efiftyfizzle

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. This is how the competition starts. Who's going to start bribing Weistec now for their secrets?

chiromikey

According to weistec's site, they do TCU plus VB mod so what's the real story? Is a TCU tune alone worth anything or is the VB where the numbers are coming from?

gaspam

i definitely think these cars can run mid 10s with tune and turbo bridge-downpipes no problem (i mean thats close to 700 awhp )... its just a matter of removing the torque limits in the TCU... when someone figures that out we will see mid 10s on tune/full dps and 9s with turbo swaps

fwiw, vasily that has the 1100+awhp car says GAD still hasnt figured out the tcu torque limiter... so the numbers he is running is inspite of those limitations...

gaspam

its the valve body that's generating the change... the tcu torque limitations are still not resolved with this upgrage... you just get quicker shifts but the initial bog off the line is still there

joseyu

I would say that the initial "bog" got somewhat better with the Weistec transmission mod though...

gaspam

i assume the increased line pressure with the valve body upgrade would help out a little there... i definitely think its a worthwhile mod as pretty simple to remove and install in the garage over a weekend and not too costly.. i will definitely betting getting a weistec valve body upgrade in near future

I just think there is still more programming needed of the actually TCU to remove the torque limits or increase them, especially when people start getting bigger turbo upgrades with bigger power

kponti

I remember with the E55, torque limits were removed/raised with the TCU tune (Weistec TCU tune included which I had).
Why do you think the Wesitec TCU tune does not eliminate it on this platform?

gaspam

because they said it somewhere on a post i saw on benz boost... trying to find it, but similar to what used to happen on dadsc63 (the c63 that was running tons of no2 and running low 10s)... they would find that with the big no2 shot the car wouldnt shift in auto even when they did their tcu/valve body upgrade, but they could run the no2 shot in manual after the upgrade.... something about the programming being different and more difficult in the auto logic side of the tcu vs the manual programs logic

also the fact that there is a 1,187 awhp e63 only running mid 10's tells me that the torque limits have not been removed

i have an email out to weistec to see what they say, will update when i hear from them

efiftyfizzle

Very good, this is the kind of discussion I wanted to start.

Davidkuo0330

My 2012 had full tunes when I got the TCU upgrade. Did I notice when the TCU upgrade, yes I did. Shifts smoother and made my car jump when you put the peddle to the the floor.

If your looking for faster responds, get the TCU.

KLR CLS

Another factor to consider is the MCT part of the puzzle. The thing that gets the car moving is the muti plate wet clutch. I'm sure there is logic that regulate the pressure, and apply speeds much like the logic in a modern lockup torque converter. Tuning needs to be done to match torque curve of a tuned car to apply and release speeds and pressure of the clutch to get these things to come hard out of the hole. I would bet that is more of the problem that needs to be overcome for being able to net 1.5 60's we need to go low 10's/9s.

Davidkuo0330

+111111

gaspam

all i heard back so far from weistec is: The 722.9 TCU valvebody upgrade is designed to provide quicker and firmer shifts

i was also reading this post from MHP on benz boost :

"As far as trans tuning 722.9, there are X number of maps in the TCU that can be changed by the ECU, not all of them or close to it, just a handful or less.

As far as OBD tuning the TCU, if it could be done that would be the method (as that's the same that MB uses to load a file and if you try to open the TCU in a 7G you will break it) however there are 4 tools in the world that can change TCU algorithm and they are all owned by MB. One is in NJ, the other 3 are in Germany. I have seen the suitcase sized tool in New Jersey and it can in fact change things on the live on the fly. It is the tool of all tools!

As far as that tool being developed by a tuner, I'll believe it when I see it and that's not knocking anyone, it's just that I know how difficult it is to break the OBD protocol/encryption. I'm all for Rod, Steve and the crew hacking it, but from what I've seen so far no one has come close."


as for the 722.6 TCU from the E55's weistec does advertise that "improved torque management and faster/ stiffer shifts" , however on the 722.9 TCU they only advertise faster shifts/ stiffer shifts, nut no mention of improved torque management...

all this leads me to believe the 722.9 TCU will make your car shift faster, but will still dump torque when it sees to much...... still a worthwhile mod, just isnt going to solve the TCU torque limiting

gaspam

i tend to agree with this as well, because the early 7g 722.9 trans in the c63s had the torque converter and weistec was able to modify the converter's nad finally get the m156's with their stage 2/3 s/c kits to shift beyond 600trq level where previously it wouldnt shift in auto mode at those power levels ( but oddly they could shift if they had it in manual mode... like TCU had different limits depending on if you were in M or auto).....

nevertheless, they eventually got the 7G to handle and shift in auto mode with 1000whp and well over the 600 trq level with their built tranny and upgraded torque converter....

so i agree that i think the wet clutch maybe limiting factor as well as tcu

gaspam

UPDATE--- just confirmed from weistec, the TCU valve body mod does not change the torque limits... response below :

Altering the torque limits in the TCU is something that we only do when we do a full in house build of an AWD 722.9 transmission. We do not do it on just the tcu/valvebody upgrade

kponti

So basically pretty useless considering the 722.9 in this car shifts pretty damn well from factory. Would be fun having the minute improvement but I will not risk my warranty over that. I guess I do not have the lag I have been hearing about (2012 model) so I just do not feel anything is wrong with the stock shift algorithm.

gaspam

i think unless you can hit 1.5x 0-60 ft with then you have the lag as well, as that's what our cars should be getting off the line at with tune only.... E55's and c63's are getting those 0-60fts all day long with less power and similar weight while best we can get are 1.7x with more power

if our cars were getting similar 0-60's as the e55s and c63s we would be in low 10's on tune only

but i agree with you on the stock shifting is pretty quick....just getting the first 60 ft isnt great

kponti

Have peeps actually tried? I mean with the 2012/2013 RWD versions on slicks? I see lots of runs mostly on street tires and wet tracks with some sticky tires. I do understand the 2014-2016 will have more limits since the AWD will need to be preserved.

KLR CLS

I have a set of 18" Mt drag radials I'll run in the spring and see where I net out on the 60 ft.

gaspam

i dont see a lot of guys here going to track like back on the e55 board, but i mean AMS, weistec and renntech have all taken their cars to the track to publish number and we all know they always post their absolute best times and so far none of their 0-60ft have been great, but actually the AWD 0-60ft is better than the rwd on the e63 dragtimes with ams AWD getting 1.63 while RWD best is 1.78 from renntech (sgc driver who used to always break all the MB records for renntech)

all the rest of the 0-60ft for the e63tt on dragtimes are in the 1.8-1.9 but those are stock cars

kponti

What year is your car?

Zod

Well if history is anything to go by its, don't always take a persons butt dyno as fact

No offence to the people that tried to contribute when they did this mod

As for tuners...GAD seems to be the tuner who has most pushed this platform, just look at their builds
hard ware aside, they have some sick speeds coming out of the 1/4 mile think it s 140mph +

KLR CLS

Rwd 13'

kponti

Sweet I can't wait to see the results

chiromikey

I still think there's a learning curve for drivers with this platform. The same thing happened with the E55s until we figured out how to launch them...