Rear main seal, what else?
12-11-2015, 07:56 AM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Agreed-if you have deep pockets why not change everything that is right there in front of you.
12-12-2015, 11:20 AM
#31
Member
My indie said the oil leaks onto the O2 sensor plugs and that is as costly as the rear seal job. It took us 3 hrs to do plus the overnight cure. Not too big a deal with a lift and trans jack.
12-12-2015, 11:58 AM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
this may help --
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...checklist.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...checklist.html
12-12-2015, 09:52 PM
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
12-15-2015, 01:41 AM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
Curing time? You are joking right? This must be some indie riddle. Have changed sooooo many rear mains on the 112/113 motors, never have i ever let it "cure". There is a sealant path that needs to be followed and a special tool to install seal. Job pays 10-12 hours depending on 4matic or not, so in your case 10 hours.
Pulling the transmission is a joke-It isn't even the long part of the job. Cleaning the area of the seal plate is what takes forever, especially the lower corners....
Seal is used to lubricate crankshaft ends, you have a front and rear main seal. Above poster is correct-it is in fact the sealant that goes bad first, usually.
The only reason it would leak after being replace is install/cleaning error. If it takes 10 years for it to leak from the factory, it surely isn't product defect. If cleaned correctly and thoroughly, and correct sealant path used-there shouldn't be any leaks no time soon after repairs.
The white plastic circular disc in the photo btw is not your install tool-be careful for you DIY's, you can easily roll this seal and have to redo the whole job again-and you wont know until the thing is running at operating temperature.
Things I recommend changing to my customers if not changed previously.
1. motor/trans mount
2. transmission connector
3. shifter bushings with new clips
4. hardware/brackets that attach exhaust to trans body
5. replace your indie shop if he only replaces the seal-dumb ahsss-ahhssshole move
Yes rear mains leaking on this generation motor are extremely common. v6 or v8 na or fi...
No real common damage will happen, not to say something can't, but mostly you will just have to add oil ever so often...
Lastly-DO NOT RE-USE THE BOLTS FROM THE OLD PLATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only two should be re-used and those are the super long ones coming from the bottom of the bell housing.....
this is a 3 hour job if he or she knows what they are doing. Usually their level of experience will determine the cost. I personally would do these all day for 500$ plus parts, however I don't own my own business and don't have employees to pay so it'll be more usually whichever shop you go to unless you know someone who will do it for the low on the side....
Good luck!
Pulling the transmission is a joke-It isn't even the long part of the job. Cleaning the area of the seal plate is what takes forever, especially the lower corners....
Seal is used to lubricate crankshaft ends, you have a front and rear main seal. Above poster is correct-it is in fact the sealant that goes bad first, usually.
The only reason it would leak after being replace is install/cleaning error. If it takes 10 years for it to leak from the factory, it surely isn't product defect. If cleaned correctly and thoroughly, and correct sealant path used-there shouldn't be any leaks no time soon after repairs.
The white plastic circular disc in the photo btw is not your install tool-be careful for you DIY's, you can easily roll this seal and have to redo the whole job again-and you wont know until the thing is running at operating temperature.
Things I recommend changing to my customers if not changed previously.
1. motor/trans mount
2. transmission connector
3. shifter bushings with new clips
4. hardware/brackets that attach exhaust to trans body
5. replace your indie shop if he only replaces the seal-dumb ahsss-ahhssshole move
Yes rear mains leaking on this generation motor are extremely common. v6 or v8 na or fi...
No real common damage will happen, not to say something can't, but mostly you will just have to add oil ever so often...
Lastly-DO NOT RE-USE THE BOLTS FROM THE OLD PLATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only two should be re-used and those are the super long ones coming from the bottom of the bell housing.....
this is a 3 hour job if he or she knows what they are doing. Usually their level of experience will determine the cost. I personally would do these all day for 500$ plus parts, however I don't own my own business and don't have employees to pay so it'll be more usually whichever shop you go to unless you know someone who will do it for the low on the side....
Good luck!
