Different engine oil while running in motor
11-18-2015 | 03:32 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Super Member
Different engine oil while running in motor
Should I be using a different oil for the first 1000km while the motor is running in? Or just stick to Mobil 1 0W-40?
Also it's the start of a long hot summer where I am so should I consider 5W-40 during the warmer weather?
And speaking of Mobil 1 I recall a thread here a while back (cant find now) where Mobil 1 apparently didn't test as well as some other brands. Most of the brands in that thread I didn't recognise as being available in Australia though.
What is everyone else currently using?
Also it's the start of a long hot summer where I am so should I consider 5W-40 during the warmer weather?
And speaking of Mobil 1 I recall a thread here a while back (cant find now) where Mobil 1 apparently didn't test as well as some other brands. Most of the brands in that thread I didn't recognise as being available in Australia though.
What is everyone else currently using?
Last edited by TheTherapist; 11-18-2015 at 01:20 PM.
11-18-2015 | 11:50 AM
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
Detergent free oil for break in then go to Synthetic. That's how Ive ran every one of my engines Ive built. Never had an issue.
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11-18-2015 | 07:07 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Super Member
11-19-2015 | 02:49 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Super Member
I am getting some widely differing opinions on how best to run in the motor. 
As for the oil the Mercedes dealership here is insisting on using nothing but Mobil 1 0W-40 as they say tolerances are minimal in these motors and anything else is inviting damage! I am inclined to disagree but rightly nervous about doing so. Their implicit instructions seem in direct conflict with everything else I've read insofar as fully synthetic being too slick to seal correctly (amongst other things).
Now what's interesting is the information contained on the following page which is also in direct contrast with the standard running in procedure. I actually feel following the advice contained here would be of benefit to ensure the best performing and reliable motor in the long run although I REALLY need some others opinions...?
Excerpt from the above link:
Here's How To Break-In An Engine Properly:
There are 3 ways you can break in an engine:
On a Dyno:
Warm the engine up completely !!
Then, using 4th gear:
Do Three 1/2 Throttle dyno runs from 40% - 60% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three 3/4 Throttle dyno runs from 40% - 80% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three Full Throttle dyno runs from 30% - 100% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Go For It !!
NOTE: If you use a dyno with a brake, it's critical during break - in that you allow the engine to decelerate fully on it's own. (Don't use the dyno brake.) The engine vacuum created during closed throttle deceleration sucks the excess oil and metal off the cylinder walls.
The point of this is to remove the very small (micro) particles of ring and cylinder material which are part of the normal wear during this process. During deceleration, the particles suspended in the oil blow out the exhaust, rather than accumulating in the ring grooves between the piston and rings. This keeps the rings from wearing too much.
You'll notice that at first the engine "smokes" on decel, this is normal, as the rings haven't sealed yet. When you're doing it right, you'll notice that the smoke goes away after about 7-8 runs.
On the Street:
Warm the engine up completely:
Because of the wind resistance, you don't need to use higher gears like you would on a dyno machine. The main thing is to load the engine by opening the throttle hard in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear.
Realistically, you won't be able to do full throttle runs even in 2nd gear on most bikes without exceeding 65 mph / 104 kph. The best method is to alternate between short bursts of hard acceleration and deceleration. You don't have to go over 65 mph / 104 kph to properly load the rings. Also, make sure that you're not being followed by another bike or car when you decelerate, most drivers won't expect that you'll suddenly slow down, and we don't want anyone to get hit from behind !!
The biggest problem with breaking your engine in on the street (besides police) is if you ride the bike on the freeway (too little throttle = not enough pressure on the rings) or if you get stuck in slow city traffic. For the first 200 miles or so, get out into the country where you can vary the speed more and run it through the gears !
Be Safe On The Street ! Watch your speed ! When you're not used to the handling of a new vehicle, you should accelerate only on the straightaways, then slow down extra early for the turns. Remember that both hard acceleration and hard engine braking (deceleration) are equally important during the break in process.
On the Racetrack:
Warm the engine up completely:
Do one easy lap to warm up your tires. Pit, turn off the bike & check for leaks or any safety problems. Take a normal 15 minute practice session and check the water temperature occasionally. The racetrack is the perfect environment to break in an engine !! The combination of acceleration and deceleration is just the ticket for sealing the rings.
Go For It !!
Yeah - But ... the owner's manual says to break it in easy ...
Notice that this technique isn't "beating" on the engine, but rather taking a purposeful, methodical approach to sealing the rings. The logic to this method is sound. However, some will have a hard time with this approach, since it seems to "go against the grain".
The argument for an easy break-in is usually: "that's what the manual says" ....
Or more specifically: "there are tight parts in the engine and you might do damage or even seize it if you run it hard."
