MACEDON

What sort of place do you guys go to for an alignment? Would something like Firestone be sufficient?

Dublinoh

If you went to a non-specialized alignment shop, I would at least bring the proper settings for your AMG. I would be concerned that you would get generic w211 otherwise.

bbirdwell

Perform an internet search for your local autocross club; they might even have a FaceBook page. Anyone who is a serious autocrosser will know where the best shop is located in your area. There were only two individuals in San Antonio who I regarded as technically competent to perform alignments while also keeping my steering wheel straight.

FWIW, I now perform all my own alignments. It takes a bit longer using strings versus using a computerized laser setup, but it is accurate so long as one pays attention to detail. Heck, compared to a Miata, the Mercedes suspension has virtually no adjustability.

MACEDON

I wouldn't be opposed to doing it myself actually... and that's a good point, I know a guy in the area with a very fast AMG I'll shoot him a message.

Let me look up to see what it takes to do it myself...

hayseed

iTrader: (2)

call your dealer, they are not that much more than firestone if not the same price and they "should" know what they are doing on these cars

compaddict

iTrader: (1)

I go to my race car guy. He can look at the wear patterns and adjust the toe for max life.

MACEDON

See... how the hell do I find a race car guy lol

compaddict

iTrader: (1)

Hah! Easy, ask around different shops. Most anyone with a rack has a guy that does race cars or higher end alignments.
Or just as for a rack monkey that will adjust toe based on wear and not specs.
Vince

tw2

My dealer does a great job, I just go there now. They have lots of experience replacing the ball joints and dialing them in.

MACEDON

Even the closest dealer is an hour away... might have to call them to find out how much it costs in the US.

I'm thinking about doing the lower control arm/ball joints meself then to take it in to get aligned. Unless I somehow figure out how to adjust it so it doesn't eat the inside of my front tires so quickly by "feel"

bbirdwell

Here is what I use. The only difference is I now use nylon mono-filament as it is more accurate.
Camber I set by calibrating the ride height (it's in the "STAR DIY section") and perhaps overcompensated using KMac bushings up front. I use Shardul's toe arms in the rear. You cannot see it but there is one floor tile under the driver side front tire to accurately level the car (using a water level and my Smart Camber tool). After calibrating the suspension, about all you can adjust is the toe on these cars. If you lower your car, you're going to have increased wear on the inner tread but it should not be ridiculous.
FWIW, using this setup, I pulled 30,000 miles out of my rear tires (would have been more but I failed to properly torque a lock nut on one rear toe arm and it came loose) and pulled 36,000 miles out of my front tires and still had not reached any wear bars. Not too bad for strings, PVC pipe, and a clear plastic ruler marked in milllimeters....if you want some tips, let me know. I generally allow myself 3 hours to adjust everything, then spend the next three days adjusting the steering wheel at the end of the day to ensure it is absolutely straight, then put a quick 1 1/2 hour final verification of the toe.

nanayaw6

That's amazing life out of your tires at 30k+. Very impressive. How have the kmac front bushings been treating you? Any noises or squeaks and how long have you been running them?
Also, how are you able to set your reference point for the strings before you start adjusting. In other words, how are you setting up your zero point with the strings so from there you can adjust whichever wheel is out of your desired spec?

PJmak

Whats a good toe setting for a mercedes in your opinion? Especially when lowered

compaddict

iTrader: (1)

I think all cars are different and there might not be a "one spec" fits all.. Especially as these cars age out. What worked for me was seeing the wear and adjusting based on that.
Renee's 2005 SL55 is munching through a set of fronts right now, and before we change out to the new set of nineteens I will bring it in and have it adjusted.
Love the "string method"!

bbirdwell

KMac front bushings were installed 1 year and 11 months ago. 37,000 miles on them with no issues to date. Following is for Macedon but I bolded the sections concerning how I set my zero points. Everything has to be perfectly square. My car is stock ride height so I cannot speak to lowered cars but would expect them to be similar.

