6.2AMG

Hi
I installed ARH headers and catless long pipe on my car with a Eurocharged tune a couple of months ago and i've been having some issues with it...
First and for most, one of the header pipes on the passenger side had to be bent a bit because of clearance issues... but i dont think thats such a problem its just oval now as opposed to round...but i thought i'd mention it anyways LOL
my real problem is the way it drives..i find it uncomfortable to drive hard...lets say i boot it and i need to downshift fast,whether i do it manually or let the car do it for me...its like the downshifts are super shaky like it feels akward a bit( timing seems weird)...but maybe thats the way cars run after changing things like this... i think theres way too much gas going through thats causing all this extra combustion and vibration on downshifts but i might be wrong...what do you guys think? btw i had it checked out by a couple of other mechanics and everything seems to be installed solidly and stuff...
THE OTHER MAJOR PROBLEM, is when i drive the car in any mode...like at around 2500-3500 rpms theres this weird noise coming from the front of the car..its hard to describe the noise its like crickets or a mild rattling...i know its not any loose or anything because it only makes it when i press on the gas pedal....i had a couple of mechanics listen to it and they seem to not know what it is or whats causing it...my tech guy seems to think its engine pinging....but its hard to believe...it doesnt sound like marbles in a can or what normal pinging sounds like... i tried to record it with my phone but i cant register it...and plus my car runs on 94 octane and boosters and the sounds still there...so i eliminated the cause being bad fuel...and it doesnt even help the noise so im wondering if its really engine knocking to begin with...but one thing i found out,was that when i start my car in the mornings it wont make the bird chirpins/cricket/rattling noise right away...it will take 5-10 mins before it begins...any clues on what this could be??? its always there...and its extremely annoying!!!
thanks for reading and hopefully ill get to the bottom of this...
ps my tech told me that ill need to fine tune it on a dyno and do something with the knock sensors and timing... honestly i dont know what to believe anymore but one things for sure...im not enjoying driving it like this...i feel like its driving sick but ppl seem to think its normal.. but i doubt this is what i have to live with...im sure theres a fix somewhere...

_AMG_

Has Eurocharged re-tuned the car after you installed the headers?

6.2AMG

Yea...i mean i had my tune done even before my header install (with headers in mind) then lost it when i brought it to the dealer 3-4 months ago then right before installing my headers i had my ECU sent back to Eurocharged for a re-tune then installed everything all together....

_AMG_

Have you tried checking the spark plugs?
Since your running on 94 octane then I would rule out the fuel as being the problem.

bobafett

How good was the installer? How much "bending" did you do to the pipes? That could be the source of your sound (you've changed the laminar flow dynamics and it's possible that there's a heat element that accounts for your time-change issue coupled with pipe asymmetry).

Have you tried having someone re-map A/F while actually being present with the car? Dyno-tune would be ideal.

Also - what was the change in back-pressure? Could be that the gearbox ECU is registering unusual criteria from various sensors and is culprit to your jerky shifts. Does your tech have experience with the latest proprietary nonsense?

Hope it's just some easy software and nothing majorly mechanical. I would be surprised if you're getting engine knock or pinging. More likely you're having conflicting software issues.

--Dan

6.2AMG

Yea i had them all checked out and they're perfect...

6.2AMG

I trust my mechanics work enough to have given it to him in the first place considering its a leased car...i mean he only touches Benz's so that's a plus and he gets quite of bit of traffic and has done work on e63's before...so i mean i trust him enough in that respect...as far as the header bending...i spoke to him about that and he had said that he didnt alter the tube by ways of causing it to be more restrictive...he only changed its shape to be able to have more clearance from the floor...
also i'm waiting to get the car dyno-tuned this week actually and hopefully i can fine tune some of these issues...like i said my tuner and others have heard the noise and are quite positive its pinging from one cylinder in particular due to higher compression or something... they said its quite common on the 63's and that its obviusly more pronounced without the cats being there to muffle the sound and obviously because of all the work i've done with the car...and to be honest,im with you,when it comes to being surprised/skeptical about the noise being pinging but i cant argue with a mechanic...they know more than i do times a zillion lol

bobafett

Glad to hear that you're in good hands with knowledgeable people. Really hope it's not an engine ping, as likely the only solution requires changing back parts and a dealer visit.

Do the shifts change characteristics or severity in different modes? What about potentially rebooting the "learning" element?

--Dan

bobafett

Any progress / diagnosis?

