stephens

I have posted this information as food for thought to anyone who has, or is considering modifying their car. I have a lot of time and money invested in developing my own car, so I thought it appropriate to share in an attempt to enable owners to make informed decisions in modifying their own cars.

Standard boost is 0.8bar = 11.8psi. I don't care what the specs say, this is the measured boost in a standard car.
Renntech MKB et al increase boost to about 14psi, a 20% increase.
We have run boost as high as 15psi and seen torque figures as high as 750lbft, but the charge cooling circuit cannot cope with the heat produced by standard boost for more than about 12seconds, so unless you are going to do more than a pulley this is pointless.
In other words, a STANDARD E55 will start loosing power under full load after approximately 6 seconds, after 10 seconds the decrease is noticeable after 15 seconds it is huge, because of the huge increase in air intake temperatures.
Adding a pulley kit will give you realistically no more than 10 seconds of additional power, but will also signifcantly increase the thermal loads seen by the car (this is a bad thing).

SL/CL/S55's have two low temp cooling radiators, one small, one large, so don't have this same issue, where the E55 only has the small one. see diag below.


My recommendation is that upgrades on the E55 require an additional low temp radiator to be fitted for both the longevity and reliability of the motor as well also to maximise power, by lowering the air intake temps to their original target values.

The standard ECU is capable of adapting fueling etc, by itself to cope with the addition of a larger pulley. The car reads AFR ratios in real time and changes its tables if neccessary to ensure the mixture etc stays at the predetermined target values. This is why Kleemann for so long was able to do SC upgrades without ECU modifications.

ECU modifcations required are dependent on the boost being used and should remap throttle response timing and fueling target values, to maintain drivability and optimise power. I would suggest anybody considering a "cheap chip" think again, because there is a lot of R&D involved in setting up the ECU properly. I would go so far as to suggest that you can tell immediately when driving the car whether an ECU is properly setup, but you won't know any better if you have never driven a car with one that is.
Ultimately it would be best to have the ECU remapped on both dyno and road with an operator that has specialist experience with the SC'd cars.

awiner

Excellent info Stephens. A bunch of us were discussing this very issue at the last get toghter we had here in So. California last weekend.

I wonder why Mercedes decided to drop the larger 'low temp cooler' on the E55......

stephens

$$$$

draggingcents2

What cooling system should I buy? Does anyone know a tuner with computer and dyno to help get car tuned properly that is in the Orange Califonia area?

Cooling sounds like the first mod that should be done? I am ready to start mods.

Vadim @ evosport

stephens: Great info!

Our EVOLUTION I Power package is ready. We will be posting press release on Monday. (460 + RWHP).

e55 baller

Vadim,

Please send me the info on this. Also for benchmark comparison can you fill in the pre (stock) post (pullies/chip) by upgrade for both rwhp and rwtq?

Thanks,
Isaac

AMGe55

Will the large low temp radiator that is in the SL/CL/S55's fit in the E55? From the diagrams it looks like it would be simple to add it in but will it fit?

stephens

Not that I can see and I've had an E55 and S55 side by side. In any event you will need to reroute the oil cooler and lines that sit infron of the radiator as well.

Kens-E55

Stephens:
Thanks for the great tech info and the stats on the performance upgrades. Am I do take from this that here in HOT S.Florida, the upgrade is reallly limited to maybe 10 to 12 second bursts? How long does it take for the intercooler to "catch" up to cooling the charge again. A few secs, a mile, even longer? Your expertise is appreciated before I pull the trigger and drop the "jing" for the upgrade. Are there any ways realistically to spend maybe $1000 extra and get the larger cooler added in-line somewhere under the hood? A more efficient cooler may relate to a little bit more boost???? Even another .5-1 psi. That would mean another 30-40 xtra rwhp & tq. What are your thoughts in your experience with this?

Thanks for your knowledge on this!!

stephens

In hot conditions you would expect to see around 5 secs of boost before heat starts robbing power. I am having a re-engineered cooling circuit designed at the moment that should be ready for testing this week. I am not expecting a big increase in peak power, you would need a more efficient charge cooler for that, but hopefully will be able to maintain power until under constant SC load without heatsoaking.

draggingcents2

If an one knows what is up with fiting a better cooling please advise.

saber

I would invest in the increased cooling capability before anything else but it sounds like there are no alternatives yet.

stephens

Update on cooling issues.
I was fortunate enough to make the acquaintance of a senior development engineer working for an International company specializing in forced induction performance systems, who helped decide on the course of action to follow, along with a generous offer of help with testing facilites.

