3rd row retrofit in AMG wagon? done.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 229
Likes: 2
Renntech E63S
3rd row retrofit in AMG wagon? done.
greetings, fellow dads.
the big question as to why there is no 3rd row in the AMG, or whether the retrofit would work, has been answered.
the answers are: spare tire; and yes.
the exhaust, the weight ratings, the horsepower are all silly, inaccurate explanations to why the option wasn't offered. my shop, chicago performance and tuning, successfully completed the project without modification to the vehicle. however, the last detail to solve is the spare AMG rim that stows under the seats. it's about an inch too wide. so, just as it was with the factory 211 AMG wagon, i am not running with the spare on-board...yet. the 212 version of the car came with a pretty large spare rim and collapsible tire. the E350, by contrast, has a bit narrower spare rim and tire. so, there's your ballgame.
now, will the E350 spare fit over the AMG brakes? good question indeed. if it does, then that's the obvious solution. if not, the shop will either engineer a solution, or i will just go without- as we did in the 211 wagon.
the big question as to why there is no 3rd row in the AMG, or whether the retrofit would work, has been answered.
the answers are: spare tire; and yes.
the exhaust, the weight ratings, the horsepower are all silly, inaccurate explanations to why the option wasn't offered. my shop, chicago performance and tuning, successfully completed the project without modification to the vehicle. however, the last detail to solve is the spare AMG rim that stows under the seats. it's about an inch too wide. so, just as it was with the factory 211 AMG wagon, i am not running with the spare on-board...yet. the 212 version of the car came with a pretty large spare rim and collapsible tire. the E350, by contrast, has a bit narrower spare rim and tire. so, there's your ballgame.
now, will the E350 spare fit over the AMG brakes? good question indeed. if it does, then that's the obvious solution. if not, the shop will either engineer a solution, or i will just go without- as we did in the 211 wagon.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 509
Likes: 36
From: Ohio
2021 GLS63
Very cool Traffic! Congrats on a very practical and cool mod! It is one reason I am having a hard time with ordering a 2014 E63 wagon. If you don't mind me asking, what was the general cost involved in retofitting the 3rd row?
Thanks!
X
Thanks!
X
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 229
Likes: 2
Renntech E63S
i would say to you, check the 2014 E350. if they are going to offer the 3rd row in the 350, i would feel perfectly comfortable with knowing you can fit the parts in the AMG car. i don't believe there have been changes to the cargo area of the 2014 car, so i feel like you're probably fine to assume you can do it just as i did. the E63 wagon was only an option for me if 7 passengers were possible, so i studied both the E350 and AMG cargo areas to establish if there were any obvious differences- including cargo weight capacities and exhaust packaging. no differences.
knowing that MB would certainly not be stamping out unique frames for the very few AMG wagons, i was confident the parts would just bolt right up.
2 compromises to consider: 1) the spare is just slightly too wide for the seat panels to fold away flush to the floor. working on this, but current solution is a can of fix-a-flat. no spare. another possibility is to see if the narrower E350 spare wheel bolts up over the AMG brakes. if so, done. 2) the cargo cover and retractable net unit that is standard in the AMG car won't allow the 3rd row seatbacks to lock into place in the vertical position. the current solution is to simply pop that unit off if i need the seats. however, i need to investigate the unit that comes in the E350 to see if it is the same as the AMG piece. in the E350, there is no need to remove the shade housing to open the 3rd row. i'll have a look and report any findings.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 509
Likes: 36
From: Ohio
2021 GLS63
yep, the parts were a bit over $5k, labor was about 6 hours or so. roughly $6k parts/labor. well spent as far as i'm concerned. makes the wagon so much more practical than a sedan if i can load 5 kids in proper seat belts.
i would say to you, check the 2014 E350. if they are going to offer the 3rd row in the 350, i would feel perfectly comfortable with knowing you can fit the parts in the AMG car. i don't believe there have been changes to the cargo area of the 2014 car, so i feel like you're probably fine to assume you can do it just as i did. the E63 wagon was only an option for me if 7 passengers were possible, so i studied both the E350 and AMG cargo areas to establish if there were any obvious differences- including cargo weight capacities and exhaust packaging. no differences.
knowing that MB would certainly not be stamping out unique frames for the very few AMG wagons, i was confident the parts would just bolt right up.