-For alignments, first time one should verify of levelness of floor, I used plastic tubing filled with water with the ends taped to the sides of the tires. If water is higher on one side, that side is lower. I just jacked up the tire and placed floor tiles underneath the tire until the water level indicated I had reached a level point. For my garage, that is two floor tiles under the left front and one floor tile under the left rear. So, whenever I align my car there, I use floor tiles in those locations.
-PVC pipes I use each have two thin grooves cut in them *exactly* 1830mm apart. When a half mm counts, accuracy is important here! The nylon mono-filament is laid into these grooves. I can hear someone ask, "So why did you choose 1830 mm?" Good question. It happened to be the length of a steel bar that I had. It had sufficient length and allowed me to accurately cut the grooves in the PVC.
-I have a bunch(!) of 12" squares cut from leftover cabinet grade plywood 3/4" thick (Use whatever is handy for you). I find that 6" under the tires is sufficient for me to get underneath to adjust; it's tight but do-able. Each stack is topped by two sheets of thin aluminum plate with salt between the plates. This allows the tire to rotate more easily when adjusting toe. Different from the photo previously I now use the stacked wood on each corner because I have a Quick-Jack that enables me to lower the car onto the stacks. Also, if you use the aluminum squares, round the corners! I don't need to explain how sharp they can be when your head is under the car...
-Lift car, set on blocks or drive on ramps and then place rear on blocks; multiple ways to do this. Raise and lower the car a couple of times using the lift button to settle the suspension.
-Ensure steering wheel is straight and tied down.
-Strings need to be on a horizontal line across the center of the wheel; I use the center point of the MB star as my reference point.
-Adjust PVC pipe to approximate height, lay nylon monofilament in the grooves of the PVC pipe front and rear, I use 5 # weights at each end. Adjust height so strings cross the center of the wheel.
-Now the fun part, shift the front or rear PVC pipes side-to-side so you have equal distance from the center of the wheel to the lines on each side (e.g. 47mm right front, 47mm left front, equal distance side-to-side for rear). Set front, go to rear, adjust, go back to front, go back to rear, lather, rinse repeat until everything is squared up. Again, a half mm error here can invalidate all future work. The more accurate you are here the more accurate your final settings will be. (And it is usually about this time I trip over it and curse and go back to square one!).
-My wheels are 495mm in diameter from edge to edge. So, with front toe angle recommended from 0.03 to 0.13 degrees, I want a little less than half-way, so I target 0.06 degrees. Tangent(0.06)*495mm=0.51mm. So, when I measure the rear of the front wheel distance from the string (using a see-through plastic ruler so I can see the nylon monofilament above or below depending upon light) and I get, let's say, 11mm, then I want the front to be inward by an additional 0.5mm. If the rear is 11mm and front 11.5mm, I'm good. If not, I adjust the tie-rod end until I get a difference of 0.5mm. Remember, the wheel will move but you want to end up with Xmm rear of wheel and X+0.5mm on the front of the wheel.
-Hard-learned lesson, once the first front is set, remember those measurements! Go to other side, measure, adjust once, then go back to the first side and "thump" the tire until the wheel is back to the previously remembered measurement. Then go back to the second wheel and measure it again to see where your adjustment got you. When you adjust one wheel, it invariably moves the other so be sure to reset the first wheel with each and every adjustment on the second wheel. Eventually I should end up with both wheels at Xmm rear and X+0.5mm front.
-Rear wheels are easier as they do not interact with each other. I have to lower the exhaust to get to the toe-arm end even with Shardul's UPD toe arms. FWIW, I love those suckers! Much easier to set rear toe compared the stock toe adjusters! Note: the UPD toe arms need 32mm and 28mm open-end wrenches.
-I find that no matter what, the steering wheel may be slightly canted to one side. I drive it to and from work for a day, take note of the offset, park the front of the car on ramps, and adjust both front tie-rod ends in the same direction (measure twice, cut once. Be sure which way you need to rotate the tie-rod end and try to ensure each side is adjusted the same, i.e. 45 or 90 degree pull of the wrench on each side). This pulls the steering into alignment but will likely end up screwing up your toe settings slightly. Live with it for the next couple of days until you're happy with the alignment of the steering wheel.
------- (This is what got me into performing my own alignments. The tech would drive the car around the parking lot and say, "good enough". On the drive home after picking it up at the end of the day I discover the steering wheel is canted and I can't take another day off to return it to the shop.)
-Once happy with the steering wheel, I'll break out the alignment setup again and verify the front wheels. Usually takes an adjustment of about 1/2 mm on one or the other side and goes quickly. Remember to verify both sides as mentioned above.

Slow and meticulous measurements. I'll spend about 2 1/2 hours for a four-corner alignment, about an hour for a single corner, maybe 15 minutes per evening on the steering wheel alignment, and then an hour or less on the final check. I don't measure off the centerline of the car, I don't use a $5000 laser alignment machine (but I would if I could afford one and had the room!). Not for everyone but it is an alternative to taking it to the shop. And the accuracy using thin nylon mono-filament and a good see-through ruler marked in millimeters is rather remarkable. About twice a year I'll set this up to verify alignment; if all is good, I put it away. If not, time to go to work on the errant corner. The rear is easier to align because they are independent but requires lowering the exhaust; those nuts under the rear bumper are a PITA to reach! The front is easier to reach but requires a lot of back and forth between the sides.

