AMGB

I went to the Cadillac drive event here in So Cal. Test drove the CTS-V with 1 passenger. Not as fast as what is stated. I went around the cones in 2nd gear then floored it. Because I was in second, it took a while for the engine to get going, then hit third. The Profes. driver in the car said I did a good job in shifting, but I can tell you, that shift would have put my E55 1 car length ahead (just during the shift). The car leans more than I thought. I was dissapointed in it. 1 note: They did a demo of an M3 vs CTS-V 0-100-0 with the CTS-V going though cones while the M3 went straight. In that demo, it made the M3 look like a 7 second (0-60mph) type of car.

The 545 was very slow out of gates. I got up to 70 before hitting the brakes and going through the cones. This car can handle!!! Wow, I was going though the track and an unbelievable speed with full confidence. I was thoroughly and surprisingly impressed with its handling. Now, the engine/throttle did not respond fast enough when I wanted the car to go, but the handling was definitely there. My friend said he saw smoke coming off of the tires as I was going through the track.

Once I got back into my E55, even with a passenger in the car, the engine of the AMG just cannot be beat. The E55 feels so so so much faster than the CTS-V and the 545. It felt like when I went from an Lexus ES300 to the GS400. The engine is just no comparison.

amgB

W210

Absolutely agree with your comment, in fact, I found the Bentley Continental GT completely underpower coming from the E55.

Of course, we had 4 passengers in the GT but I was quite disappointed with the slow acceleration.

We're definitely spoiled.

Mardeth

Im glad you had fun. The new M5 is going to be better handling and probably as fast in a straight line as the E55 so its going to be intresting.

W210

Yeah, let's hope BMW will fix up the M5 and launch the car soon.

I can't believe all the bad luck they're having. In addition to all the electronic problems, rumor has it that the 5 series has done quite poorly in European crash tests which is why they further delayed it?

As much as I'm happy with the handling of even the regular 5, let's hope BMW can squeeze more out of the V10 in the final product. I can't believe the 2006 M5 can only match the 2003 E55, 3 years later. With the horsepower war, I was hoping BMW could do better at least giving a car a little more torque. Well, at least the car has a balanced chassis.

It will be interesting to see what MB will do with the next E-class AMG upgrade. Too bad Audi claims they're dropping out of the competition.

reggid

I don't really think it was ever BMW's intention to blow the E55 in a straightline but i belive they have eclipsed it by a margin, especially once above 80km/h. They were never going to produce a really torquey engine, the E39 was pretty good in this regard but was not a typical M engine of old which the E60 seems to be.

reggid

They need to give themselves room to move in the future an E65 wouldn't do this without being unusable on the street. An E63 NA with just a bit more hp that the E55 would. The only problem is that the current E55 owners may not like the less bottom end torque if a NA 6.3L is used.

Bilal

I was going to say something about this. The new AMG engine has around 600NM of torque. If the characteristics of MB's latest V6 are anything to go by, then this engine will produce 600NM from around 2500rpm to 5000rpm. Now 80% of this torque is available at 1500rpm. If you couple this to 7G Tronic, which downshifts two gears at a time under heavy engine loads, you could get up into the cars powerband very quickly (which is very broad if you look at the torque spread). And if you happen to have 500bhp-530bhp it should be as quick if not "minutely" quicker than the current 55's.

The problem to beat the M5 will only come at higher speeds, where the longer gearing of the AMG may lose out to the quicker ratio of the M5 which when combined to its 500hp at 7750rpm and a slight weight advantage may pull it away from the AMG's. I'd like to be pleasantly surprised though

Mardeth

The potential of the 6.3L NA engine would be incredible. Can you imagine what FI would do? Im hoping thought, that the suspension would be sportier and the car more agile, handling is important to me and if I had to choose between a E63 with the same handling characteristics as the current E55 I would surely still go with the E60 M5.

