Why is m5 faster that e63s
07-16-2016, 07:13 PM
#76
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Most people don't care about roll racing and the ones who do are tools. You don't measure a car's performance on a roll. Car makers don't, car magazines don't, almost no one does.
The famous "On a roll" discussion is on every car board and has been for years. It gives people something to bull**** about.
07-16-2016, 07:17 PM
#77
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The only variable the final drive ratio is derived from is transmission ratios. Yes tire height will change the ratio significantly but since this change happens after the axle, it is NOT calculated into the final drive ratio
So which gear ratio will result in a final ratio of 3.06 may I ask? IE which trans gear can you multiply by 2.65 axle ratio to get 3.06 final ratio?
Yes the wagon has a more aggressive rear diff ratio of 3.06 but nowhere in this thread have I seen references to a wagon. I have only seen sedans that are still 2.65. Stop using round about arguments to bolster your erroneous post.
And since we are quoting magazines, let me also add that Edmunds has the final ratio of the E63s at 3.42
So which gear ratio will result in a final ratio of 3.06 may I ask? IE which trans gear can you multiply by 2.65 axle ratio to get 3.06 final ratio?
Yes the wagon has a more aggressive rear diff ratio of 3.06 but nowhere in this thread have I seen references to a wagon. I have only seen sedans that are still 2.65. Stop using round about arguments to bolster your erroneous post.
And since we are quoting magazines, let me also add that Edmunds has the final ratio of the E63s at 3.42
you still dont get it.... final drive ratio is a calculated value based on rpm and speed (as well as the tire size, top gear ratio and rear diff ratio) , usually measured in top gear and usually at 60 mph ......the 3.06 that MT, MERCEDES come up for FINAL DRIVE RATIO (not rear diff ratio i,e ring and pinion ratio which is 2.65 in our cars) with are different than the edmunds 3.42 because final drive ratio is based of RPM , so obviously they used different mph/rpm when calculating it (maybe they think the standard of 70mph is no longer the norm with more gears and higher cruising speeds, who knows why they used a different speed to measure it)
Last edited by gaspam; 07-17-2016 at 01:32 AM.
07-16-2016, 07:30 PM
#78
I don't know if you realize you're a tool.
Most people don't care about roll racing and the ones who do are tools. You don't measure a car's performance on a roll. Car makers don't, car magazines don't, almost no one does.
The famous "On a roll" discussion is on every car board and has been for years. It gives people something to bull**** about.
Most people don't care about roll racing and the ones who do are tools. You don't measure a car's performance on a roll. Car makers don't, car magazines don't, almost no one does.
The famous "On a roll" discussion is on every car board and has been for years. It gives people something to bull**** about.
Most people do care about roll acceleration and most people do measure cars performance on a roll. Where the cars are not limited by traction and its pure game of engine power, transmission/diff gearing and aerodynamics. IMO
07-16-2016, 07:50 PM
#79
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2019 E63 S
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
... at 186mph the M6 is about two car lengths ahead...
07-16-2016, 08:26 PM
#80
lol 1750 rpm will result in a final drive ratio of 3.06 at 60 mph you still dont get it.... final drive ratio is a calculated value based on rpm and speed (as well as the tire size, top gear ratio and rear diff ratio) , usually measured in top gear and usually at 60 mph ......the 3.06 that MT, MERCEDES come up for FINAL DRIVE RATIO (not rear diff ratio i,e ring and pinion ratio which is 2.65 in our cars) with are different than the edmunds 3.42 because final drive ratio is based of RPM , so obviously they used different mph/rpm when calculating it (maybe they think the standard of 60mph is no longer the norm with more gears and higher cruising speeds, who knows why they used a different speed to measure it)
you still dont get it.... final drive ratio is a calculated value based on rpm and speed (as well as the tire size, top gear ratio and rear diff ratio) , usually measured in top gear and usually at 60 mph ......the 3.06 that MT, MERCEDES come up for FINAL DRIVE RATIO (not rear diff ratio i,e ring and pinion ratio which is 2.65 in our cars) with are different than the edmunds 3.42 because final drive ratio is based of RPM , so obviously they used different mph/rpm when calculating it (maybe they think the standard of 60mph is no longer the norm with more gears and higher cruising speeds, who knows why they used a different speed to measure it)Final drive ratio is simply a multiplication of the rear diff and whichever Trans gear ratio you are using for your calculation. Helps you determine what tire size to use, completely DOES NOT use tire size for calculation, helps you determine what tire height to use
But keep up with your misinformation
07-16-2016, 08:47 PM
#81
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I know you're out there roll racing and have posted lots of vids of you racing pretty much everything out there that's fast
I trust your judgement over all others!