2 compromises to consider: 1) the spare is just slightly too wide for the seat panels to fold away flush to the floor. working on this, but current solution is a can of fix-a-flat. no spare. another possibility is to see if the narrower E350 spare wheel bolts up over the AMG brakes. if so, done. 2) the cargo cover and retractable net unit that is standard in the AMG car won't allow the 3rd row seatbacks to lock into place in the vertical position. the current solution is to simply pop that unit off if i need the seats. however, i need to investigate the unit that comes in the E350 to see if it is the same as the AMG piece. in the E350, there is no need to remove the shade housing to open the 3rd row. i'll have a look and report any findings.
i would say to you, check the 2014 E350. if they are going to offer the 3rd row in the 350, i would feel perfectly comfortable with knowing you can fit the parts in the AMG car. i don't believe there have been changes to the cargo area of the 2014 car, so i feel like you're probably fine to assume you can do it just as i did. the E63 wagon was only an option for me if 7 passengers were possible, so i studied both the E350 and AMG cargo areas to establish if there were any obvious differences- including cargo weight capacities and exhaust packaging. no differences.
knowing that MB would certainly not be stamping out unique frames for the very few AMG wagons, i was confident the parts would just bolt right up.
2 compromises to consider: 1) the spare is just slightly too wide for the seat panels to fold away flush to the floor. working on this, but current solution is a can of fix-a-flat. no spare. another possibility is to see if the narrower E350 spare wheel bolts up over the AMG brakes. if so, done. 2) the cargo cover and retractable net unit that is standard in the AMG car won't allow the 3rd row seatbacks to lock into place in the vertical position. the current solution is to simply pop that unit off if i need the seats. however, i need to investigate the unit that comes in the E350 to see if it is the same as the AMG piece. in the E350, there is no need to remove the shade housing to open the 3rd row. i'll have a look and report any findings.
X
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 28
From: Seattle, WA
99 ML430, 01 CLK55, 07 R63, 15 E63 Wagon
Hey great write up.
So let me get this straight, on an E350 wagon, the spare currently fits under the false floor for the third row?
Something to keep in mind is that AMGs typically get a different donut spare than other MBs. The newer ones (maybe 2007+) all have a 19" spare to clear the calipers for the front wheels. So for this reason, I doubt a spare from the regular E350 will work. Something you might consider especially since you're comfortable running without a spare, is to use the E350 spare for the back wheels since that will likely fit (but you'll have to check). This way in the 50/50 chance that you do get a flat then you can still use a spare on the back wheel. If you got a flat on the front, then you can use your fix a flat solution.
Just a thought!
So let me get this straight, on an E350 wagon, the spare currently fits under the false floor for the third row?
Something to keep in mind is that AMGs typically get a different donut spare than other MBs. The newer ones (maybe 2007+) all have a 19" spare to clear the calipers for the front wheels. So for this reason, I doubt a spare from the regular E350 will work. Something you might consider especially since you're comfortable running without a spare, is to use the E350 spare for the back wheels since that will likely fit (but you'll have to check). This way in the 50/50 chance that you do get a flat then you can still use a spare on the back wheel. If you got a flat on the front, then you can use your fix a flat solution.
Just a thought!
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 229
Likes: 2
Renntech E63S
so yes, the spare rim for the AMG cars is a bit bigger. however, the issue is width, so far as i can tell. there is an aluminum guide under the jump seats that wont fully seat when the AMG spare is in there. you present a solid option with the E350 spare. might be better to just modify the aluminum piece. it's non load-bearing. i will study it a bit and see what sort of options are available to keep that factory spare on-board. it misses by less than an inch.
Last edited by Traffic53; Feb 28, 2013 at 12:58 AM.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 63
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area, CA
e63 AMG bi-turbo wagon
so yes, the spare rim for the AMG cars is a bit bigger. however, the issue is width, so far as i can tell. there is an aluminum guide under the jump seats that wont fully seat when the AMG spare is in there. you present a solid option with the E350 spare. might be better to just modify the aluminum piece. it's non load-bearing. i will study it a bit and see what sort of options are available to keep that factory spare on-board. it misses by less than an inch.