W210

To me it's still a toss and I surely need a test drive to decide. On one hand I like the comfort features, ride, more attractive design and effortless power of the AMG, while the M5 offers better handling, but at the expense of poor ergonomics (especially in telematics), and probably first year bugs. And I'm sure there will be a minor face lift by MB on the W211 when the E60 debutes in 2006 perhaps with the new 6.3 engine.

When one compares the current range between the W211 and E60, I would pick the E350/320 over the 530i, the 545i over the E500, but the E55 vs. M5 is not too obvious as I definite need to feel out how the SMGIII matches with the V10. Well, the M5 is still a year away at least in North America so there is no point to get overly excited yet.

And I hope Audi will get its next RS6 out quickly we as consumers only gain when the competition is more fierce!

BlownV8

I'm sure Kleeman is praying that they are naturally aspirated. Imagine a 500 NA 6.3L motor with a positive displacement blower. Oh yeah, 7 psi of boost any you'll be pumping out over 700+ hp!!!!!!

norb

Why is it that people always say that its not about stright line acceleration, re the M5? Why then did BMW put a freaking V-10 in there? Yes, its important, if not they would have just put the old V8 in there.

To me the E55 effortless torque/power is a nice combo with the luxury of feel of the car. I mean, you have to rev the V-10 to get maximum power, not very luxurious.

MikeHK

How do you determine effortless torque/power? Effortless as in gear shift at 3000rpm and still get 0 - 62mph in 4.xx sec? 1/4 mile in <13sec? Or you don't have to rev or step on the gas padel to get maximum power from the E55? Efforless as in automatic? I believe the SMGIII comes with 5 different auto D modes.

The M5 is at least on par if not better in straight line performance with the E55. But M5 owners usually don't put the straight line performance factor above the handling factor on their decision making list, E55 owners seem to go the other way.

Arnab77

its not fare to compare an E55 with what 500hp against a 545 that has 300+ hps, maybe a better comparison would be with the upcoming M5

reggid

because if BMW were serious about straightline performance they would have opted for a much bigger engine than the outgoing M5 or even used FI rather than a higher rev limit. They could have SC the current V8 which would require less R&D but they chose not to. They wanted a car that is good in all departments. The V10 character is more like the more traditional M engines the V8 was unique in that it only had 80hp/L so it wasn't overly worked. The V10 is a marketing ploy because a V10 sounds better than a V8 in marketing terms.

To me the E55 is not a very sporty car. I mean, all you have to do is put your foot to the floor to go fast, not very sporty

The point is that the e55 is more luxurious and the M5 more sporty as they were intended to be, it doesn't seem that hard to comprehend to me.

W210

What I really like about the E55 is the luxurious hassle free power, just step on it and the car jumps forward, no need to worry about the gear, the power mode, the launch control, etc.

While a test drive is in order, one can certainly predict the M5 having the usual disadvantages of all high revving engines: engine harshness, vibration and noise. Good for better weight distribution, but not particularly enjoyable if one prefers a less nervous and quieter interior.

There will always be compromises, how much weight savings are you willing to trade for performance, at the expense of comfort, roominess and safety? How much practicality are you willing to sacrifice for the best engine drive train layout?

And that is why there are different cars for different purposes. For the ultimate track car, I would pick the Elise over any BMW, for GT, there's the SL and for point and shoot daily sports car for the street, we have the 996TT. For practical daily workhorses, we have the AMGs.

The E55 definitely offers a more complete luxurious package than the M5. The comfortable ride, quiet interior, effortless power, well designed interior ergonomics. Heck, MB thought about everything, giving us a keypad to dial numbers and driving lights for our bad eyes!

zdkdeeier493

What I don't get is how the new M5 only uses 2 of its pistons when "the button" is pushed to access the extra 100hp. How does this not cause a fault in the engine due to unequal piston use? After a while, when the 8 constantly used pistons are slightly worn and the 2 that are used only every so often aren't, won't that lead to engine complications?

reggid

yes the E55 is the perfect car and the M5 is no accomplishment

Atleast give credit to where its due even if its not the car for you personally!!!

reggid

i don't think they get 400hp by using only 8 out the 10 cylinders. Where did you hear that? It sounds wrong and its the first i've heard of it.

