work on.

 

Not a fair comparison. Apples and oranges.

On average, the un modified M113K engine is a very powerful engine that's smooth and has great response. It's also extremely reliable for an engine of its output if not overly modified.
But there are some faults to the M113K engine; it's somewhat free-revving but not extremely dynamic - the dynamism of the engine is partially due to the transmission being a slow shifter.

I'm not familiar with the long-term reliability of the M275 engine. Being it's a special engine, lower production numbers, it's exotic, and a V12; I imagine it's probably less reliable than the M113K, but that's just a guess. I've driven the M275 engine in a few examples (S600, SL600, and S65) and again, I find it not to be dynamic (limited by the transmission), but extremely smooth and torquey.

The biggest problem is the fuel consumption of the M275. The fuel consumption of an E55 with the M113K with the 21.1 US Gallon tank is in the very low 337 mile range at 16 mpg. With the S600, you actually have slightly less range despite a 23.2 gallon tank because the fuel economy averages to 13mpg is only 301 miles if you use every last drop. It's only a 36 mile range difference, but mentally you can't get even 300 miles on the S600 because you won't use the car down to the last drop.

Last but not least, all of this is a moot point for clients who live in the USA. In the USA, we are choked with fairly conservative speed limits, whereas in Europe, there is the possibility to drive much higher speeds.

The E55's power is best realized in accelerating from 60 mph to 120 mph (100kph to 200kph), as this is achieved quite quickly with a feeling of torque, and you can see the speedometer needle rise quickly. An M275 equipped vehicle is amazing because it continues to accelerate with such ferocity from 200kph to 300 kph that it's truly quite staggering. But again, since this is not possible in the USA, so it's almost pointless.

 

In stock form, they're both stout.

I am amazed that the performance of the M275 is so abysmal when modded. We're talking about a 5.5L or 6.0L twin turbo V12 here, why are people struggling to make 700whp on modded stock turbos? Their standing mile trap speeds are impressive, it just seems like they're 2-300whp behind the curve... even more on bigger frame replacements.

 

The M275's stock turbos are tiny. They are absolute torque monsters down low but run out of steam up high. The car requires larger turbos and custom manifolds to reach the 700+ rwhp level. There are just not many out there taking it to this level. The only vendor that I know of that produces these power levels has a hard time actually delivering their orders.

On mileage, I averaged 17.9 mpg out of my Rennteched M275. The engine is as smooth as silk. In fact, it's my favorite Benz engine to date.

 

i have a S600 with upgrade turbos and a E55 and each one of them has it pros and cons. with that being said i drive the S class more!

 

THIS.

The V12 isn't exactly light. Unless it's put into something purpose built like the Huayra it's gonna be a lump so heavy you understeer into a tree in a mildy fast corner. That being said the S/CL aren't exactly made for the track and their smoothness and power and torque make them insane in a straight line. They're very good for a top speed car, an autobahn stormer.

In the E class they're probably out of place but in the S/CL they're smooth and puuuuuulll!!!


Not a light car. For big cars like the S you need alot of TORQUE!!!

 

Both engines in question with their cars they fit in, are made for the Autobahn.
In fact every Larger powerful Benz, Bimmer, Audi whatever is made for the German Autobahn.
I know not a single Benz who's strengths are NOT the straight line.
They are usually not made for curvy land roads/round track whatever. In fact the only Benz car i've ever driven that was "good enough" for such roads, was my W201 190E with 1240KG (2733pounds) weight and track suspension + 9x16" wheels.

I prefer the 55K. It has a much more "sporty" appearance, quick up revving, great V8 sound, lighter than the V12 cars. Knowing big Mercedes cars with V12s, i'm not regretting that i went with the 55K in CL C215. Its such a quick fcking beast, even unmodded.
Going super sportcar speeds/acceleration and getting my *** massaged+cooled by the ventilated seats at the same time is just priceless. And even though the car is already 12 years old, its still a head turner for the poeple.

