What's the deal with the TCU on these cars?
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
Likes: 36
From: Maryland
W212 E63 AMG S Model
What's the deal with the TCU on these cars?
I'm seeing all types of mods on the 2014+ E63 and in terms of track times, they're almost all the same. The turbo upgraded cars run maybe .1 or .2 seconds faster than the car with just downpipes and a tune. Is there any work being made to tune the TCU on these cars to adjust the torque limiter?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 239
E63
I doubt its just the TCU. Weistec has a tcu and VB upgrade and we have still not seen much out of that. Some guys in Europe have been able to break through the ECU torque limiting controls though
That being said, subject has been beaten to death in previous threads, nothing new to add here
That being said, subject has been beaten to death in previous threads, nothing new to add here
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
Likes: 36
From: Maryland
W212 E63 AMG S Model
I doubt its just the TCU. Weistec has a tcu and VB upgrade and we have still not seen much out of that. Some guys in Europe have been able to break through the ECU torque limiting controls though
That being said, subject has been beaten to death in previous threads, nothing new to add here
That being said, subject has been beaten to death in previous threads, nothing new to add here
The guys in europe must have it figured it as there's an E63 there that ran a 10.1... so it can definitely be done.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,542
Likes: 72
From: Palatine, IL
Speedriven
It's the TCU torque limits and the way it's being calculated. Eventually the right guy at Bosch will get bribed the right amount and we'll all be in the 9s more or less within a few weeks of each other. In the meantime, we're looking at a standalone solution that will give us full control, as well as launch control, rolling anti-lag strategies, etc.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,542
Likes: 72
From: Palatine, IL
Speedriven
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,649
Likes: 207
'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Nobody has cracked the potential of the 55 platform yet so I doubt it will happen here any time soon. If anyone gets a stand alone to work I'd be the first in line!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 239
E63
With that nothing gets done and the folks that do do it do not share on this forum IMO.
I read about a guy running a piggyback on his E55 successfully, they eliminates the need for custom tunes for most applications and mods and to some extent even moreso than the tuners are able to do modifying the actual maps. Obviously modifying those maps are "better" since you are not just changing signals, but since we do not have the software to do it ourselves, and the Tuners are not doing it, its not so "better" afterall
Trending Topics
Banned
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,542
Likes: 72
From: Palatine, IL
Speedriven
This is the whole point of going to a standalone. It's definitely better in terms of control, but I don't think the issue is that nobody shares or that tuners aren't willing to do it. It's a matter of cost. A Syvecs S12 Plug-n-play ECU and harness for an Audi R8, for example, is more than $10K. Figure the labor for installation at several hours, plus another several hours of dyno time to custom tune the ECU for the hardware and you're looking at $15-20K easily.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 202
From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
a new M5 just ran 10.1 there toothere was a big stink about this car's time on benz boost
they also had a SL63tt run 10.01 and GLE63s SUV run 10.9 same night, same tuner
hmmm smell like bull poo poo over there
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
Likes: 36
From: Maryland
W212 E63 AMG S Model
It's the TCU torque limits and the way it's being calculated. Eventually the right guy at Bosch will get bribed the right amount and we'll all be in the 9s more or less within a few weeks of each other. In the meantime, we're looking at a standalone solution that will give us full control, as well as launch control, rolling anti-lag strategies, etc.
Now that sounds easier said than done, but we as a community should try to demonstrate the demand by making posts.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,542
Likes: 72
From: Palatine, IL
Speedriven
There's got to be someone else other than "the right guy at Bosch" to do it. I used to own a GT-R and the EcuTek tuners essentially hack the Nissan ECU and TCU to give you all of these capabilities. The car is becomes a turn-key monster from just simple bolt-ons and tunes. No need to run standalone or anything... just requires the right skill-set and demand.
Now that sounds easier said than done, but we as a community should try to demonstrate the demand by making posts.