07-16-2016, 08:47 PM
#82
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I don't care if you own both cars. I have driven an F10 M5 (hard) and have raced enough to know IT IS NOT as fast as an E63 S, period. I came from a 996 911 Turbo, what's your point? You know what you're talking about? I'm not sure you do. Everyone on earth seems to agree that the E63 S is faster than a standard F10 M5 but you. The F10 M5 Comp Package can't beat it but somehow your standard F10 M5 is as fast. I call BS.
I got your "Light mods and the car will run this" BS and you really didn't make much of a point.
So go hump your F10 M5 and dream it's faster than the E63 S, in reality it's not and it's indisputable.
I got your "Light mods and the car will run this" BS and you really didn't make much of a point.
So go hump your F10 M5 and dream it's faster than the E63 S, in reality it's not and it's indisputable.
07-16-2016, 08:49 PM
#83
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07-16-2016, 09:02 PM
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07-16-2016, 09:32 PM
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07-16-2016, 09:34 PM
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Essentially every other credible source (that is not proxy's tech) says its a 7g tronic with a multi clutch wet clutch in place of the torque converter
And benz' talking about the dct
Last edited by PeterUbers; 07-16-2016 at 09:46 PM.
07-16-2016, 10:31 PM
#88
When asked about which car is faster and puts down better numbers, you guys say its not about numbers, its about the experience and I should go drive them. But when it comes down to DCT vs MCT then you guys start counting milliseconds :P
The MCT is a great transmission but DCT is on another level. Try one. The downshifts are what makes the difference between DCT and MCT. Its not about numbers
The MCT is a great transmission but DCT is on another level. Try one. The downshifts are what makes the difference between DCT and MCT. Its not about numbers
07-16-2016, 10:44 PM
#89
MCT is one of the best automatic transmissions on the planet! However driving it side BTW side with F10 M5 shows that it leaves just a lil on the table.
AMG must have realized it cos everywhere they could put a DCT, they did!
AMG must have realized it cos everywhere they could put a DCT, they did!
07-16-2016, 10:49 PM
#90
Absolutely! Can you just imagine e63 with a DCT?! AWD+DCT=PERFECT! That would be amazing! Hopefuly the new one comes with the DCT.
07-16-2016, 10:56 PM
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Juuuust wish it engaged a bit better in stop and go scenarios and wish the throttle tip in didn't have the well know delay... But sprint booster really helped my perception of throttle tip in
I find the dct in the cla clunky and annoying in daily driving traffic
07-16-2016, 11:12 PM
#92
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I don't know if you realize you're a tool.
Most people don't care about roll racing and the ones who do are tools. You don't measure a car's performance on a roll. Car makers don't, car magazines don't, almost no one does.
The famous "On a roll" discussion is on every car board and has been for years. It gives people something to bull**** about.
Most people don't care about roll racing and the ones who do are tools. You don't measure a car's performance on a roll. Car makers don't, car magazines don't, almost no one does.
The famous "On a roll" discussion is on every car board and has been for years. It gives people something to bull**** about.
07-16-2016, 11:35 PM
#93
07-17-2016, 12:11 AM
#94
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lol if that makes you feel better, sure... Even though I admitted plenty of times that the rear diff ratio was 2.65 and that I thought he was talking about final drive ratio (which is 3.06) , since rear diff doesn't tell you much if you dont tell what the tranny gears are as well .... That's while final drive ratio is used by the mags for easier comparison to different cars with different tranny gearing and different ring and pinion setup
07-17-2016, 12:34 AM
#95
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http://www.ehow.com/info_8700973_definition-final-drive-ratio.html
Final drive ratio is simply a multiplication of the rear diff and whichever Trans gear ratio you are using for your calculation. Helps you determine what tire size to use, completely DOES NOT use tire size for calculation, helps you determine what tire height to use
But keep up with your misinformation
Final drive ratio is simply a multiplication of the rear diff and whichever Trans gear ratio you are using for your calculation. Helps you determine what tire size to use, completely DOES NOT use tire size for calculation, helps you determine what tire height to use
But keep up with your misinformation
Now can final drive ratio be calculated without tire size? Of course it can... But also, yes, tire diameter has an effect on final drive ratio.. i wont try and explain it to you because its obvious you wont get it but if you want to read up on it, here's a more reputable source of mechanical know-how vs ehow.com lol btw your link was for motorcycles since it was referencing primary gear ratio as one of the inputs
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/148...o-calculating/
here's a litte snippet (keep in mind final gear ratio and final drive ratio are not the same thing, but I'm sure you already knew that)
"Tire diameter will also have an effect on a vehicle's final drive ratio. As tire diameter changes, so will engine rpm at a given speed. We can demonstrate this with the simplified formula: rpm = (mph x final gear ratio x 336*) / tire diameter. For example, given 65 mph, a tire diameter of 30 inches, and a final gear ratio of 4.10, the engine speed will be approximately 2,984 rpm--(65 mph x 4.10 final gear ratio x 336) / 30-inch diameter tire. If we reduce the tire diameter to 25 inches, the engine speed increases to 3,581 rpm. By installing shorter tires, the vehicle will accelerate as though it has a 4.73 (higher numerically) gear without the expense of gear swapping."
