Stop drinking the cool-aid on top mount intercoolers.....
#26
#28
Super Member
The back side of both surge tanks where the intakes tubes are located were cut off and welded with a plate on each side. I placed an extra MAP sensor on the passenger side and an extra IAT sensor on the driver side. I left the original map sensor and IAT sensor in their factory locations to keep the holes closed. I can switch back and forth to test the efficiency of the set up.
#29
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Thanks for your contribution! You're right it does look like horse ****. But, daam I bet it hauls *** with those IATS. Yea you lost a little boost but, holding that ignition timing from going full retard. I suppose is the key! Never go full retard.
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
#30
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Thread Starter
I always wondered if the back of the surge tanks were shaped only with space constraints in mind or if there was a reason for a taller ceiling than the inlet tube. Potentially, loading air into the surge tanks in a way unlike stock is what was making the early top mount attempts so difficult to tune. Obviously if you've cut that all away and it's not fumbling under load then that's not the case. Good work
These are the first surge tanks hacked. If you notice, both back bolts are close to being removed to save space. Fabricator got a little excited and welded the holes (we talked on how he could save the holes and to modify the one intercooler inlet to allow access to its bolt. He forgot. lol) I went ahead and experimented with this to see if a good Loctite gasket maker and factory gasket would hold the pressure. It did. Not ideal.....but it worked.
The plates are AWESOME for whatever sensors that you would like to use.
#32
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#33
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
Lower boost can be a function of better flow or cooler air depending on where the boost reading is taken. You can have lower boost but more power so boost is not really the best measurement to determine how well this modification works.
Is boost measured at the intake port or is it measured between the supercharger and intercooler on the 55k or after the intercooler? IAT and boost would be an applicable measurement for this test.
Is boost measured at the intake port or is it measured between the supercharger and intercooler on the 55k or after the intercooler? IAT and boost would be an applicable measurement for this test.
#34
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Thread Starter
Lower boost can be a function of better flow or cooler air depending on where the boost reading is taken. You can have lower boost but more power so boost is not really the best measurement to determine how well this modification works.
Is boost measured at the intake port or is it measured between the supercharger and intercooler on the 55k or after the intercooler? IAT and boost would be an applicable measurement for this test.
Is boost measured at the intake port or is it measured between the supercharger and intercooler on the 55k or after the intercooler? IAT and boost would be an applicable measurement for this test.
On a side note.........lets talk meth/water injection. My battle for IAT control is pretty much over now. I have a 8 gph meth/water nozzle pre-supercharger and two 3gph (one per side, of course) nozzles right after the top mount intercooler core. 75% water to meth dropped my 20 degrees above ambient heak soak to 8 degrees above ambient up to 150 mph. Outside temp was 68 degrees.
Maybe some of you all figured out how to control your IAT's up to this point......but I haven't until now. Dialing in my meth/water pressure and experimenting with different nozzles could actually get me below ambient while racing without ice. That's my goal and I'm sticking to it.
#38
Would an even larger U shaped intercooler fit?
Or would yet another intercooler fit by replacing the metal tubes going on the outside?
Underhood intake is not so bad since intercooler is much more efficient.
Or would yet another intercooler fit by replacing the metal tubes going on the outside?
Underhood intake is not so bad since intercooler is much more efficient.
#39
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Thread Starter
I'm with you on this, brother. My fabricator is not full time and recently declined to fabricate my future projects. Apparently, I'm too picky. Whatever. lol (The guy is a good friend of mine) I wished I had the time and proper channels to put this system together for people......but I don't. I might hand this over to the powers of Anthony Lawshee and Shardul to make it what it should be. I'm throwing sh*t together with the help of other's past failures, ideas from the experienced and reading up on the basic physics of the task at hand. (trial and error, of course) I have dumped thousands in this project with hundreds of hours that I can't get back.
As you all can tell by my pic......that set-up is ugly, bulky and a complete hack job. Let me add for the record, that set -up is the first working prototype. lol
Let me explain why I haven't shown you all the details of this system yet.....
1) I have 14 intercooler pipes that are joined together by 4-ply couplers.....not properly welded.
2) That set-up is so tight in the engine bay that you have to gently close the hood. Like stand on the hood until it latches kinda gentle?
3) I'm running a heat exchanger 1/5th of the size of the factory's heat exchanger for TWO intercoolers that are EACH the same size as factory? (my cruising IATs are @4 degrees higher because of this)
4) I'm running one intercooler pump for TWO intercoolers.
5) The intercooler hoses are thrown together and are not good for water flow
6) Reservoir for the factory intercooler? Its made out of sewage pvc and a pressure testing cap. Yeah, some things you can't unread.
7) 3" round intake tubes in the pic are too big and not worth the space they hog up. (currently rubbing against firewall fuel line grommet) Currently working on options of 3" oval stainless or 2.75" round aluminum tubing for better fitment
8) I need to find out if the W219 engine bay is identical to you all's W211.
April 2nd will be put up or shut-up time for me. Let's see if this can work in mid to low 90 degree humid weather for a ***** to the wall mile run. My runs have not been in those temps and not up to 180 mph, yet.......