-For the W211, front toe is 0.03 to 0.13 degrees. With my 495mm diameter wheels, this corresponds to 0.25mm to 1.12mm toe in (front of wheel closer to centerline of car than the rear of the wheel). Recommended total toe is 0.06 to 0.26 degrees; my choice puts me about 0.12 degrees total toe.
-Rear toe is 0.05 to 0.29 degrees which corresponds with my wheels to 0.43mm to 2.5mm. I target 0.14 which: tangent(0.14)*495=1.21mm. So, I target 1.2 mm toe in per side in the rear. Total toe recommendation is 0.21 to 0.45 degrees; my choice puts me about 0.28 degrees total toe.
-FWIW, the 20# monofilament I use is 0.45mm thick so I can use that to visually estimate that last 0.2mm. Use the inside of the string, use the outside of the string, or use the middle of the string; just be consistent and use the same reference point when measuring. i.e. don't measure one side using the inside of the string and the other side using the outside of the string; that's a 0.45mm difference in your meaurements.

Be advised worn ball joints or bushings will invalidate everything above. The car will align in a static environment but under dynamic road conditions, the wheels will move around. The indication of this on my car was severe instability in the rain and both inside and outside edges of the tires were "chunking" or "peeling" simultaneously. I had bad bushings right rear, two bad ball joints and a bad bushing right front, one bad ball joint and bad bushings left front. And this was at 99,000 miles.

Okay, someone asked me the time and I explained how to build a freakin' clock. Hope this helps and if anyone has better ideas, feel free to toss them in the ring!

MACEDON

Holy **** that's a long write up! Maybe you should make it it's own thread???? Thank you Barry! I gotta take some time to read through it later today since I'm at work right now

maui

Wow is all I can say, as figuring this out is amazing. I may try to duplicate it only because attempting to find quality work is difficult and next to impossible here in Hawaii.
I am a do it yourselfer and have exactly zero trips to stealerships in over a decade and a half. It is worth the grief to follow a trail like this and will do so if necessary.

I am not clear about the adjustment bolts. If I understand correctly they do not come with them from factory and installing may require moving coil springs out of the way to insert
cam bolts at least in two of the four up front. Can you please clarify this?

Rigging up a precise frame would be worth the effort for precise work. Paying for the job only to find it was not done properly is par for the course and would be stupid on new Pilot Sport AS tires...

bbirdwell

Since you have the W210 I recommend using the flat-plate spring compressor to take some of the pressure off the control arms. No need to remove the spring (unless you just want to do so) but if the spring is not compressed to relieve pressure it is a PITA to knock out the old bolts and insert the new. To check your camber, first use a water level to account for your garage floor possibly not being level and then use floor tiles under tires as necessary to adjust for level. Cut a piece of square aluminum tubing so it will fit across the wheel but not contact the tire. Download an inclinometer app to your cell phone and calibrate the app/cell phone combination. Lay the tubing vertically across the wheel, use cell phone inclinometer app to read camber. Good enough for government work and a heck of a lot cheaper than the SmartCamber gauge I purchased years ago before cell phone apps.
Example here based on my W210:
Right front camber measured -1.4 degrees versus specs of maximum -1.1 and minimum of -0.5 degrees. On the W210 the rear bolt affects camber primarily, caster secondly. Front bolt affects caster primarily, camber secondly. I installed the rear eccentric bolt with groove towards center of car; camber then measured -1.1 degrees. I decided to trade caster for camber. To do this I installed the front bolt with the slot facing away from the center of the car. This "swings the lever" which effectively pushed in the bottom of the wheel. Camber at that time measured -0.7 degrees.
I like the idea of rigging up a proper frame. That would save quite a bit on setup time.

SGTzAMG

go to dealership.

Kebowers47

Alignment Details. An important detail but often not checked is wheel/tire straightness and roundness. The light allow low profile wheels are surprisingly easy to bend and unless you CHECK each wheel you might have 4 different wheel/tire conditions. It is COMMON to have tire mounting non-uniformity especially if the beads/rim were not lubricated when first inflating them. This is in addition to the straightness (vertical and horizontal run-out of each side) of the wheels.

One can debate forever about just how 'precise' the wheel 'alignment' needs to be for everyday driving. Max performance competitive racing on a good (smooth and uniform) race track DOES require absolutely precise settings of alignment, tire inflation pressure, tire diameter and every other possible variable.