you can also approx final drive ratio using formula of Final drive ratio= (engine RPM @ 70mph/ top gear ratio)/ tire revs/mile .... (1750/.73)/784 = 3.0577 ... lets just call it 3.06
Last edited by gaspam; 07-17-2016 at 02:48 AM.
07-17-2016, 12:46 AM
#96
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lol you use "ehow" to get your mechanical info? no wonder you had to hire someone to install your downpipes and seemed to not know much about "turbo fins" as you admitted in another thread
its clear you've never changed a ring and pinion in your life.... tire diameter has an effect on final drive... i wont try and explain it to you because its obvious you wont get it but it you want to read up on it, here's a more reputable source of mechanical know-how vs ehow.com lol
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/148...o-calculating/
here's a litte snippet (keep in mind final gear ratio and final drive ratio are not the same thing, but I'm sure you already knew that)
"Tire diameter will also have an effect on a vehicle's final drive ratio. As tire diameter changes, so will engine rpm at a given speed. We can demonstrate this with the simplified formula: rpm = (mph x final gear ratio x 336*) / tire diameter. For example, given 65 mph, a tire diameter of 30 inches, and a final gear ratio of 4.10, the engine speed will be approximately 2,984 rpm--(65 mph x 4.10 final gear ratio x 336) / 30-inch diameter tire. If we reduce the tire diameter to 25 inches, the engine speed increases to 3,581 rpm. By installing shorter tires, the vehicle will accelerate as though it has a 4.73 (higher numerically) gear without the expense of gear swapping."
its clear you've never changed a ring and pinion in your life.... tire diameter has an effect on final drive... i wont try and explain it to you because its obvious you wont get it but it you want to read up on it, here's a more reputable source of mechanical know-how vs ehow.com lol
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/148...o-calculating/
here's a litte snippet (keep in mind final gear ratio and final drive ratio are not the same thing, but I'm sure you already knew that)
"Tire diameter will also have an effect on a vehicle's final drive ratio. As tire diameter changes, so will engine rpm at a given speed. We can demonstrate this with the simplified formula: rpm = (mph x final gear ratio x 336*) / tire diameter. For example, given 65 mph, a tire diameter of 30 inches, and a final gear ratio of 4.10, the engine speed will be approximately 2,984 rpm--(65 mph x 4.10 final gear ratio x 336) / 30-inch diameter tire. If we reduce the tire diameter to 25 inches, the engine speed increases to 3,581 rpm. By installing shorter tires, the vehicle will accelerate as though it has a 4.73 (higher numerically) gear without the expense of gear swapping."
07-17-2016, 01:04 AM
#97
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yep, the more you change the bigger the affect.... abs has a certain threshold and diff depending on the system.... on my E55 i was able to change tires by 3 sizes without upsetting the abs... on my c63 it was a little more sensitive and got upset after changing by 3 tire sizes
07-17-2016, 01:10 AM
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yep, the more you change the bigger the affect.... abs has a certain threshold and diff depending on the system.... on my E55 i was able to change tires by 3 sizes without upsetting the abs... on my c63 it was a little more sensitive and got upset after changing by 3 tire sizes
I used to take my previous car to the drag away and a few buddies would bring smaller rims for their drive wheels
07-17-2016, 01:28 AM
#99
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... a few 10 second runs prob arent going to set off the abs, but drive it long enough and eventually it might.... but then again its dependent on the car and system.... i can put whatever i want on my cj7 and it will never affect the abs
my c63 would only trigger abs/ traction control error randomly after the tire size change and only on corners. when i changed down one size went away forever.... other guys with same year c63 never had a problem with same larger tire combo... gremlins
07-17-2016, 03:41 AM
#100
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People overpay for things everyday and then rationalize to themselves why they did it. The F10 M5 is a nice car as I have said, but they are way too much for what you get. Just like the ridiculous $135K M4 GTS.