Consider this:
Due to the vastly improved metal casting and machining technologies which are now used, tight parts in new engines are not normal. A manufacturing mistake causing a tight clearance is an extremely rare occurrence these days. But, if there is something wrong with the engine clearances from the factory, no amount of gentle running will fix the problem.
The real reason ???
So why do all the owner's manuals say to take it easy for the first thousand miles ???
This is a good question ...
Q: What is the most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Failure to: Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!
Q: What is the second most common cause of engine problems ???
A: An easy break in !!!
Because, when the rings don't seal well, the blow-by gasses contaminate the oil with acids and other harmful combustion by-products !!
Ironically, an "easy break in" is not at all what it seems. By trying to "protect" the engine, the exact opposite happens, as leaky rings continue to contaminate your engine oil for the rest of the life of your engine !!
Q: What's the third most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Not changing the oil soon enough after the engine is first run !!
Change Your Oil Right Away !!
The best thing you can do for your engine is to change your oil and filter after the first 20 miles. Most of the wearing in process happens immediately, creating a lot of metal in the oil. Plus, the amount of leftover machining chips and other crud left behind in the manufacturing process is simply amazing !! You want to flush that stuff out before it gets recycled and embedded in the transmission gears, and oil pump etc...
Why do the manufacturers recommend waiting until 600 miles to flush out all the loose metal ???
This is a good question ...
3 more words on break- in: NO SYNTHETIC OIL !!
Use Valvoline, Halvoline, or similar 10 w 40 Petroleum Car Oil for at least 2 full days of hard racing or 1,500 miles of street riding / driving. After that use your favorite brand of oil.
Viewer Questions:
Q: If break- in happens so quickly, why do you recommend using petroleum break- in oil for 1500 miles ??
A: Because while about 80% of the ring sealing takes place in the first hour of running the engine, the last 20% of the process takes a longer time. Street riding isn't a controlled environment, so most of the mileage may not be in "ring loading mode". Synthetic oil is so slippery that it actually "arrests" the break in process before the rings can seal completely. I've had a few customers who switched to synthetic oil too soon, and the rings never sealed properly no matter how hard they rode. Taking a new engine apart to re - ring it is the last thing anyone wants to do, so I recommend a lot of mileage before switching to synthetic. It's really a "better safe than sorry" situation.
Q: My bike comes with synthetic oil from the factory, what should I do ??
A: I recommend changing the factory installed synthetic oil back to petroleum for the break-in period.
Q: What about the main and rod bearings, don't they break - in ??
A: Actually, the operation of plain bearings doesn't involve metal to metal contact !! The shiny spots on used bearings are caused from their contact with the crankshaft journals during start up after the engine has been sitting a while, and the excess oil has drained off. This is the main reason for not revving up the engine when it's first started.
The subject of plain bearings is one of the most mysterious aspects of engines, and will be covered in a future issue of Power News. In it, I'll reveal more information that fully explains the non-contact phenomenon.
Q: Why change the oil at 20 miles ?? Doesn't the oil pick up screen catch the aluminum bits ???
A: It's true that the screen stops the big pieces, but many areas of the engine aren't within the oil filtration system. The oil that is splashed around will circulate metal debris to the lubricated bearing surfaces. For example, transmission gears and their ball bearings are unprotected by the filtration system, and even the cam chain makes a perfect "conveyer belt" to
bring metal debris up into the cylinder head !!
A close examination of a new engine will reveal lots of aluminum deposits on steel parts. This aluminum coats and tightens up the clearances of the parts, which creates a loss of power. Most of the time I spend "blueprinting" an engine is actually inspecting every part and "de-aluminizing" them !!
I prefer to remove the oil pan and clean the aluminum bits out of a new engine out that way, but a $20 oil change is an easy and inexpensive way to flush the initial particles that come loose in the first miles.
Q: Will this break - in method cause my engine to wear out faster ???
A: No, in fact, a poor ring seal will allow an increase in the by products of combustion to contaminate the oil.
Acid contamination and oil consumption are the 2 reliability problems which are the result of an "owner's manual" or "magazine tech article" style easy break-in.
By following the instructions on this page, you'll find that your oil is cleaner and the engine will rev quicker.
Plus, you'll have much better torque and power across the power range from the vastly improved ring seal.
Reliability and Power are 100% connected !!
As for the oil the Mercedes dealership here is insisting on using nothing but Mobil 1 0W-40 as they say tolerances are minimal in these motors and anything else is inviting damage! I am inclined to disagree but rightly nervous about doing so. Their implicit instructions seem in direct conflict with everything else I've read insofar as fully synthetic being too slick to seal correctly (amongst other things).