Regarding your speed limit:
I always wondered how "our" cars, capable of going past 300kph are such good sellers in the US or other countries.
Just heard a story of a german press guy, going just 10-15miles per hour faster than the allowed 85mph in texas and he was fined 240$... Wouldn't he had cash on him, they would have put him into jail. Thats really INSANE!
Whats that 95-100mph hes driven?
Thats really nothing for those big modern cars with big brakes, advanced suspensions, etc. Average cruising speed on German Autobahn with larger cars is around 120mph or more. Even the 18 year old girls do that if their cars are capable of (and even smaller 100 + some HP Japanese little cars reach those 120mph with ease)

I could understand such speed limits more or less for cars made in the 1950s or 1960s, but in 2015 still holding on to that limit... i cant understand this.
You guys in the US should really stand up and make petitions or whatever is possible in your political system, to remove that speed limit on tested/approved parts of your highways. :-) :-) :-)

 

Crissus, have you driven a car in USA on the roads here?

I for one enjoy driving quickly. But here in the USA, people don't take driving as seriously as they do in Germany. The individuals here in the USA don't have the discipline towards driving the same way they do in Germany. Cars are not maintained to as high of a level in the US as it is in Germany. Cars built here aren't designed for it, the people can't handle it, and the laws/insurance would definitely not support it.

Yet, Americans love buying European cars because many Americans have European ancestry and European cars are generally regarded as a safer car. Safety is a big priority for the car market in America, especially since most cars in America are large, so it is important to have a safe car in case there is an impact with another large car. The car was also invented in Europe. And last but not least, imports always bring a bit of status.

Thus, while I would enjoy the opportunity to drive quickly legally, after thinking about it some more and realizing how poorly people drive in this country, I realize it would not make sense in the long run.

 

This is true. Cars like the E55 accelerate at insane rates. They break the speed limit IMMEDIATELY after WOT, 0 sec delay. I was doing 160 mph in a 50 mph speed zone so yes, these cars just cannot be driven slowly. They have too much power. You give them even a little throttle and you're slingshot-ed at incredible speeds. Cars are becoming WAY too fast.

 

Hmm you do realize w/just a simple Renntech ECU tune on some nice gripy STREET tires a heavy *** SL600 (4450-4600lbs depending on factory options) easily sprints to 60 mph in 3.3-3.6 seconds.. bunch of members here have seen these #'s as well as Car & Driver tested/ran 3.5-3.6 seconds.. It's no where near a Top-End only car.. Add simple Down Pipes to the ECU tune & simple cooling mods & it routinely runs 180+ mph in Standing 1 mile Ask any m275 owner here about massive rolling burnouts from 50-60mph, they'll pin you back in the seat from 60-120 too... IE these rigs haul the mail after just ECU tunes, in BOTH low & top end..

And fuel consumption is very similar to E55k (as long as you're not riding boost all the time) I routinely see 21+ mpg on frwy & 16- mpg on street again, driving normal

 

Not fair!!!! You created something totally new, your hybrid 5.5 Twin Turbo isn't really the same animal anymore.. The E55kompressor isn't going to run your ET's w/out Nitrous...

 

+1

 

I didn't realize a Renntech tune would make the car that fast, but I have driven the (2008?) SL600 and I did find it to be a very quick car. And yes, I do know that the SL600 would be significantly faster than an E55, since it has 100 lb/ft more torque, I'd expect it to!

Surprised with the fuel economy. I don't think I got anywhere near 21 mpg on a long highway trip in the SL600, but I can't say I started with a full tank and filled up once I got off the highway after a long trip and did a hand calculation. I'd be surprised if I did as my impressions with the car is that I'm very happy if it averages 16 mpg. I don't personally own an SL600 so I only have occasional data. So I'd default to your experience on that!

I only average about 16-17 in the E55 with conservative driving. But I also drive the car in a neighborhood with lots of hill climbing (some of the steepest public roads in the world are in San Francisco where manufacturers test new cars) which severely cuts my average.