kponti

Has anyone monitored their iats stock vs tuned.
Also does ANYONE have an aftermarket cooling system? AMS or Renntech and did you see any differences?

I know the 2013 and up with the split cooling probably runs much better iats than the 2012. I can tell after a period of idling I notice a drastic loss of power under wot not part throttle.

kponti

Bump

Zod

I have no numbers, but based on user experience and track racing seems the 2014+ so not suffer from the same heat issues the 55k's are used to.

might be paranoia

you don't hear of loss of power or dead pumps much for the biturbo

KLR CLS

a Killer Chiller setup would be great for these cars. I'm going to contact kincaid in the spring and see If they can put together a kit for me.

kponti

Dead pumps no, even the 55k did not have dead pumps after the pump was redesigned (bosch 010 pump). If you had the older pump, yes it will die. If you had the newer pumps, you had no problems. I would assume MB would have used the lessons learned there on the newer Biturbo cars.

Power loss or issues. Cars are NOT being tracked enough to actually see if that is an issue. Seems the 2014 and up might have superior cooling than the older models especially with the split system. I do have a 2012 and do not have the split system. I run on average 40 to 50 degrees (IAT) above ambient when it is 50s and 60s outside.
WOT does not seem to be as taxing as it was on the 55k. I get to 130 degrees at the top of 3rd or 4th, but does not take long to drop back down to 100-110, however it was in the 50s and low 60s when I logged this.

Idling on the other hand....kills it. Last couple of days we have seen 30s and 40s hear. I intentionally idled the car for after normal driving around and was able to reach 115. It take FOREVER to get it back down to under 100 unless you hit the freeway for a few minutes

KLR CLS

Any car with a liquid to air IC has massive IAT issues with stationary idling. Adding aux tank and bigger cooling circuit help, but its inevitable. Only fixes would be adding manual fans to the IC, or passive or active cooling ( ie ice tank or Killer Chiller type setup).

kponti

However it does not seem to affect the 2014s nearly as much. Also my E55 was great on cooling even idling but it was split with a much larger HE. In fact the 55 had better IATs than my 63 at normal driving and idling. The 63 has better cooling under WOT

sdg1871

My 2015 E63 S has the divorced cooling system. No heat soak in speed events.

kponti

I have been travelling a lot since I got the car back from havng the AMS cooling kit installed https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ing-setup.html

However I finally took some time to datalog a bit and here is what I've found. NOTE: Temps were in the mid 70s in these tests vs the 50s and low 60 in the first set of tests
There was absolutely NO difference in IATS at normal driving after the kit was installed in the first two days I had it. I went out of town and it sat for a few days.

I got back and started datalogging again...I noticed that while part throttle was still exactly the same as before the kit was installed, WOT was very very different. I took the car to 140-160mph on a Mexican hwy several times and the most it would get up to is 116 degrees (IATS). Recovery was ridiculously fast! But it only recovered down to 100-110 degree ranges
Ok so that's definitely a plus cos that's where it counts. Next, I did the idle test and left it to idle for over 20mins and it crept up to a high of 124 degrees. Once again disappointing but it dropped back to 100 by the time I got up to 30mph when I drove off. That is also a HUGE change.

In all this, I kept hearing a lot of burbling from the front fender (where the reservoir is mounted). So last night I checked the split reservoir on top and it was empty....I added some distilled water and primed the system....I kept adding to the tune of almost a whole liter!. The burbling sounds stopped and I went for another drive. IATS dropped but by a small insignificant margin (90 to 100 degrees). However the recovery I thought was fast got even faster! I did several WOT and the most I got out of it was 106 degree at the top of 4th. Most of my WOT runs were around 100-102 degrees (same as part throttle).
The system literally ignores load. Also my idle IAT creep up issue seems to have disappeared. I stayed at a solid 100 degrees in stop and go, idle etc etc. Bumped up to 104 under WOT and dropped down to 90 on the hwy.