Mardeth

Because you have your facts wrong. It opens its valves (I think it was valves) in the default mode only 90% compered to the 100% in power mode.

People seems to think that the M5 would be very complicated. I dont see it that way. You might need a few hundred miles to get used to some of the features but after that it becomes automatic. When you start the car youll probably press the power button immediately without even thinking of it, when you need to race you just press the M button and as for the different SMG modes youll probably use just 2 of the manual and one of the automatic modes. And BMW owner tend to like to be in control, they have as hard time to understand how you can like the automatic gearbox and less race like handling as you understanding how the can live with a little less comfy and with some "hassle".

W210:
The whole point of making an high-revving & NA V10 is that it makes sound. Their obviously not trying to copy the charateristics of the AMG engines. Im 100% sure there wont be excess vibration, if there was, the magazine would surely have reported about it. Im not quite sure what you mean by engine harshness...

I see the AMG cars as fast comfortable cars and the Ms as 5 seat sport cars.

W210

Mardeth, of course BMW is not trying to copy the characteristics of the AMG engines. To answer your question, engines always produce more noise and vibration at higher RPM.

While effortless acceleration is important, I personally prefer a quieter engine without the associated harshness in my daily sedan, ceteris paribus. Some people prefer more engine and exhaust noise calling it music to their ears.

I see the E55 as a fast comfortable car and the M5 as a sporty car yet none of them is a sports car in my dictionary. The original M1 or the M3 CSL may qualify as a sports car for their times but not the 2 ton M5. Your definition may vary.

W210

Yes, the E55 is the perfect car for me at the moment. When the M5 becomes available, I will certainly test drive one myself. Afterall, I still have a deposit on one and had been on the waiting list since 2 years ago.

I just don't put as much weight on magazine reviews and I generally like to start off with a more critical mind and give credits to a car after a test drive.

And count me in for more active participation on the M5 board then. Sometimes I don't understand the mentality of all the future M5 fans here. Why do you feel a need to seek approval from E55 owners here, or see a need to convert anybody? So what us E55 owners don't like the M5?

Mardeth

Im not sure if your talking to me but Im here to get info. I think the E55 is an awesome car and Im intrested of MBZ in general. But Im most intrested in what E55 owners have to say about the M5. I get the most out of you and what I want when I say something. I dont see any harm in discussing about a direct competitor here, were all car enthusiast, right?

And if your going to the discuss the M5, it will become quite one sided if all the participants are E55 owners. Im not trying to convert you, Im just stating what I think is good and bad. If people talk about the superiority of the E55 their not trying to convert people in to MB fans either...

And I like to argue (intelligently) too ...

Torquester

The car is just plain ugly. Vehicle dynamics aside, the older M5's were some of my favorite cars but IMHO this thing looks like it came off the pen of a teenager... flame surfacing my ***. They ruined an otherwise great car.

DRCrowder

Amen brother.

My original plan was to get into a 2002 M5 and have that hold me over to get the E60. I can't do it, I am so anti-rice (Style wise, I like subtle and understated) it is not funny and to me the E60 rivals all of the top three makers from Japan when it comes to loud, obnoxious styling (Although I love my Z4, I hate it's "Look At Me!!!!" styling)

I have bought cars in the past where I liked everything but the exterior styling (including my Z4) and I was never happy with them.

It is a shame too, I am a "Driver"! I want handling. I like a stiff ride, I revel in the sound of an engine at WOT, I hate body roll. It was a choice of an "disconnected" RS6, and a "disconnected" E55 for a super sedan. I didn't see much choice.

I'll keep the Z4 for my "Drivers car” and enjoy the hell out of my new E55 the rest of the time.

rsteele

I have warmed up to the new BMW 5 and 7-series body styles quite a bit. I now like they way they look. But IMHO, interior and exterior MB E-Series styling is better. If I decide upon the E60 M5, it will be for the gratification of driving the car, and I'll probably order the interior in black so as to see less of it.