efiftyfizzle

I'm seeing all types of mods on the 2014+ E63 and in terms of track times, they're almost all the same. The turbo upgraded cars run maybe .1 or .2 seconds faster than the car with just downpipes and a tune. Is there any work being made to tune the TCU on these cars to adjust the torque limiter?

kponti

I doubt its just the TCU. Weistec has a tcu and VB upgrade and we have still not seen much out of that. Some guys in Europe have been able to break through the ECU torque limiting controls though

That being said, subject has been beaten to death in previous threads, nothing new to add here

efiftyfizzle

There's always something new to add... it's adding demand. The tuners have also become aftermarket part sellers. Until we stop buying their $20k turbo kits, they won't spend the time and effort to look into this. People on this forum just buy mods for show... not any real purpose.

The guys in europe must have it figured it as there's an E63 there that ran a 10.1... so it can definitely be done.

Speedriven1

It's the TCU torque limits and the way it's being calculated. Eventually the right guy at Bosch will get bribed the right amount and we'll all be in the 9s more or less within a few weeks of each other. In the meantime, we're looking at a standalone solution that will give us full control, as well as launch control, rolling anti-lag strategies, etc.

Speedriven1

My understanding (maybe this is incorrect) was that this wasn't a factory ECU car.

chiromikey

Nobody has cracked the potential of the 55 platform yet so I doubt it will happen here any time soon. If anyone gets a stand alone to work I'd be the first in line!

kponti

One of the reasons IMO is that once you say I want to try a xxx brand aftermarket part on my AMG, you hear the onslaught of "its an AMG not a Honda or American car why would you put this on it?"
With that nothing gets done and the folks that do do it do not share on this forum IMO.

I read about a guy running a piggyback on his E55 successfully, they eliminates the need for custom tunes for most applications and mods and to some extent even moreso than the tuners are able to do modifying the actual maps. Obviously modifying those maps are "better" since you are not just changing signals, but since we do not have the software to do it ourselves, and the Tuners are not doing it, its not so "better" afterall

Speedriven1

This is the whole point of going to a standalone. It's definitely better in terms of control, but I don't think the issue is that nobody shares or that tuners aren't willing to do it. It's a matter of cost. A Syvecs S12 Plug-n-play ECU and harness for an Audi R8, for example, is more than $10K. Figure the labor for installation at several hours, plus another several hours of dyno time to custom tune the ECU for the hardware and you're looking at $15-20K easily.

gaspam

the 10.1 was from pp performance and it was at YAS marina in UAE w/no NHRA certification. also it doesnt really count as that is a notoriously shady track where every car runs amazing times.. like world record times all the time a new M5 just ran 10.1 there too

there was a big stink about this car's time on benz boost

they also had a SL63tt run 10.01 and GLE63s SUV run 10.9 same night, same tuner hmmm smell like bull poo poo over there

efiftyfizzle

There's got to be someone else other than "the right guy at Bosch" to do it. I used to own a GT-R and the EcuTek tuners essentially hack the Nissan ECU and TCU to give you all of these capabilities. The car is becomes a turn-key monster from just simple bolt-ons and tunes. No need to run standalone or anything... just requires the right skill-set and demand.

Now that sounds easier said than done, but we as a community should try to demonstrate the demand by making posts.

Speedriven1

I worked at Switzer for years doing DSM cars and, eventually, GTRs. Those guys are still killing it over there, and it took years of collaboration and concerted effort before anyone got inside the Nissan trans. Even then, it was much, much easier to get into that than the 722.9 GTronic (encryption was easier, signals were easier, etc.), and it still took some backdoor help before the cars were holding up consistent enough to run 9s all day.

efiftyfizzle

Right, but now that you mentioned the 722.9 trans.. isn't this similar to the one in the C63? It seems like that TCU has gone a long way... what's different about these ones?

gaspam

i dont think there is problem getting HP out of the trans, its just a matter of the tcu limiting it from a stop . the whole hesitation off the line issue...

plenty of guys are getting 700+ whp out of the m157, its just the launch.. not the overall power

joseyu

Another issue with the launch is the type of AWD system we run with the fixed toque split. I have seen RS7s with just a tune run sub 10.5 quarter miles. That 4.0L motor puts out less torque than our tuned E63s, but the smarter Quattro system gives it an advantage from a dig. A tuned E63 will absolutely destroy the RS7 from a roll though.

PeterUbers

And vasily estimates he spent over $100k in mods or something crazy

efiftyfizzle

Yeah, but sometimes it takes someone's deep pockets to invest in the research and development for the platform. It takes a lot of time and money the first time, but what's gained is valuable knowledge and a finished (or near finished) product.

gaspam

so you gonna spend $100k like vasily did so we can stop buying 20k turbo kits (though weistec is 8K and ams is 12k)? thanks bro, we appreciate that

PeterUbers

I think a $2500 tune and you're done for most people ...

herpderp

Yeah, I don't see me doing much beyond a tune for my merc. If I want to go crazy again i'll put bigger turbos on my gtr.

IME the merc tuning scene is crap compared to the GTR or BMW N54/N55/S55 scene.

efiftyfizzle

No, it only takes one person to do it and he's done it.

It's a shame that people give up on these platforms so quickly. There's so much potential there and the only solution is to throw more hardware at the car to produce minimal results... And somehow that is acceptable to the community.

Fairbird

I just didi ECU and TCU upgrades done , high 10s according to the vbox , tcu tune alone shaved 0.3 sec of the 1/4 mile time . with just ECU tune the car ran 11.2 .

gaspam

i dont think anyone is giving up, a lot of people/ tuners just wait until the cars cost around 25-30K and then a bunch of people buy them and then the demand for tuning goes up.... same thing with the E55... when it first came out there was nothing in terms of tuning for it, then came some shorty headers as more people bought the cars used and then as price went down over few years, more people bought them and then came 168m crank pulleys and then a few more years went buy and the e55 depreciated further and more people bought it and then came bigger pulleys, long tube headers, bigger injectors, bigger throttle bodies... and then car depreciated more to where it is now and then came e85 conversions, upper supercharger pulley, aftermarket supercharger kits and twin turbo conversions.... now you can pick up an E55 for 10-20K...

i have no doubt that when the M157 cars are going for 10-20K used then you will see plenty of 1000+whp e63's .....its all about how big the market is, and its always bigger when the car gets cheaper and more people jump on board

chiromikey

What tuners are offering TCU tunes for these cars and who did you go with?

Fairbird

I go with weistec .

efiftyfizzle

That is definitely true, but I think it also has to do with the fact that Mercedes is quickly discontinuing this motor. It only lasted what... 4 years? The E55 motor was a base M113 which was on the market since the late 90s. These motors are quickly diminishing so I think the research and development is moving into the new 4.0TT motors.

I still think we're just the guinea pigs of the market for now. I'm not upgrading my turbos because I have a lot of confidence that these cars can run mid 10s with just bolt ons and proper tuning.