12-15-2015, 11:10 AM
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121125624043?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82
above is your trans connector.
your shifter linkage bushings and clips are the bushings that hold the shifter linkage rod to the shifter housing and to the transmission housing. 2 bushings and 2 clips. Bushings wear out after time and begin to make a noise, clunking, when selecting gears. Cheap inexpensive fix. There are a few different styles depending on what transmission.
above is your trans connector.
your shifter linkage bushings and clips are the bushings that hold the shifter linkage rod to the shifter housing and to the transmission housing. 2 bushings and 2 clips. Bushings wear out after time and begin to make a noise, clunking, when selecting gears. Cheap inexpensive fix. There are a few different styles depending on what transmission.
12-15-2015, 12:07 PM
#36
Senior Member
Can I ask a stupid question?....
So, I did a tranny service a few thousand miles ago earlier this summer. I told myself I'd wait until the winter to take my time with doing the rear-main seal...
Am I going to be forced to do another tranny flush for this job? Not necessarily a big deal, but if I don't HAVE to do it, I'd rather not...
So, I did a tranny service a few thousand miles ago earlier this summer. I told myself I'd wait until the winter to take my time with doing the rear-main seal...
Am I going to be forced to do another tranny flush for this job? Not necessarily a big deal, but if I don't HAVE to do it, I'd rather not...
12-15-2015, 01:35 PM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
Can I ask a stupid question?....
So, I did a tranny service a few thousand miles ago earlier this summer. I told myself I'd wait until the winter to take my time with doing the rear-main seal...
Am I going to be forced to do another tranny flush for this job? Not necessarily a big deal, but if I don't HAVE to do it, I'd rather not...
So, I did a tranny service a few thousand miles ago earlier this summer. I told myself I'd wait until the winter to take my time with doing the rear-main seal...
Am I going to be forced to do another tranny flush for this job? Not necessarily a big deal, but if I don't HAVE to do it, I'd rather not...
12-15-2015, 05:48 PM
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hi guys, can I get some good advice?
I have a 2004 S600 with 164,000 miles. Engine runs fine with no issues, but I happen to be doing a transmission rebuild right now. I know its a V12, not a V8, but they look similar from behind.
I was wondering if should replace the engine rear main seal while I have access to it? There's no sign of any leaks, but I'm trying to weigh up the opportunity vs the risks. Is the probability of making it better greater than making it worse?
What do you think? I'm an experienced DIY mechanic, but never done a main seal before.
Cheers, Nick
I have a 2004 S600 with 164,000 miles. Engine runs fine with no issues, but I happen to be doing a transmission rebuild right now. I know its a V12, not a V8, but they look similar from behind.
I was wondering if should replace the engine rear main seal while I have access to it? There's no sign of any leaks, but I'm trying to weigh up the opportunity vs the risks. Is the probability of making it better greater than making it worse?
What do you think? I'm an experienced DIY mechanic, but never done a main seal before.
Cheers, Nick
01-02-2016, 06:26 PM
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
OK, the main seal just came in at my dealer this morning, but the seal plate is some days away. Do I really need to change the plate, given that it isn't leaking itself?
I've done a few lip seals now (transmissions) and it seems straightforward, so long as I don't scratch any sealing surfaces on removal.
Are these things really supposed to be fitted dry? I understand the need for static gaskets to be fitted dry. Its so the gasket doesn't spread under pressure, but this is different. Of the various published procedures I've read, ALL of them say apply some oil.
Cheers, Nick
I've done a few lip seals now (transmissions) and it seems straightforward, so long as I don't scratch any sealing surfaces on removal.
Are these things really supposed to be fitted dry? I understand the need for static gaskets to be fitted dry. Its so the gasket doesn't spread under pressure, but this is different. Of the various published procedures I've read, ALL of them say apply some oil.
Cheers, Nick
01-02-2016, 10:22 PM
#42
OK, the main seal just came in at my dealer this morning, but the seal plate is some days away. Do I really need to change the plate, given that it isn't leaking itself?
I've done a few lip seals now (transmissions) and it seems straightforward, so long as I don't scratch any sealing surfaces on removal.
Are these things really supposed to be fitted dry? I understand the need for static gaskets to be fitted dry. Its so the gasket doesn't spread under pressure, but this is different. Of the various published procedures I've read, ALL of them say apply some oil.