It would be a bigger deal to get my local guy to fab a mod to the aluminum arm that interferes the spare, so I'm wondering if anyone has comments on the downsides of going with fix-a-flat. Less range, less speed, until you get to a shop? This seat project has been kind of involved so there's a part of me that wants to just go all the way and mod the metal, but I also don't want to do it just because, without a clear benefit.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 229
Likes: 2
Renntech E63S
fantastic!
the only 2 E63s with the rear seats! so, i think the clear benefit would be having the spare on-board. since my shop has a metal-man/in-house fabrication service, i might just have the metal guy either mod or make a completely new piece that is lower profile.
what i'm seeing is that the aluminum arm is not load-bearing at all. it might even only exist as a convenience to get the floor pan out of the way to get to the spare. that said, i wonder if we even need it. maybe something else could be engineered to keep the floor pan solidly in place?
another question for you: the cargo area cover? will your seatbacks open fully and accept occupants with the cargo cover assembly in place, or do you need to pop that out? our project was similar in that it took a bit of time to order some of the bits and get it all together. required a bit of patience, but very much worth it.
the only 2 E63s with the rear seats! so, i think the clear benefit would be having the spare on-board. since my shop has a metal-man/in-house fabrication service, i might just have the metal guy either mod or make a completely new piece that is lower profile.
what i'm seeing is that the aluminum arm is not load-bearing at all. it might even only exist as a convenience to get the floor pan out of the way to get to the spare. that said, i wonder if we even need it. maybe something else could be engineered to keep the floor pan solidly in place?
another question for you: the cargo area cover? will your seatbacks open fully and accept occupants with the cargo cover assembly in place, or do you need to pop that out? our project was similar in that it took a bit of time to order some of the bits and get it all together. required a bit of patience, but very much worth it.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 63
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area, CA
e63 AMG bi-turbo wagon
Yeah man, we might be the only 2!
I agree that aluminum bar doesn't look structural. You bring up a really interesting notion that maybe it's not necessary at all. Maybe that pan can just be supported by fabbed 'towers' underneath. The gas strut and everything seemed overkill to me, like how often do you need to access the spare?
The spare seems to just rattle around now the carpeted well is removed, are you thinking you'll just put some carpet down there or something?
I haven't tried popping the seat back up with the cargo divider in place yet, only without. I'll check that.
I agree that aluminum bar doesn't look structural. You bring up a really interesting notion that maybe it's not necessary at all. Maybe that pan can just be supported by fabbed 'towers' underneath. The gas strut and everything seemed overkill to me, like how often do you need to access the spare?
The spare seems to just rattle around now the carpeted well is removed, are you thinking you'll just put some carpet down there or something?
I haven't tried popping the seat back up with the cargo divider in place yet, only without. I'll check that.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 17
From: Toronto
2016 C63 S
Is the rear AMG suspension set-up to carry that extra load over the rear axles...with the extra seats and kids....could be up over 300 pounds....
I know the airmatics have leaked with no loads, just wondering what the dynamics are like when you sling that weight behind the rear axles
I know the airmatics have leaked with no loads, just wondering what the dynamics are like when you sling that weight behind the rear axles
Last edited by callmiro; Mar 4, 2013 at 12:01 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 229
Likes: 2
Renntech E63S
Is the rear AMG suspension set-up to carry that extra load over the rear axles...with the extra seats and kids....could be up over 300 pounds....
I know the airmatics have leaked with no loads, just wondering what the dynamics are like when you sling that weight behind the rear axles
I know the airmatics have leaked with no loads, just wondering what the dynamics are like when you sling that weight behind the rear axles
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 63
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area, CA
e63 AMG bi-turbo wagon
Hey Traffic, just want to follow up on the carpeted well: your shop left the big formed well that goes under he spare in place? My shop took it out so I just assumed that it needed to be removed, but now I'm wondering.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 229
Likes: 2
Renntech E63S
yep. so far as i can tell, there is no need to touch it.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 63
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area, CA
e63 AMG bi-turbo wagon
thanks man, I'll let my shop know that they should put that formed floor tub back in.
on the cargo divider, you're right that the seatback doesn't pop up with it in place. I test drove an E350 wagon a while ago and am almost positive there was a divider, and the third row seats were popped up, so I have to assume the E350 has a different divider. This seems crazy right? I would go all out and order it but can't really picture when i would need it, do you think you'll order it? I guess only for occasions where I'll want to drop the seats while I'm out, and be able to cover things back there. Doesn't seem that often offhand.