Our MBZ autos are designed to allow substantial suspension movement "compliance" to absorb road generated 'harshness and vibration' and significant size 'bumps' , isolating the occupants 'butt" from the road surface. The 'higher' the handling performance precision wanted, the less 'compliance' allowed. But 'racing quality' suspension is much too 'uncomfortable' for everyday street driving.

MBZ has done a magnificent job of reaching a very very good COMPROMISE in their suspension design. The number and placement of suspension members and the design of the 'rubber' bushings serve to minimize the need for steering 'corrections' when driving over uneven road surfaces, especially on curving roads. Our vehicles 'hold the intended line' with minimal driver input much much better than most vehicles while keeping us nicely isolated from bumps and holes.

WDB124023

Hello friends.
I'm going down the same road about wheel alignment in these days with my WDB210262/ MY 2002, and find a lot of info in in the thread, but as far as I can see there is one important issue missing in the procedure of the monofilament lines calibration so they should be exactly at the same distance from the axels on each side of the car.

The fact that many MB models have different track values on front and rear axels has to be taken into the calculation to achieve the strings on both sides to be absolutely in parallel.
Given your vehicle have front track is 1567 mm and the rear is 1560 mm, these 7 mm difference has to be taken into consideration when you line up the strings.
That means the measure on the rear should be 3,5mm more on both sides than the measure at the front to make the strings in perfectly parallels.

You can of course do the measuring for lineup on the rims outside, but if you have rims with the 5 small holes between the bolt holes you actually have access direct into the flange on the hub and that is the place for the most precisely measure.
In this way you will eliminate all kinds of influence of the various rim configuration that might be on the vehicle.

rusbel

I had mine done at the dealer. it was only 55 more dollars than a local CarX and firestone were charging...i paid 150

E63007

I might add to bbirdwell’s magnificent DIY instructions for Alignment by suggesting to measure, adjust, then to Center the Steering wheel to “0.0” for those that have Star/Xentry, then measure again by first verifying the distance the nylon filament is away from the center hubcaps, as whenever you “Center” the SW, the front end can move so as to effect the distance away the HUB Cap is from the filament.

After reading and re-reading Mr. B’s instructions, it occurs to me that mention of the different “Track Width” between front and rear axles was not mentioned. On my 2007 E63, the rear axle is 9mm Wider than the front, so one must take that into consideration when taking their measurements from the hub to the filament line. As such, whereas the distance from the hubcap on the rear to the line might be 10mm, the front should measure 14.5mm, otherwise the “alignment lines” would NOT be exactly Parallel and would yield an incorrect result in the end!

In order to get an exact centering of the steering wheel, one can use their Xentry, an absolute requirement if you’re ever going to tackle major “issues” with your Mercedes DIY. To get to that “place” in Xentry, you have to do the “Quicktest”, then scroll down to SCM (iirc?-just look for the word Steering!) then verify (Y/N) if you have “Speed Control”, then scroll to “Actuations” and select “Steering Wheel Position” and leave that open during your entire process as after each adjustment, the position will slightly go off center. I’ll rotate the wheel back and forth to allow any adjustment to settle-in, and then measure the front side of the bead of the rim and then the rear side. I didn’t “bump” the Tire of the previous side to get it back to previous measurement, but I can see the wisdom in this in both instances whether one has use of Xentry or Not! As Mr B mentioned, I also use a metric yardstick to measure from the hubcaps to the filament and Digital Caliper to measure from the rim to the filament as the measurement is in the hundredths of a mm. By using the pin, instead of the Caliper Forks, which extends outward from the rulers edge as the Calipers are expanded, one can use that as the contact point to the rim and line up the filament in-line with the Calipers ruler flat edge shortening the length of the pin until the filament touches that flat edge, then back off until it just brushes with no movement of the filament to find a measurement. I find myself having to hold my breath to maintain a steady position before getting that final measurement.

In the end, as per Mr. B’s instructions, I was shooting for 0.5 mm Diff between front and rear of the rim (ie-more distance away from the filament alignment line on the front rim than the rear!). This is where it gets real tricky because as you hone in toward those numbers, invariably you will over correct and have to go back and correct. Even tightening the Lock Nut and hair more on one side will effect the measurement. If you center the steering wheel with Xentry, every time you turn it so it measures 0.0 (Center), by so doing, your measurements WILL change on each wheel! This is where Mr. B wisdom about bumping the previous side to its previous measured setting away from the line comes in handy because as you adjust one side, it very well could be yanking the other side so unless you bump that previous side back, assuming doing so doesn’t knock the SW off center, you are less likely to get a perfect measurement on the side you are currently working on.