Now that sounds easier said than done, but we as a community should try to demonstrate the demand by making posts.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
Likes: 36
From: Maryland
W212 E63 AMG S Model
I worked at Switzer for years doing DSM cars and, eventually, GTRs. Those guys are still killing it over there, and it took years of collaboration and concerted effort before anyone got inside the Nissan trans. Even then, it was much, much easier to get into that than the 722.9 GTronic (encryption was easier, signals were easier, etc.), and it still took some backdoor help before the cars were holding up consistent enough to run 9s all day.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 202
From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
plenty of guys are getting 700+ whp out of the m157, its just the launch.. not the overall power
Last edited by gaspam; Feb 24, 2016 at 05:43 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 317
Likes: 4
From: Chicago, IL
AMG GT S & E63 S AMG
Another issue with the launch is the type of AWD system we run with the fixed toque split. I have seen RS7s with just a tune run sub 10.5 quarter miles. That 4.0L motor puts out less torque than our tuned E63s, but the smarter Quattro system gives it an advantage from a dig. A tuned E63 will absolutely destroy the RS7 from a roll though.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,799
Likes: 3,229
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ECU dyno tune; EDOK TCU tune; BB intakes; sprintbooster
There's always something new to add... it's adding demand. The tuners have also become aftermarket part sellers. Until we stop buying their $20k turbo kits, they won't spend the time and effort to look into this. People on this forum just buy mods for show... not any real purpose.
The guys in europe must have it figured it as there's an E63 there that ran a 10.1... so it can definitely be done.
The guys in europe must have it figured it as there's an E63 there that ran a 10.1... so it can definitely be done.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
Likes: 36
From: Maryland
W212 E63 AMG S Model
Yeah, but sometimes it takes someone's deep pockets to invest in the research and development for the platform. It takes a lot of time and money the first time, but what's gained is valuable knowledge and a finished (or near finished) product.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 202
From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 172
Likes: 10
2005 sl55
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
Likes: 36
From: Maryland
W212 E63 AMG S Model
It's a shame that people give up on these platforms so quickly. There's so much potential there and the only solution is to throw more hardware at the car to produce minimal results... And somehow that is acceptable to the community.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,841
Likes: 202
From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
No, it only takes one person to do it and he's done it.
It's a shame that people give up on these platforms so quickly. There's so much potential there and the only solution is to throw more hardware at the car to produce minimal results... And somehow that is acceptable to the community.
It's a shame that people give up on these platforms so quickly. There's so much potential there and the only solution is to throw more hardware at the car to produce minimal results... And somehow that is acceptable to the community.
i have no doubt that when the M157 cars are going for 10-20K used then you will see plenty of 1000+whp e63's .....its all about how big the market is, and its always bigger when the car gets cheaper and more people jump on board
Last edited by gaspam; Feb 25, 2016 at 10:11 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,649
Likes: 207
'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
Likes: 36
From: Maryland
W212 E63 AMG S Model
i dont think anyone is giving up, a lot of people/ tuners just wait until the cars cost around 25-30K and then a bunch of people buy them and then the demand for tuning goes up.... same thing with the E55... when it first came out there was nothing in terms of tuning for it, then came some shorty headers as more people bought the cars used and then as price went down over few years, more people bought them and then came 168m crank pulleys and then a few more years went buy and the e55 depreciated further and more people bought it and then came bigger pulleys, long tube headers, bigger injectors, bigger throttle bodies... and then car depreciated more to where it is now and then came e85 conversions, upper supercharger pulley, aftermarket supercharger kits and twin turbo conversions.... now you can pick up an E55 for 10-20K...
i have no doubt that when the M157 cars are going for 10-20K used then you will see plenty of 1000+whp e63's .....its all about how big the market is, and its always bigger when the car gets cheaper and more people jump on board
i have no doubt that when the M157 cars are going for 10-20K used then you will see plenty of 1000+whp e63's .....its all about how big the market is, and its always bigger when the car gets cheaper and more people jump on board
That is definitely true, but I think it also has to do with the fact that Mercedes is quickly discontinuing this motor. It only lasted what... 4 years? The E55 motor was a base M113 which was on the market since the late 90s. These motors are quickly diminishing so I think the research and development is moving into the new 4.0TT motors.
I still think we're just the guinea pigs of the market for now. I'm not upgrading my turbos because I have a lot of confidence that these cars can run mid 10s with just bolt ons and proper tuning.
