What's the deal with the TCU on these cars?
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W212 E63 AMG S Model
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
According to weistec's site, they do TCU plus VB mod so what's the real story? Is a TCU tune alone worth anything or is the VB where the numbers are coming from?
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
That is definitely true, but I think it also has to do with the fact that Mercedes is quickly discontinuing this motor. It only lasted what... 4 years? The E55 motor was a base M113 which was on the market since the late 90s. These motors are quickly diminishing so I think the research and development is moving into the new 4.0TT motors.
I still think we're just the guinea pigs of the market for now. I'm not upgrading my turbos because I have a lot of confidence that these cars can run mid 10s with just bolt ons and proper tuning.
I still think we're just the guinea pigs of the market for now. I'm not upgrading my turbos because I have a lot of confidence that these cars can run mid 10s with just bolt ons and proper tuning.
fwiw, vasily that has the 1100+awhp car says GAD still hasnt figured out the tcu torque limiter... so the numbers he is running is inspite of those limitations...
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
its the valve body that's generating the change... the tcu torque limitations are still not resolved with this upgrage... you just get quicker shifts but the initial bog off the line is still there
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AMG GT S & E63 S AMG
I would say that the initial "bog" got somewhat better with the Weistec transmission mod though...
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
I just think there is still more programming needed of the actually TCU to remove the torque limits or increase them, especially when people start getting bigger turbo upgrades with bigger power
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E63
Why do you think the Wesitec TCU tune does not eliminate it on this platform?
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
also the fact that there is a 1,187 awhp e63 only running mid 10's tells me that the torque limits have not been removed
i have an email out to weistec to see what they say, will update when i hear from them
Last edited by gaspam; Feb 26, 2016 at 09:41 AM.
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From: Maryland
W212 E63 AMG S Model
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My 2012 had full tunes when I got the TCU upgrade. Did I notice when the TCU upgrade, yes I did. Shifts smoother and made my car jump when you put the peddle to the the floor.
If your looking for faster responds, get the TCU.
If your looking for faster responds, get the TCU.
I'm seeing all types of mods on the 2014+ E63 and in terms of track times, they're almost all the same. The turbo upgraded cars run maybe .1 or .2 seconds faster than the car with just downpipes and a tune. Is there any work being made to tune the TCU on these cars to adjust the torque limiter?
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Another factor to consider is the MCT part of the puzzle. The thing that gets the car moving is the muti plate wet clutch. I'm sure there is logic that regulate the pressure, and apply speeds much like the logic in a modern lockup torque converter. Tuning needs to be done to match torque curve of a tuned car to apply and release speeds and pressure of the clutch to get these things to come hard out of the hole. I would bet that is more of the problem that needs to be overcome for being able to net 1.5 60's we need to go low 10's/9s.
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
all i heard back so far from weistec is: The 722.9 TCU valvebody upgrade is designed to provide quicker and firmer shifts
i was also reading this post from MHP on benz boost :
"As far as trans tuning 722.9, there are X number of maps in the TCU that can be changed by the ECU, not all of them or close to it, just a handful or less.
As far as OBD tuning the TCU, if it could be done that would be the method (as that's the same that MB uses to load a file and if you try to open the TCU in a 7G you will break it) however there are 4 tools in the world that can change TCU algorithm and they are all owned by MB. One is in NJ, the other 3 are in Germany. I have seen the suitcase sized tool in New Jersey and it can in fact change things on the live on the fly. It is the tool of all tools!
As far as that tool being developed by a tuner, I'll believe it when I see it and that's not knocking anyone, it's just that I know how difficult it is to break the OBD protocol/encryption. I'm all for Rod, Steve and the crew hacking it, but from what I've seen so far no one has come close."
as for the 722.6 TCU from the E55's weistec does advertise that "improved torque management and faster/ stiffer shifts" , however on the 722.9 TCU they only advertise faster shifts/ stiffer shifts, nut no mention of improved torque management...
all this leads me to believe the 722.9 TCU will make your car shift faster, but will still dump torque when it sees to much...... still a worthwhile mod, just isnt going to solve the TCU torque limiting
i was also reading this post from MHP on benz boost :
"As far as trans tuning 722.9, there are X number of maps in the TCU that can be changed by the ECU, not all of them or close to it, just a handful or less.
As far as OBD tuning the TCU, if it could be done that would be the method (as that's the same that MB uses to load a file and if you try to open the TCU in a 7G you will break it) however there are 4 tools in the world that can change TCU algorithm and they are all owned by MB. One is in NJ, the other 3 are in Germany. I have seen the suitcase sized tool in New Jersey and it can in fact change things on the live on the fly. It is the tool of all tools!