Now what's interesting is the information contained on the following page which is also in direct contrast with the standard running in procedure. I actually feel following the advice contained here would be of benefit to ensure the best performing and reliable motor in the long run although I REALLY need some others opinions...?
Excerpt from the above link:
Here's How To Break-In An Engine Properly:
There are 3 ways you can break in an engine:
- on a dyno
- on the street, or off road (Motocross or Snowmobile.)
- on the racetrack
On a Dyno:
Warm the engine up completely !!
Then, using 4th gear:
Do Three 1/2 Throttle dyno runs from 40% - 60% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three 3/4 Throttle dyno runs from 40% - 80% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Do Three Full Throttle dyno runs from 30% - 100% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes
Go For It !!
NOTE: If you use a dyno with a brake, it's critical during break - in that you allow the engine to decelerate fully on it's own. (Don't use the dyno brake.) The engine vacuum created during closed throttle deceleration sucks the excess oil and metal off the cylinder walls.
The point of this is to remove the very small (micro) particles of ring and cylinder material which are part of the normal wear during this process. During deceleration, the particles suspended in the oil blow out the exhaust, rather than accumulating in the ring grooves between the piston and rings. This keeps the rings from wearing too much.
You'll notice that at first the engine "smokes" on decel, this is normal, as the rings haven't sealed yet. When you're doing it right, you'll notice that the smoke goes away after about 7-8 runs.
On the Street:
Warm the engine up completely:
Because of the wind resistance, you don't need to use higher gears like you would on a dyno machine. The main thing is to load the engine by opening the throttle hard in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear.
Realistically, you won't be able to do full throttle runs even in 2nd gear on most bikes without exceeding 65 mph / 104 kph. The best method is to alternate between short bursts of hard acceleration and deceleration. You don't have to go over 65 mph / 104 kph to properly load the rings. Also, make sure that you're not being followed by another bike or car when you decelerate, most drivers won't expect that you'll suddenly slow down, and we don't want anyone to get hit from behind !!
The biggest problem with breaking your engine in on the street (besides police) is if you ride the bike on the freeway (too little throttle = not enough pressure on the rings) or if you get stuck in slow city traffic. For the first 200 miles or so, get out into the country where you can vary the speed more and run it through the gears !
Be Safe On The Street ! Watch your speed ! When you're not used to the handling of a new vehicle, you should accelerate only on the straightaways, then slow down extra early for the turns. Remember that both hard acceleration and hard engine braking (deceleration) are equally important during the break in process.
On the Racetrack:
Warm the engine up completely:
Do one easy lap to warm up your tires. Pit, turn off the bike & check for leaks or any safety problems. Take a normal 15 minute practice session and check the water temperature occasionally. The racetrack is the perfect environment to break in an engine !! The combination of acceleration and deceleration is just the ticket for sealing the rings.
Go For It !!
Yeah - But ... the owner's manual says to break it in easy ...
Notice that this technique isn't "beating" on the engine, but rather taking a purposeful, methodical approach to sealing the rings. The logic to this method is sound. However, some will have a hard time with this approach, since it seems to "go against the grain".
The argument for an easy break-in is usually: "that's what the manual says" ....
Or more specifically: "there are tight parts in the engine and you might do damage or even seize it if you run it hard."
Consider this:
Due to the vastly improved metal casting and machining technologies which are now used, tight parts in new engines are not normal. A manufacturing mistake causing a tight clearance is an extremely rare occurrence these days. But, if there is something wrong with the engine clearances from the factory, no amount of gentle running will fix the problem.
The real reason ???
So why do all the owner's manuals say to take it easy for the first thousand miles ???
This is a good question ...
Q: What is the most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Failure to: Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!
Q: What is the second most common cause of engine problems ???
A: An easy break in !!!
Because, when the rings don't seal well, the blow-by gasses contaminate the oil with acids and other harmful combustion by-products !!
Ironically, an "easy break in" is not at all what it seems. By trying to "protect" the engine, the exact opposite happens, as leaky rings continue to contaminate your engine oil for the rest of the life of your engine !!
Q: What's the third most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Not changing the oil soon enough after the engine is first run !!
Change Your Oil Right Away !!
The best thing you can do for your engine is to change your oil and filter after the first 20 miles. Most of the wearing in process happens immediately, creating a lot of metal in the oil. Plus, the amount of leftover machining chips and other crud left behind in the manufacturing process is simply amazing !! You want to flush that stuff out before it gets recycled and embedded in the transmission gears, and oil pump etc...
Why do the manufacturers recommend waiting until 600 miles to flush out all the loose metal ???
This is a good question ...
3 more words on break- in: NO SYNTHETIC OIL !!