--Dan

sikm3

I know this might be a pain but the only way to find out what the real issue is to reverse your installs till you single out the problem. I'd first reflash the ecu back to stock. Jerry @ eurocharged should have backed up your original ecu file. You can then find a local eurocharged authorized installer whom Jerry will email your original ecu file to and it'll take around an hour to re-program. That might take care of the shifts. The noise sounds mechanical to me since it's triggered by heat expansion potentially. Might very well be the headers or the exhaust. Thinner aluminum will "ping" from heat expansion. One way to know for sure if that's teh cause is whether the pinging noise continues after you turn off the car. Interesting that none of your check engine lights or other warning lights are coming on. I'd revert the headers back to stock to see if all bodes well. If none of that fixes the issue, take it to MB authorized dealer once your ecu and headers are back to original specs and they can tell you whether STAR is picking up anything.

Zod

what fitment issues were you facing?
also can you do sharp hard turns with out any thing rubbing (steering shaft)?

6.2AMG

sorry guys for having disappeared on my own post like this....
this is my UPDATE as of now...nothings really changed at ALL....
the car still "pings" and intermittently misses on 3 cylinders i think 2,4,6 to be exact...
people are saying that the fact that the ARH headers are so freaking thin you can hear every single little imperfection and maybe its a problem thats always been there from the beginning...i mean ive gotten a good amount of 02 sensor 2 bank 2 CELs even before touching the car but benz never found a solution... maybe it was pinging then but i couldnt hear it....
the "pinging" noise definitely goes faster as the rpms go up usually starting at 2200-2500rpms and as it goes up the noise goes so fast its not as apparent because the noise becomes a solid noise as opposed to less repetitions per second but its there... the car doesnt need to be pushed to hear it at all... sounds like something hitting a metal fan- very metallic yet like a bird chirping (noise twice a second)...its hard to describe and i cant seem to record it even by hearing it above my loud exhaust notes...maybe the noise is from the headers...i dunno...
but ive pretty much confirmed it to being pinging by every single person whos heard it in person....
i tried a carbon clean,new coils,new spark plugs,re-tuning it,new maf sensors,etc etc
and nothing....no exhaust leaks no nothing...installation was checked and checked again and everythings perfect as far as installation...
the car definately runs rich and by re-tuning it..it was ok for a couple of days but back to normal...its like it wasnt that bad until i pushed the car and it started again...
at first it seems ok because the fuel smell was gone but i felt as though it was dying to ping but the new timings were such that the gears were changing at such low rpms that it didnt give it enough strain to ping...now the ping is back and to top it off,the car is back at running rich with rough idling and jerky shifts as well as black smoke coming out of the exhaust pipes and pops after a nice push(too much gas for sure) but its soo strange because it wasnt doing that before i pushed my car on the highway days before it started... im considering putting everything back to stock....ive wasted so much time and money already its ridiculous...even though i feel like im so committed already i feel like im going to be continuing on this wild goose chase.... i wish someone could help...

ezatnova

Few questions.

It sounds like the noise definitely has a chirp/squeak element to it, rather than just a tick/click/rattle (paint can or marbles in a can). Is this the case? If so, I've never heard of detonation having that kind of noise. It's an explosion, so it won't have "tone", just pop/click/tick/rattle etc types of sound. A chirp/squeak is usually a vibration or rubbing that's a physical issue.

Is the noise more easily triggered immediately after a hard (WOT) downshift? i.e. does it consistently do it most repeatedly if you were cruising at 40 mph and floored it, causing the transmission to go hard into second gear.

Do you feel power down during/immediately after the noise? i.e. the ECU pulling timing.

I think you need either a dyno with wide band O2 sensor data, or some recorded logs from a laptop/cable/software to capture your fuel trim, lambda, AFR, etc to try to get to the bottom of at least the black smoke/fuel smell/potential richness issues.

Merc63

First off you should be running 1 step colder plugs with a tune and headers.

Secondly, you have been having problems with O2 sensors since before the install and never corrected that *BANG HEAD*.

How can you expect your engine to regulate AIR/FUEL ratios with faulty sensors and/or an existing problem??

You should have never tuned and installed headers on a car that wasn't running properly from the GO.


If the cylinders you are having your problems with are on the same bank, then that is telling you, that you have a problem with sensors on that side of the engine.

Are your plug fouled up?? Your O2 sensor is probably on its way out and the tune you have is probably running rich.

Buy a wideband AFR monitor that can monitor both exhaust streams, dual sensors. Attach the O2 sensors to the rear mounts on both banks, drive around and monitor the AFR levels. This will tell you if you have a rich or lean condition.

I think you have an existing problem that was never fixed and if those headers didnt fit correctly, they are junk. You shouldn't have to bend your headers to fit the application, that is a hack job, get new ones.


I forgot to mention, you dont test pinging by hammering it and letting the tranny downshift. You find urself a big hill, you hit manual mode put it in a high gear and go WOT. Eliminate the tranny from the equation by driving in manual mode and going from part throttle to WOT in the same gear, if the noise is still there, its most likely engine related.