My consensus is that the kit works, but due to some algorithm in way the stock pump works, it likes to keep IATs around 90 to 100 degrees at part throttle. Now I am at that temp even under WOT. Also due to the MASSIVE increase in fluid volume, hoses and tanks, the potential for having air bubbles trapped in there is rather high, so it will take a while to work all that out. This morning the fill reservoir was half empty!!!

I will report back when I have worked out all the air bubble kinks (it does a good job getting rid of the bubbles by itself, I believe it will just take some time).
And in other news, wheelspin is now an issue for the first time since I owned the car or even after I got the RennTech tune. So another dyno will be coming up soon as well.

kponti

Ok I ran out during my lunch and did a few more runs. Temps have held so far between 90 and 110 under part throttle and WOT regardless of how many. The system is working exceptionally well.

But the reason for this post is what I have suspected all along....IATs were definitely contributing to my low dyno numbers. 1st and 2nd gears are worthless now, serious wheelspin galore. From a roll, stop or anywhere in between, it simply boils the tires with flashing triangles the whole way through part of 3rd. Top end pull is definitely improved as well.
This is how I expected a 650-700+rwtq car to behave!

Zod

Drive the 4matic and praise the Germans for making 1rst and 2nd gear a blast , even when moded

I do not know if I have out grown the high end pulls, or if its just the roads being way busier and having more speed cams, but For everydayuse and fun the 4matics win out

gaspam

now you see what i was talking about in the other thread with 500+ whp and being better suited to AWD vs RWD on street tires

kponti

Hahaha ok ok I concede on that!

Seriously though, the car has had some serious traction ever since I bought it, even after I got the tune. This is the first time I am having traction issues. Clearly it was not running right before

jvakos

quick question - so is the “normal” range for 2014+ e63’s IATs around 40-50 Fahrenheit above ambient???? I am stock and havnt monitored this much until I had to take the car to the dealer as I’m seeing some white dried coolant sprayed all over the black reservoir. They pressure tested the cooling system and said it was fine. But it’s 45 F our today in chicago and my dashcommand app is showing IATs at 105-110 while at a red light idleing seems high.

Thanks for any input.

chiromikey

I’m in a 2012 but I typically see 25* over ambient. However, the system does try to target 100-105* IATs.

jvakos

cool appreciate the feedback CM !

Silverp30wagon

What do you have done to charge cooling? My 2012 has seen iats in the 160-170F range with a tune and the stock cooling circuit.

chiromikey

Sorry, when he was asking about “normal” range above ambient I took that to mean while cruising. Running through the 1/4mile I see the same temps as you in 80+* ambient and with stock cooling. With water/meth injection I’m about 30-40* cooler.

kponti

I have the AMS full cooling setup with split cooling. Still idles in the 100-110 range and still heatsoaks at idle to 125-130.
but under WOT, it stays below 130 even in 90-100 degree summers temps. I think I was able to get it to 140+ once on some back to back runs with almost idling stops between

Eurocharged was very impressed with the cooling after several back to back runs on their Dyno.

A whole hour of back to back runs on the Dyno in 70degree weather (at least 10 runs) and the car held 125-130 iats

chiromikey

Since the ECU is set to keep IATs at 100* you can wire the pump to an override switch to precool the IATs before runs but you will get a temporary cel (at least I used to get the cel with my E55). It won’t do anything during runs but it will get your IATs to a lower starting point before the runs or at idle.

kponti

Great idea. But to be honest, I am more concerned about wot temps than starting or idling temps. Drops back down to 100-110 before you get through 1st gear after a long period of idling in 95 degrees of Texas heat.
Normal torque managmen causes more issues with hard starts than iats so I'm not worried about that lol

jvakos

great info thanks guys. Correct, i meant “normal” when cruising so good to know 100-110F range is consistent With what stock cooling should be.

chiromikey

I agree but the idea is that if you start your wot run at a lower starting temp that it will give you more wot time before you reach max temp or heat soak.