Cheers, Nick
I've done a few lip seals now (transmissions) and it seems straightforward, so long as I don't scratch any sealing surfaces on removal.
Are these things really supposed to be fitted dry? I understand the need for static gaskets to be fitted dry. Its so the gasket doesn't spread under pressure, but this is different. Of the various published procedures I've read, ALL of them say apply some oil.
Cheers, Nick
I have no idea about the back plate or about the dry install on the v12's
This is how ever orginal WIS for the m113K
Heres also the istall tool part# 111 589 08 43 00
http://www.startekinfo.de/etools/con...2008%2043%2000
01-03-2016, 04:27 AM
#43
MBWorld Fanatic!
Many thanks Elhonaz. So no need to use the sealing plate to fit the seal, but it does have to go on dry. Guess I'll get everything really clean first.
The installation tool looks interesting. Just have the short plastic cylinder that the seal sits around (goes on the end of the crank flange). The fitting tool looks like a press tool that mates with the seal plate to control the final position of the seal.
The fitting tool sheet (same too for V12's) says:
Which I think means the new seal should sit slightly inboard of the old seal, on fresh sealing surface.
Thanks, Nick
The installation tool looks interesting. Just have the short plastic cylinder that the seal sits around (goes on the end of the crank flange). The fitting tool looks like a press tool that mates with the seal plate to control the final position of the seal.
The fitting tool sheet (same too for V12's) says:
Installation tool for pressing in the rear crankshaft radial seal into the normal position, and into a position offset 3mm to the inside with part 3 if the crankshaft is worn.
Thanks, Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 01-03-2016 at 12:20 PM.
01-03-2016, 08:32 AM
#44
Well its up to you to swap the plate or not.. i would do it and i did on mine. Just for the sake of its as your allredy there. The tools is exactly how you described, heres a better look at it, in a different engine but its the same tool
http://w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%20...603/03-327.pdf
http://w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%20...603/03-327.pdf
01-03-2016, 01:19 PM
#46
...like i said that is guide is for a completly different engine. I dont have any idea why the want it to be dry, but thats what WIS says. Everyone can do it just how they like. I did it dry.
01-04-2016, 02:15 PM
#47
MBWorld Fanatic!
if the plate is right there i would change it. and the plate leaks too, don't be mistaken just because it's dry now it wont leak in the future. Make sure everything is spotless!!!!
01-04-2016, 04:21 PM
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
I guess I was trying to make life easy for myself and avoid the extra work of replacing the plate (and the risk of causing a new leak where there wasn't one). As well as rebuilding the transmission last month, I also have the other V12 curses to attend to: coil pack, ABC valve block, ignition switch, and spark plugs I suppose :-(
Plus I wasn't sure what sealant to use, but looking around today it seems A003989982010 is the one. I'm told this is Loctite 5970, so I bought a tube of 5980 (a bit more viscous, and specifically intended for gaskets for metal covers, according to Loctite). I also bought an underground drain tube to use as a seal press tool (plus a sink drain fitting to use as an EZS key).
I've decided to remove and replace the seal plate after all; I suppose its easier to get the seal in and out that way. I'll post some pictures up shortly.
Cheers, Nick
Plus I wasn't sure what sealant to use, but looking around today it seems A003989982010 is the one. I'm told this is Loctite 5970, so I bought a tube of 5980 (a bit more viscous, and specifically intended for gaskets for metal covers, according to Loctite). I also bought an underground drain tube to use as a seal press tool (plus a sink drain fitting to use as an EZS key).
I've decided to remove and replace the seal plate after all; I suppose its easier to get the seal in and out that way. I'll post some pictures up shortly.
Cheers, Nick
01-05-2016, 12:08 PM
#49
MBWorld Fanatic!
I guess I was trying to make life easy for myself and avoid the extra work of replacing the plate (and the risk of causing a new leak where there wasn't one). As well as rebuilding the transmission last month, I also have the other V12 curses to attend to: coil pack, ABC valve block, ignition switch, and spark plugs I suppose :-(
Plus I wasn't sure what sealant to use, but looking around today it seems A003989982010 is the one. I'm told this is Loctite 5970, so I bought a tube of 5980 (a bit more viscous, and specifically intended for gaskets for metal covers, according to Loctite). I also bought an underground drain tube to use as a seal press tool (plus a sink drain fitting to use as an EZS key).
