09E63NB

I have a 2009 E63 amg; I had the head bolts replaced this past month by reputable Mercedes shop in my area in South Florida. The head bolt swap was preventative maintenance; no coolant loss or any issues prior. The PCV valve, spark plugs, coils, engine mounts, and trans mount were also replaced during this time (just for fyi). I DID NOT replace any lifters, camshaft adjusters, valves, or cams, or timing chain/tensioner. All went well except for the fact that when i got the car back, i had a check engine light displaying engine code P0016-Camshaft/Crankshaft correlation Bank 1 Sensor A.
I had the shop check the timing marks on everything when i brought it back to them, they have confirmed that they installed everything correctly and that the timing was set properly. This was a verbal confirmation only, i didnt see it myself and i have not seen any pictures of it all. I asked them to try and diagnose the issue and after a day of road testing with the car; he said the issue only persists at idle. When off idle and driving, they confirmed all values related to cam timing are in spec.

More info: I used to get the adjuster rattle on random cold/warm starts; now I am getting the rattle on EVERY startup without fail. It also idles horribly (shaking/pulsating). Though Upon driving, the engine smooths out and drives very nicely, except for some minor loss of power when trying to accelerate out of a turn or from a dig.
I have not yet had the car scanned by SDS to get the proper Mercedes DTC 1205-1208, so a generic P0016 is what im stuck with for now.

Is it possible that my check engine light is being caused by a failing cam adjuster? Everything ive read online refers to either dirty oil or filter (both changed with head bolt job), a failing camshaft sensor (already replaced with new cam sensor at shop and did not make difference), a blocked or failing Oil Control Valve (which i believe are bolted directly into the adjusters), Or a jumped tooth on the timing chain as well as worn tensioner/guides/chain (which shop apparently thinks is ok)

Any input based off personal experience would be much appreciated; any guessing is welcome also; esp. since i have not had the car scanned via Star diagnostic yet. Thank you for any and all input. -Niko

marcd7tx

What's your mileage?

09E63NB

Apologies; just got home from work and its sitting at 69,789 miles.

Could this be sensor/electrical related? I work 40 min from home and today I cleared check engine light with my blue driver scan tool, started it, still got nasty adjuster rattle and/or timing belt slap, but CEL stayed off entire drive home. It drove like a dream, had full acceleration with no loss of power while smoking the s*** out of 11-13’ mustang gt.

Im sure when i start the car again later tonight ill for sure have the rattle noise and most likely a check engine code P0016. Idk where to begin.

Yuille36

I recommend having your car probably scanned and evaluated. Only then will you know, what the real issue is.

cfmistry

So what did the shop think of the CEL? What was their recommendation?

09E63NB

That is definitely starting to look like one of my only options. My main concern with that is having to bring it to a different shop or a dealership, and basically becoming new bait for them to chew on. Im afraid they will make up a worse case scenario for my car and charge me for something that may just need minor adjustment or cheap part replaced.

09E63NB

This is what is frustrating me the most. Ive let them have the car back for a full day, and they returned it to me saying they verified the timing marks, they tried a new camshaft sensor and were unsuccessful, and they road tested for an hour or so and said all values related to cam timing are within spec except for when the car is first started and idling. He has mentioned that it may be the timing chain, guides, tensioner, or all, because he claimed the noise may be that rather than the adjusters. I truly believe its an adjuster rattle, for im very familiar with the problematic sounds of this engine. Also, at only 69k miles, why would I need a new timing chain and tensioner? Is it common for them to go that soon? Or is it because the old parts were reassembled and stretched? I ended up taking that for an answer for now while I plan my next move. Ive also read the code could be caused from wrong oil viscosity or dirty oil, I verified that the shop used Mobil 0w40. I run Liquimoly 5w40 only and that was obviously replaced when bolts were done.

anomadtoo

Definitely could be the cam adjusters as that rattle has many to believe its timing chain related. Per my indi mechanic that's done many M156 cam/bolts work; and that did my cams and lifter buckets; the adjusters can break/have problems after reassembly (the old style adjusters). I already had the new adjusters in my 2009 E63 and luckily everything went smoothly upon reassemble.

Hope you get it figured out! New adjusters are not cheap at $500 each.

09E63NB

I believe the same. Esp. since it is an known issue. Only thing is, has anyone ever gotten an engine code P0016 if they’ve had bad adjusters? Or any codes at all? I believe its possible, but never heard of anything like it.