I will have a S55 low temp radiator installed on Saturday. Rather than having the radiators installed in series as MB does in previous diagram, we will be running them in parallel with a second electric pump. Both pumps will be converted to run off a thermostically actuated switch rather than the SAM module, meaning that although they will not be running all the time, they will see a greater duty cycle than the standard units.
Finally the SC recovery circuit will be separated from the engine cooling circuit.
After the mods I will do some runs comparing AIT and AFR to see if the problem is licked. If so, I can probably arrange kits for anyone that is interested.
I also have headers being made up, that replace the factory exhaust manifolds, bolting up to the standard exhaust system without modifications.
Once everything is finnished I will being getting the car re-dynoed at a state of the art dyno facility that boasts over 100,000CFM of fan capacity. Talking to the head of design tonight, they spent over 100K on fans alone for the dyno room!
The dyno is the latest Dyno Dynamics running what is known as "shoot out mode" software, which gives roughly the same figures as the US based Dynojet.
I am hoping to see around 520+hp at the rear wheel with this setup.
The final step will be replacing the stock AMG charge cooler with a Laminova unit as used by Kleemann. My new friend has access to lots of cool kit, along with the development and manufacturing facilities to put them all together properly.

ColorChange

Damn Stephens, sounds awesome. I don't plan on tuning my E55 but will do big tuning on my tt. If I was going after the E55, I would definitely be following in your footsteps.

draggingcents2

Stephens, Great job if you need any thing I would love to help. I love the E55 but was considering a SL600 because of the turbos and tuning. I will stay foucused on E55 now. Let me know when kit is ready.

Brandon @ Kleemann

Incorrect-

NA engine with SC:

KLEEMANN adresses fuel delivery outside the ECU so a larger volume is available during injection under boost. There is no "room" in a stock map to compensate for 50% + more airflow. By the same token there is no "room" to adjust injector on-time to over 22 ms- the injector is open 100% this point. Fuel VOLUME must be addressed.

AMG SC engine:

The speed denisty metering system on a AMG SC car connot significantly add fuel for any tuning upgrade safely. The fuel system on these cars is a dual pressure system with variable volume capability. On times of the injectors can be adjusted to handle boost systems, headers, camshafts etc. Any ME system will attempt a compensation to reach an AF target if the operating parameters are in closed loop. The system CANNOT adjust infinitely, it is limited to approx +/- 25% base map, over this amount a fuel trim fault will illuminate the MIL.

Stock vs Stage 1 vs Stage 2 dyno shown. Both Stages require differnt ECU mapping to perform correctly. DynoJet 248C with hopelessly small cooling fan system (see article in BOOST magazine).

stephens

Brandon

I defer to your knowledge of the Kleemann system, but as to the AMG, I believe you are mistaken.
I was under the impression that the AMG does not even use an MFA, it uses a manifold pressure sensor. I didn't think air speed/volume was measured.
The AMG will run an AFR of 10 in an upgraded car with a standard ECU if AIT rise above 50 degrees C. The real proble is the car wants to run too rich. (I don't ant to get into an argument about the high AIT being a symptom of another problem. That is the original purpose of this thread)
An upgraded car will run on a standard ECU with no problems as long as you use good quality fuel. It is less than ideal, but it does work as I previously posted. I have dyno runs with AFR readings to substantiate my comments. Do I think you should run with a standard ECU? No way, I have spent 12 months now working with Powerchip developing the software on my car. I don't do it myself nor would I recommend anyone else to do so, the improvement in driveability alone on the upgraded car makes it worthwhile, not to mention the power increase.

mbprince

great thread - lots of good useable tech data here!!

as I sit and await my powerchip/evo upgrade, there is much food for thought.

Brandon @ Kleemann

Speed density is the term used to describe a fuel system which uses no MAF, but rather a MAP and throttle position / engine speed to calculate air flow.

As to the rest of your comments, I couldnt agree more.

Programming is a must for driveability, proper fueling etc- much less Vmax etc etc.

stephens

A further update, I recieved an '04 E55 an SL55 and an S55 for upgrading today (I have been getting regular requests from local AMG owners for upgrades).
The SL55 has ONE SC radiator, the bottom one is an oil cooler, I think (didn't have time to look at it closely). The '04E55 had what initially looked like two radiators, turned out the second was the aircon condensor.
The first large SC radiator, which is actually from the SL55 arrived today. Going to fit it up tomorrow with the additional pump.
We just ordered all the large radiators MB has in stock in Europe and Asia Pacific, time to work out how to fit the thing in. Funnily there are only 8 in stock!
Contrary to what Adam (awiner) has suggested I don't believe the CL55 has both radiators. The bottom one he posted the picture of seems to be the same oil cooler as fitted to the SL55.

awiner

Stephens, Ill trace the lines later today or tomorrow on the bottom IC and let you know where it goes.

awiner

Stephens, I followed the lines tonight from the small IC radiator. It does indeed go into the water circulation pump !

I followed the other line from the small IC radiator and it goes into the larger IC radiator.

Therefore your picture above is correct. The CL55 DOES have both a small and large IC radiator.


There are so many radiators in the engine compartments its amazing. This is what I see:

ABC (active body control) oil cooler
Coolant cooler with integrated transmission oil heat exchanger
The large low temp IC
Oil cooler
The A/C Condenser
A 16 mm flat tube condenser with integrated steering oil cooler in the upper half.

There is also an additional coolant cooler is housed in the front right wheeling housing.


Imagine the damage a front end collision would yield !