I've decided to remove and replace the seal plate after all; I suppose its easier to get the seal in and out that way. I'll post some pictures up shortly.
Cheers, Nick
Plus I wasn't sure what sealant to use, but looking around today it seems A003989982010 is the one. I'm told this is Loctite 5970, so I bought a tube of 5980 (a bit more viscous, and specifically intended for gaskets for metal covers, according to Loctite). I also bought an underground drain tube to use as a seal press tool (plus a sink drain fitting to use as an EZS key).
I've decided to remove and replace the seal plate after all; I suppose its easier to get the seal in and out that way. I'll post some pictures up shortly.
Cheers, Nick
. Parts are just stupid expensive and unless you have sds you can't do alot of things. If you are replacing that valve block you should technically do a "rodeo" following repairs. And for the spark plugs, don't open your coolant circuit!!!!! specifically the turbo side circuit. That thing is a pita to bleed and if there's any air in the system boost will be insufficient. Good luck! 
01-05-2016, 01:33 PM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes, it's been a challenge to keep on the road, and if I'd used garages to do the work, it wouldn't have been viable. Since I've done almost everything myself the cost has been OK.
Everything seems to cost around a hundred pounds - tire, brake, oil, plugs, turbo kit, transmission kit, conductor plate, radiator, fan, battery, engine mounts, ABC accumulator, IC pump, pump controller, etc. This main rear seal will be about the same. Used ABC struts, and the torque converter rebuild were a bit more, but the only big expense has been a new coil pack. Here in the UK at least, some of the major standing costs have actually been quite low - tax, insurance and routine servicing have been similar to an ordinary car.
The problem has been the amount of TIME its taken to keep going. I bought a high mileage car with the intention of taking on a challenge. Yes, I bought a cheap Benz, exactly what you're not supposed to do. Sure, things went wrong, but they were only the same things as everyone else - its just that everything went wrong, not just some of the things. I tell a lie, the transmission selector hasn't got stuck in park, but you get my drift.
I removed the coil pack last night by just moving the intercooler out of the way, but the IC system is no problem any more. I replaced the HE with an E-class engine radiator (four times the size, and it has a bleed port) and I added bleed ports to the IC's, feeding a new swirl pot / header tank, so no more vacuum bleeding!
Yes, ABC is hard to look after (see my sig) but I wouldn't do without it. As long as you have good wheels, tires, bushes and ball joints, it achieves miracles on the road. I'm absolutely smitten with what it can do. Anyway, time to take a picture of my rear main seal....
Nick
Everything seems to cost around a hundred pounds - tire, brake, oil, plugs, turbo kit, transmission kit, conductor plate, radiator, fan, battery, engine mounts, ABC accumulator, IC pump, pump controller, etc. This main rear seal will be about the same. Used ABC struts, and the torque converter rebuild were a bit more, but the only big expense has been a new coil pack. Here in the UK at least, some of the major standing costs have actually been quite low - tax, insurance and routine servicing have been similar to an ordinary car.
The problem has been the amount of TIME its taken to keep going. I bought a high mileage car with the intention of taking on a challenge. Yes, I bought a cheap Benz, exactly what you're not supposed to do. Sure, things went wrong, but they were only the same things as everyone else - its just that everything went wrong, not just some of the things. I tell a lie, the transmission selector hasn't got stuck in park, but you get my drift.
I removed the coil pack last night by just moving the intercooler out of the way, but the IC system is no problem any more. I replaced the HE with an E-class engine radiator (four times the size, and it has a bleed port) and I added bleed ports to the IC's, feeding a new swirl pot / header tank, so no more vacuum bleeding!
Yes, ABC is hard to look after (see my sig) but I wouldn't do without it. As long as you have good wheels, tires, bushes and ball joints, it achieves miracles on the road. I'm absolutely smitten with what it can do. Anyway, time to take a picture of my rear main seal....
Nick