Last edited by EREBUS; 03-08-2016 at 01:09 AM.
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
[QUOTE=EREBUS;6731078]I'm with you on this, brother. My fabricator is not full time and recently declined to fabricate my future projects. Apparently, I'm too picky. Whatever. lol
LMAO I wonder why he would say that.
jk
You deserve a lot of credit, done what others only talked about. Try to get some video action from your next outing!
LMAO I wonder why he would say that.
![Stick Out Tongue](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
You deserve a lot of credit, done what others only talked about. Try to get some video action from your next outing!
#41
Super Member
That too, was my biggest worry. I originally had a 2" section of aluminum honeycomb before the surge tanks to assist with turbulence (laminar flow project with my son). Had a hard time securing it (had to use epoxy) and decided to cut and weld multiple 1/2" thin walled tubing to make a stronger flow stabilizer. I was tired of waiting on them to be finished and decided to proceed without it and test it. The intercooler cores smoothed the flow enough to avoid using my "stabilizer".
These are the first surge tanks hacked. If you notice, both back bolts are close to being removed to save space. Fabricator got a little excited and welded the holes (we talked on how he could save the holes and to modify the one intercooler inlet to allow access to its bolt. He forgot. lol) I went ahead and experimented with this to see if a good Loctite gasket maker and factory gasket would hold the pressure. It did. Not ideal.....but it worked.
The plates are AWESOME for whatever sensors that you would like to use.
These are the first surge tanks hacked. If you notice, both back bolts are close to being removed to save space. Fabricator got a little excited and welded the holes (we talked on how he could save the holes and to modify the one intercooler inlet to allow access to its bolt. He forgot. lol) I went ahead and experimented with this to see if a good Loctite gasket maker and factory gasket would hold the pressure. It did. Not ideal.....but it worked.
The plates are AWESOME for whatever sensors that you would like to use.
Lower boost can be a function of better flow or cooler air depending on where the boost reading is taken. You can have lower boost but more power so boost is not really the best measurement to determine how well this modification works.
Is boost measured at the intake port or is it measured between the supercharger and intercooler on the 55k or after the intercooler? IAT and boost would be an applicable measurement for this test.
Is boost measured at the intake port or is it measured between the supercharger and intercooler on the 55k or after the intercooler? IAT and boost would be an applicable measurement for this test.
3) I'm running a heat exchanger 1/5th of the size of the factory's heat exchanger for TWO intercoolers that are EACH the same size as factory? (my cruising IATs are @4 degrees higher because of this)
4) I'm running one intercooler pump for TWO intercoolers.
Just goes to show where the bottleneck truly was, and how little all other cooling mods have done
7) 3" round intake tubes in the pic are too big and not worth the space they hog up. (currently rubbing against firewall fuel line grommet) Currently working on options of 3" oval stainless or 2.75" round aluminum tubing for better fitment
I would calculate the optimal volume based on the throttle body used. The throttle body is the air restriction so it will dictate your tubing size
4) I'm running one intercooler pump for TWO intercoolers.
Just goes to show where the bottleneck truly was, and how little all other cooling mods have done
7) 3" round intake tubes in the pic are too big and not worth the space they hog up. (currently rubbing against firewall fuel line grommet) Currently working on options of 3" oval stainless or 2.75" round aluminum tubing for better fitment
I would calculate the optimal volume based on the throttle body used. The throttle body is the air restriction so it will dictate your tubing size
#42
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Oh, your hood clearance issue, do you still have the hood blanket in there?
#43
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Thread Starter
This pic (below) is what we were using to duplicate bolt channel.(exactly what you said to do)
Dual heat exchangers or top mount intercoolers? Either way, ask away on what NOT to do. I've have tons of failures to assist you on. lol
#44
Super Member
Thread Starter
The big issue with the W211 engine bay is the damn firewall. It is so tight right there behind the throttle body. I made my y-pipe out of silicone so I can actually install it. It does look like there is room to, ahem, reshape it with a ball peen hammer. The metal also looks thin enough to be able to be notched with some tin shears or a cutting wheel. That's my last resort because I can't just undo that.
Tin shears work awesome, for the record
Yeah, I'm afraid to remove it and have the engine heat mess up the paint. Removing it would allow the hood to close without an issue, though. Should I?
#45
Super Member
Thread Starter
My fabricator decided he does not want to do this for production. Lazy comes to mind?
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
So here you go with what I'm working with. These intercoolers have the Bell Intercooler cores. The Chinese cores are not even close in quality to the Bell's. lol
I will be breaking it all down for the red powder coating tonight and will post more pictures when I put it all back together.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#46
looks bad *** too me
looks like an iron lung with a jarvic 7 on it
looks like an iron lung with a jarvic 7 on it
Last edited by a100steaksauce; 03-08-2016 at 05:44 PM.
#47
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#49
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How much extra room did you make with the metal shears? I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one afraid to try out a hair-brained idea.
#50
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![EEK!](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
I will take pictures tonight and post them