Use Valvoline, Halvoline, or similar 10 w 40 Petroleum Car Oil for at least 2 full days of hard racing or 1,500 miles of street riding / driving. After that use your favorite brand of oil.
Viewer Questions:
Q: If break- in happens so quickly, why do you recommend using petroleum break- in oil for 1500 miles ??
A: Because while about 80% of the ring sealing takes place in the first hour of running the engine, the last 20% of the process takes a longer time. Street riding isn't a controlled environment, so most of the mileage may not be in "ring loading mode". Synthetic oil is so slippery that it actually "arrests" the break in process before the rings can seal completely. I've had a few customers who switched to synthetic oil too soon, and the rings never sealed properly no matter how hard they rode. Taking a new engine apart to re - ring it is the last thing anyone wants to do, so I recommend a lot of mileage before switching to synthetic. It's really a "better safe than sorry" situation.
Q: My bike comes with synthetic oil from the factory, what should I do ??
A: I recommend changing the factory installed synthetic oil back to petroleum for the break-in period.
Q: What about the main and rod bearings, don't they break - in ??
A: Actually, the operation of plain bearings doesn't involve metal to metal contact !! The shiny spots on used bearings are caused from their contact with the crankshaft journals during start up after the engine has been sitting a while, and the excess oil has drained off. This is the main reason for not revving up the engine when it's first started.
The subject of plain bearings is one of the most mysterious aspects of engines, and will be covered in a future issue of Power News. In it, I'll reveal more information that fully explains the non-contact phenomenon.
Q: Why change the oil at 20 miles ?? Doesn't the oil pick up screen catch the aluminum bits ???
A: It's true that the screen stops the big pieces, but many areas of the engine aren't within the oil filtration system. The oil that is splashed around will circulate metal debris to the lubricated bearing surfaces. For example, transmission gears and their ball bearings are unprotected by the filtration system, and even the cam chain makes a perfect "conveyer belt" to
bring metal debris up into the cylinder head !!
A close examination of a new engine will reveal lots of aluminum deposits on steel parts. This aluminum coats and tightens up the clearances of the parts, which creates a loss of power. Most of the time I spend "blueprinting" an engine is actually inspecting every part and "de-aluminizing" them !!
I prefer to remove the oil pan and clean the aluminum bits out of a new engine out that way, but a $20 oil change is an easy and inexpensive way to flush the initial particles that come loose in the first miles.
Q: Will this break - in method cause my engine to wear out faster ???
A: No, in fact, a poor ring seal will allow an increase in the by products of combustion to contaminate the oil.
Acid contamination and oil consumption are the 2 reliability problems which are the result of an "owner's manual" or "magazine tech article" style easy break-in.
By following the instructions on this page, you'll find that your oil is cleaner and the engine will rev quicker.
Plus, you'll have much better torque and power across the power range from the vastly improved ring seal.
Reliability and Power are 100% connected !!
Last edited by TheTherapist; 11-20-2015 at 11:00 AM.
11-19-2015 | 03:21 PM
#10
That info has valid points. Ring seal is thwarted by synthetic for the reasons stated above and only gets magnified under boosted situations. You need friction to bed or seat the rings. Low weight coventional oil is not going to destroy tolerance unless you live in a cold tundra situation where oil turns to the consistency of molasses. If cold weather is unavoidable then make sure everything is ready to go, preheat the oil in containers, dump it in and fire away. Sounds rediculous but a bunch of us used that method in the cold winter months up north successfully. I make no claim to be an expert and only convey my personal procedures that have worked for me. Call me lucky but never ruined a race or marine motor following these procedures. I'm glad to see you are researching all avenues though... due diligence is key!
11-20-2015 | 06:35 AM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
New cams are the tricky part to break in. High RPM too soon can cause damage. The rings will break in eventually no matter what you do. I suspect your cams and lifters are used, so just use a reasonable and balanced approach and you will be fine.
11-20-2015 | 09:05 AM
#12
Senior Member
It's about 90-100 degrees over most of Australia at the moment so no concern over cold weather for Therapist.
I think if you asked 5 car guys their opinion, you would get 7 different methods as seen here. Go with what the builder of your engine has said. Or, use the one above. That's how I've broken in every motorbike I've owned, and a car. Never missed a beat. I'll caveat that with most of the bikes were singles, one a twin, two were four cylinders.
I'd just recommend you to not take it easy, engines need to be bedded in properly.
I think if you asked 5 car guys their opinion, you would get 7 different methods as seen here. Go with what the builder of your engine has said. Or, use the one above. That's how I've broken in every motorbike I've owned, and a car. Never missed a beat. I'll caveat that with most of the bikes were singles, one a twin, two were four cylinders.
I'd just recommend you to not take it easy, engines need to be bedded in properly.
