Chocofishez

I've done most of my driving in either C mode , comfort suspension or manual mode, sport suspension (one bar on the selector).

I've been concerned because even in WOT in either mode the car does not feel as fast as I think it should. Throttle response is poor in either mode. The car just feels limp and underwhelming. Not what I want! I waited a year for this car and I've thought of trading it in this spring... How sad is that?

Now, in my C63 I very seldom drove in sport TC mode. Lots of power to two 255 tires so I was happy to have the nannies there. There was no suspension selector, so pop it in M and it was a joy. In the E63 I've only touched the TC setting when wanting to let it fly off the line or wanting to slide around in the snow. But due to my dissatisfaction I've recently been hitting it as part of my start up regimen and the car is a lot more fun this way. Even when the car is cold you get the torque. More power for less pedal travel too. Feels less 'old man'... It has the edge I've been searching for. Too bad you can't program the AMG button to go to sport. Another electronic gripe I guess.

I think the Benz guys have numbed the standard experience for whatever reason. I think there is a button right there for the rest of us... As dumb as a lot of the electronics seem to be the AMG engineers got their way with the sport mode. I don't think you are getting the full beans without it.

mercedes4ever

Did you test drive it before purchasing?

TheOtherEric

No way Sport ESP gives you more power, that would be ridiculous. And I'm skeptical it gives different pedal programming, but it's conceivable. I'll have to experiment here.

Sport ESP is definitely waaaaay better in the snow, since the throttle doesn't keep cutting out.

nstanford99

sport esp doesnt give you more power, it does something with the handling with each wheel, i think thats in the manual. i believe you can program the amg button, put the car in the settings you like(trans, suspension), then hold in the amg button and i from ive heard that programs it

benyl

Unless it is for my morning commute (start car and go in C, Comfort, TC ON), the car gets M or S+, Sport TC, 2 bars. With our current temps, the car is crazy fast. I think you need to find someone with a C63 and hop in for a quick second to see how slow it is in comparison.

Chocofishez

I am not complaining about the car when it is up to temp and sport TC is on.

I use the same settings for my commute... it feels like the ECU is limiting power when the car is cold and the TC is on. Basically I think the TC is quite heavy handed and even when you aren't sliding around it is doing stuff to keep the power down, particularly in C mode and possibly in M mode too. Or at least it feels that way to me.

benyl

Second gear starts make the lag even more aparent in C mode.

I don't find the TC interfering at all and I never see the yellow triangle flash unless I am WOT passing people. I don't seem to lose traction even when I am driving "spirited." Maybe it is the sottozeros.

2012 merc amg

Choco, didn't you have a RWD e63 amg? I think a 2012? did that car feel any better? I have no complaints with my 2012, feel like there is plenty of power no matter what mode it is set in.

otakki

TC set to Sport or Off gives full amount of torque. Under the default TC setting, torque is limited. Not sure about the '14, but at least that's what the manual says for the previous W212 E63's.

TheOtherEric

No way that's true that max torque is only available in Sport or OFF ESP modes. Sure, torque is reduced when the car detects wheel slippage, that's what traction control means. But to say torque is always reduced cannot be true. The 2014 manual certainly doesn't say that.

otakki

I might not have phrased it correctly. I have referred to TC as ESP even though they are different. What I meant by default TC is the setting ESP is in when you start the car. In that mode the torque is limited until you push the button to change it to Sport or hold the button to turn it off. After that, you get unlimited torque (via Sport or OFF ESP modes).

Chocofishez

I had a 2010 C63 PP prior to the S model. Loved it, but wanted more...

Chocofishez

I bet the light isn't flashing because you aren't getting 575hp & 590ft/lbs...

The sottos are great performance winters, for sure... But I don't think they are the reason. I'm not having traction issues... I'm having get this Fing car going issues in any setting other than TC sport!

Chocofishez

Well that's what it feels like! I'll have to haul out the manual and take a look...

Chocofishez

It's even worse in C... I was driving on the highway last weekend, huge traffic jam due to an accident. I came up to an emergency turnaround and decided to backtrack and take an exit I just passed and do a detour. So I had cars coming up behind me at highway speeds while I was accelerating. Wife and both kids in the car. I stand on it and summon the AMG gods but they let me down, car behind me had to brake and I got the horn big time.