As far as that tool being developed by a tuner, I'll believe it when I see it and that's not knocking anyone, it's just that I know how difficult it is to break the OBD protocol/encryption. I'm all for Rod, Steve and the crew hacking it, but from what I've seen so far no one has come close."
as for the 722.6 TCU from the E55's weistec does advertise that "improved torque management and faster/ stiffer shifts" , however on the 722.9 TCU they only advertise faster shifts/ stiffer shifts, nut no mention of improved torque management...
all this leads me to believe the 722.9 TCU will make your car shift faster, but will still dump torque when it sees to much...... still a worthwhile mod, just isnt going to solve the TCU torque limiting
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Another factor to consider is the MCT part of the puzzle. The thing that gets the car moving is the muti plate wet clutch. I'm sure there is logic that regulate the pressure, and apply speeds much like the logic in a modern lockup torque converter. Tuning needs to be done to match torque curve of a tuned car to apply and release speeds and pressure of the clutch to get these things to come hard out of the hole. I would bet that is more of the problem that needs to be overcome for being able to net 1.5 60's we need to go low 10's/9s.
nevertheless, they eventually got the 7G to handle and shift in auto mode with 1000whp and well over the 600 trq level with their built tranny and upgraded torque converter....
so i agree that i think the wet clutch maybe limiting factor as well as tcu
Last edited by gaspam; Feb 26, 2016 at 04:59 PM.
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
UPDATE--- just confirmed from weistec, the TCU valve body mod does not change the torque limits... response below :
Altering the torque limits in the TCU is something that we only do when we do a full in house build of an AWD 722.9 transmission. We do not do it on just the tcu/valvebody upgrade
Altering the torque limits in the TCU is something that we only do when we do a full in house build of an AWD 722.9 transmission. We do not do it on just the tcu/valvebody upgrade
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E63
UPDATE--- just confirmed from weistec, the TCU valve body mod does not change the torque limits... response below :
Altering the torque limits in the TCU is something that we only do when we do a full in house build of an AWD 722.9 transmission. We do not do it on just the tcu/valvebody upgrade
Altering the torque limits in the TCU is something that we only do when we do a full in house build of an AWD 722.9 transmission. We do not do it on just the tcu/valvebody upgrade
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
So basically pretty useless considering the 722.9 in this car shifts pretty damn well from factory. Would be fun having the minute improvement but I will not risk my warranty over that. I guess I do not have the lag I have been hearing about (2012 model) so I just do not feel anything is wrong with the stock shift algorithm.
if our cars were getting similar 0-60's as the e55s and c63s we would be in low 10's on tune only
but i agree with you on the stock shifting is pretty quick....just getting the first 60 ft isnt great
Last edited by gaspam; Feb 26, 2016 at 05:45 PM.
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E63
Have peeps actually tried? I mean with the 2012/2013 RWD versions on slicks? I see lots of runs mostly on street tires and wet tracks with some sticky tires. I do understand the 2014-2016 will have more limits since the AWD will need to be preserved.
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I have a set of 18" Mt drag radials I'll run in the spring and see where I net out on the 60 ft.
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
all the rest of the 0-60ft for the e63tt on dragtimes are in the 1.8-1.9 but those are stock cars
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UPDATE--- just confirmed from weistec, the TCU valve body mod does not change the torque limits... response below :
Altering the torque limits in the TCU is something that we only do when we do a full in house build of an AWD 722.9 transmission. We do not do it on just the tcu/valvebody upgrade
Altering the torque limits in the TCU is something that we only do when we do a full in house build of an AWD 722.9 transmission. We do not do it on just the tcu/valvebody upgrade
No offence to the people that tried to contribute when they did this mod
As for tuners...GAD seems to be the tuner who has most pushed this platform, just look at their builds
hard ware aside, they have some sick speeds coming out of the 1/4 mile think it s 140mph +
Last edited by Zod; Feb 28, 2016 at 01:26 AM.
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
I still think there's a learning curve for drivers with this platform. The same thing happened with the E55s until we figured out how to launch them...
i dont see a lot of guys here going to track like back on the e55 board, but i mean AMS, weistec and renntech have all taken their cars to the track to publish number and we all know they always post their absolute best times and so far none of their 0-60ft have been great, but actually the AWD 0-60ft is better than the rwd on the e63 dragtimes with ams AWD getting 1.63 while RWD best is 1.78 from renntech (sgc driver who used to always break all the MB records for renntech)
all the rest of the 0-60ft for the e63tt on dragtimes are in the 1.8-1.9 but those are stock cars
all the rest of the 0-60ft for the e63tt on dragtimes are in the 1.8-1.9 but those are stock cars