Still debating what to do about that aluminum arm, remove or modify. Can't decide which one's easier. Since your parts are all in place, I'd be curious which way you decide to go. in some ways it almost seems easier to just mod the arm, but would need to figure out how much that will be.
on the cargo divider, you're right that the seatback doesn't pop up with it in place. I test drove an E350 wagon a while ago and am almost positive there was a divider, and the third row seats were popped up, so I have to assume the E350 has a different divider. This seems crazy right? I would go all out and order it but can't really picture when i would need it, do you think you'll order it? I guess only for occasions where I'll want to drop the seats while I'm out, and be able to cover things back there. Doesn't seem that often offhand.
Still debating what to do about that aluminum arm, remove or modify. Can't decide which one's easier. Since your parts are all in place, I'd be curious which way you decide to go. in some ways it almost seems easier to just mod the arm, but would need to figure out how much that will be.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 229
Likes: 2
Renntech E63S
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 63
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area, CA
e63 AMG bi-turbo wagon
yeah, I guess we'll both see on how easy it is. staring at it, I think that some of plastic screw posts that attach to the Al arm might also need to get filed down, if they are right where we notch it, but hopefully not.
forgot to mention to everyone that I'm working with Sonic Motorsports in Mountain View, CA on this project. They've been great and I highly recommend them, even though this whole thing has taken quite a long time (I'll excuse them on that, given that there might be only 2-3 cars in the country that have this mod...)
forgot to mention to everyone that I'm working with Sonic Motorsports in Mountain View, CA on this project. They've been great and I highly recommend them, even though this whole thing has taken quite a long time (I'll excuse them on that, given that there might be only 2-3 cars in the country that have this mod...)
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
2006 E55 Wagon
2014 E63 wagon 3rd row
Hey guys - new to this board. I am the origianl owner of a 06 E55 Wagon with a third row and had planned to buy a 2013 E63 wagon with a 3rd row and did not because it was not offered. I took a hard look at the GL63 and just can't bring myself to spend that much or be seen in it. So - the plan is to buy 2014 E63 wagon and do the retrofit discussed above. I have to think all the parts are the same for the facelifted version. Some thoughts on the issues re: spare and cargo cover.
1) My car did not come with a spare - only fix a flat. My E60 M5 does not have a spare either. This is not an issue IMHO. But - if you had a flat in the front - could'nt u move one of the rear wheels to the front to clear the rotors and put the E350 donut spare on the rear. Not the perfect solution - but I think it would work in a pinch.
2) I don't get the cargo cover issue. More info would be greatly appreciated.
Scott
1) My car did not come with a spare - only fix a flat. My E60 M5 does not have a spare either. This is not an issue IMHO. But - if you had a flat in the front - could'nt u move one of the rear wheels to the front to clear the rotors and put the E350 donut spare on the rear. Not the perfect solution - but I think it would work in a pinch.
2) I don't get the cargo cover issue. More info would be greatly appreciated.
Scott
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 54
FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
By the way, would anyone care to mount it that way and show what it looks like?...I would love to see it.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
2012 c63 sedan
AWESOME! Did they just bolt on the 2 seater, you said no modification necessary.. Parts were around 5k, did you just purchase this through dealer?
Is there a list of parts you could share with us, I am very interested in this because this is the major hurdle of going with e350 or e63 other than money
Congrats to you and your awesome ride!
Is there a list of parts you could share with us, I am very interested in this because this is the major hurdle of going with e350 or e63 other than money
Congrats to you and your awesome ride!
Last edited by late_bloomer; Apr 26, 2013 at 06:49 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 427
Likes: 3
From: chicago
2023 Range rover 2022 RAM TRX (bad ass):) - 2023 911 Turbo 2019 Wrangler 2021 E63s Wagon 2024 GLS580