TheOtherEric

Again, I'm calling BS that the entire 577hp / 590 ft-lb tq is unavailable in default ESP mode. Does the pre-2014 owners manual say this? It would be a bizarre decision by MBZ. Can't trust butt dynos to form such a conclusion either.

Chocofishez

In the 2014 manual it says the following regarding sport handling mode:

"Engine torque is only restricted to a limited degree, and the drive wheels are able to spin"

From that I take that the ECU *is* limiting torque. But what does "limited degree" mean? Does it provide maximum torque right up until the instant that traction is lost and then cut out?

That's what we all want but how would we know that's what is truly going on?

My thinking is perhaps because there is so much torque in this car in order to keep the ESP system working properly and drivers out of ditches the ECU needs to pull power back before the moment traction is lost... to get a "head start" on the correction... This could be even more pronouced when sport mode is not engaged, which is really the only time it bothers me.

There are other instances of this going on... I've noticed it when botching a 1-2 shift by pulling the paddle too close to the red line... the car takes its sweet time putting all the power down in second gear after the shift has been completed.. it will give you some of it right after, but not all.

TheOtherEric

The context of that quote is when the "vehicle is deviating from the direction desired by the driver," i.e. when ESP is called to action. This just means that under default ESP, when ESP is needed the engine torque is reduced greatly. In SPORT ESP, when ESP is needed, the engine torque is only slightly limited. No surprise here.

Let's say you floor it on the highway under default ESP. The vehicle is not "deviating from the direction desired by the driver" and so ESP is not called upon, the ESP light doesnt flash, and so there is no torque limiting going on. I see nothing in the manual that says otherwise.

Chocofishez

It could be the manual may be oversimplifying the ESP engagement process. No one can make any sense of the ECO start/stop function, and the manual isn't exactly forthcoming with a tonne of information on that.

It could also have something to do with cold weather... as it has been cold here. Perhaps there is some program in the ECU that doesn't allow certain levels of power if it thinks it could hurt the motor or if the tires could be cold, who knows.

Does the ECU adapt to driver inputs to 'learn' the driver? perhaps if I was driving slowly for a few days due to poor weather then the transmission / throttle response numbs a bit, and takes a bit of time with a new driving style to "catch up"? Makes me wonder especially if the car thinks it can tell when I'm tired (attention assist).

At the end of the day I'm just one driver in one set of conditions.. I'm a bit suspicious of the electronics and I find sport mode clears a lot of that up so I'll be in that mode more often but if your car in your conditions is doing it for you in normal mode nothing wrong with that

TheOtherEric

Choco, I hear ya. I've found the car occasionally doesn't have the pull I expect, but I've never been able to figure out why that happens.

otakki

That's a total let down, since the car should be capable of 0-60 in around mid 3-seconds


I hate this adaptive tranny thing MB put in this type of cars. AMG's should never been equipped with adaptive tranny. I want my brain, through my right foot, to dictate things, rather than a computer trying to guess what I had done in the past.

Chocofishez

It was a let down. My wife even chirped me... "I thought your new car was supposed to be fast?" LOL.

Don't get me wrong... sport mode does the trick and the car hooks and goes when on full boil. All I really have to do is press two buttons each start up and stare at an orange light all the time. I lowered the steering wheel a bit so I can't see it as much.

ace10

And all along I thought the key was the key....

cnolke

The fob is the key but the key is the mode.

Chocofishez

I just wanted to follow up on this.

I just got home from a late night hockey game and touched 240 on the back roads. Car just piles on the power and the pirellis didn't let me down under braking. What a rocket. Car was not warm, but I also wasn't in sport mode.

I never would have done that in -14c in the C63 and my C never got that fast on the same straight even in the summer.. Maybe 210 or so.

I wanted to see if the nannies would show their face and they didn't... I felt like I got the whole load there. Straight line anyway. I still think they get all up in it a little too much in slower speeds with steering angle, but I don't think I have a limp car by any stretch. Really looking forward to warmer weather.