09E63NB

do you mind giving me the intake/exhaust part numbers to reference? just want to make sure fcp had the updated ones. if not no worries I just know you also have an 09

anomadtoo

no never seen a code for the adjusters.

anomadtoo

cheapest I’ve found (#17):
https://benzparts.autohausofpeoria.c...engine--engine

09E63NB

so after researching for a while now, im still unable to verify if the adjusters were actually revised and updated with a new part number, or if they are the same part number and I will eventually have this issue again in later mileage. Please verify if possible. Also, thank you for the link, even cheaper than FCP... although for a little over $100 more id rather get the lifetime warranty with them.

anomadtoo

I can only say that my indi mechanic noticed when tearing down my engine; and noted on my VMI report it shows the cam adjusters replacement in 2014.....which are the same part numbers shown in purchase options today. So same part numbers as of now and its the updated adjuster.

roadtalontsi

Sounds like an adjuster, you already knew it was going bad since you've heard it prior to this repair work. If it is staying out of time it would have the check engine light on all the time and never go away. You should've had it replaced while they did the headbolts. If it was a chain guide or tensioner you would likely have more than 1 camshaft out of time. There is always the potential there are other faults that a generic reader cant detect, however you're definitely looking at a minimum of one adjuster.

jpman

I’d love to help, I’m pretty sure my car has the original ones since I have all the records from the dealer. I’m also in South Florida, pretty rare to see another 211 63.

if I can tell without removing anything, I can tell you what part numbers mine has.

Yuille36

I think that you need to search for a reliable Independent MB shop in your area, a shop that has certified MB techs, and good reviews online.
Then visit their shop, talk to the techs, and if you have a good vibe, then drop the car off for a diagnosis. I've been using the same shop for 10 years, and they warranty their repairs.

Rovel

Get your can scanned with a proper MB tools elsewhere. It shouldn't be expensive.

If you decide to replace the adjusters, before you buy a new cam adjuster, have you seen this thread and video? https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...fix-trick.html

If you cannot do this job yourself, I'd buy new ones to avoid paying for the labor twice. If you can do it yourself, I'd say try the trick in Tasos' video above. I just did head bolt replacement on mine and documented the process.

09E63NB

I apologize for the late response. Hope everyone is keeping safe from the virus. As for the 63, i began by taking it to Mercedes of Palm Beach, where they charged me $296.60 just for the diagnostic as expected. Conclusion is to replace both intake/exhaust camshaft solenoids. They quoted me $623.04 for parts/$1,374.73 labor/$2,180.01 total. obviously not getting it fixed by them.

Next moves: liqui moly proline engine flush (in case anything clogging oil passages), LM 5w-40 full syn, new filter.
-adjuster rattle still present; just more faint
-finally got a few warm starts w/ no rattle
-P0016 still present
-removed P-side top cam solenoid (i believe is the intake, please verify) for a quick visual
-looked clean, o-ring intact, filter screen free of debris and intact
i did not unplug or test the solenoid with multimeter, just laid on towel on top of radiator and cleaned with MAF cleaner. Only slight oil residue came out. Reinstalled. (Cleaning one solenoid and not testing was unnecessary, was just trying the ‘miracle’ fix.
-P0016 still present
-when driving, car feels too nice to be a timing chain/guide/tensioner issue.
-only noises are adjuster rattle on start 80% of time
-car has slight hesitation in power and acceleration going through the gears
-if i give it some beans it seems to engage just fine and launches
-power just feels as if its coming in steps.
-no start/stall issues so leaning away from cam & crank sensor
-leaning towards solenoids/adjusters

thing is, why would mercedes not tell me if this was an adjuster issue? I made them aware of the adjuster rattle and figured thats what the conclusion would come to, but solenoids? Did not have issue with solenoids before head bolts. is it possible the solenoid failures are causing oil starvation OR over filling of oil to the adjusters and causing the rattle?

is it wise to buy a solenoid or try to swap them around to see if code follows? Do you think Mercedes just assumed the solenoids because its a possible cause of the code? Id like to be a little more confident in their write up before i make the wrong move

amgs63dxb

quick one... is it possible to mix cam adjusters (exhaust/intake)? they look identical from the first sight... and could create bizarre outcome like that (or am I wrong?)

09E63NB

Had it diagnosed by Mercedes. They are concluding camshaft solenoids intake/exhaust on bank 1. do you think they overlooked the adjusters or is the rattle a result of improper oil flow from failing solenoids?

09E63NB

Also, have you ever seen code generated from failing adjusters? Not saying its not possible, ive just never seen or heard of it personally.

09E63NB

Im all set with part numbers for now, thank you..what part of south florida? Ive never seen another 211 63 in person over here. Only a few E55s and the w204 63’s. I was lucky to snag an 09’ for the low production numbers of that year. (431 for US)

09E63NB

thanks for your efforts, please see below update and give input. Appreciate it thus far.
Also, the shop is an independent merc specialists and had awesome reviews online, the service manager there worked for Renntech for 13 years, and beautiful shop with high end equipment. I think i just got taken for a ride after they realized something was wrong. Nothing i could’ve foreseen happening, but sucks. They also said they checked timing again and verified is good, and mercedes dealer didnt mention anything about timing chain/tensioner or adjusters.

09E63NB

Please see my update from today... also great diy video; I appreciate you getting up close and personal and give you great credit for all of the one handing with the camera. reminded me of watching all of Taso’s videos. If there is an adjuster issue i dont feel comfortable doing this myself. I can manage to maintain a lot but as far as anything regarding timing im just afraid to f it up. Im good with all of the main steps of the process, i just dont want to run into any issue where i would need more mechanical experience and background knowledge configure any issues or possibly cause more.