I THANK WE HAVE A PROBLEM
01-15-2017, 02:25 AM
#101
MBWorld Fanatic!
I pity all of you...our winter temps are 14c...might drop to 10c at night
It gets soo cold I sometimes have to put on a spare hoodie over my T-shirt.
You think maybe you could all adopt the same concept, if you're cold put something on. So just dress up your oil coolers!
Also a MASTER tech told me that the seat warmers additionally help to keep the oil warm, aside from warming up our butt cheeks
He also said that when the butt cheeks are warm the oil flows better as well
It gets soo cold I sometimes have to put on a spare hoodie over my T-shirt.
You think maybe you could all adopt the same concept, if you're cold put something on. So just dress up your oil coolers!
Also a MASTER tech told me that the seat warmers additionally help to keep the oil warm, aside from warming up our butt cheeks
He also said that when the butt cheeks are warm the oil flows better as well
03-23-2017, 05:43 PM
#102
Member
Thread Starter
Sorry about the delay, been incapacitated for a couple months, before all **** broke loose I did change the thermostat and modified it by taking .250, thou off the pin of the oil thermostat , absolutely no difference, I was hoping that would make my oil heat up quicker.it appears the thermostat is working but the motor doesn't make enough heat at normal driving, 60°F Ambient ta it appears the thermostat is working but the motor doesn't make enough heat at normal driving, (60°F ambient temps.)It does not make any sense that the heat exchanger will not get the oil up to the proper temperature and keep it there, I don't know what else to do so I'm putting it to bed, i'll try not let it bother me, even though I know it will and it does any help and this would be greatly appreciated, just for my curiosity of course .
03-23-2017, 10:25 PM
#103
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03-23-2017, 11:22 PM
#104
Member
Thread Starter
A 12 cyc oil is not compatible with an eight cylinder, and has longer journey in the motor so that won't work, you have to use longer molecule oil ! So you can't use it as a pre-heater .
03-23-2017, 11:46 PM
#105
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03-24-2017, 10:18 AM
#107
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
the 12 cyl M275 and 8 cyl M157 both use 5-40 and/or 0-40 mobile 1 oil so 12cyl preheater is fine
03-26-2017, 12:14 PM
#111
Junior Member
Don't forget....
Let's not mention the 53c it gets to there...unofficially of course. Gotta keep those slaves building stuff.
I pity all of you...our winter temps are 14c...might drop to 10c at night
It gets soo cold I sometimes have to put on a spare hoodie over my T-shirt.
You think maybe you could all adopt the same concept, if you're cold put something on. So just dress up your oil coolers!
Also a MASTER tech told me that the seat warmers additionally help to keep the oil warm, aside from warming up our butt cheeks
He also said that when the butt cheeks are warm the oil flows better as well
It gets soo cold I sometimes have to put on a spare hoodie over my T-shirt.
You think maybe you could all adopt the same concept, if you're cold put something on. So just dress up your oil coolers!
Also a MASTER tech told me that the seat warmers additionally help to keep the oil warm, aside from warming up our butt cheeks
He also said that when the butt cheeks are warm the oil flows better as well
10-18-2018, 01:32 PM
#112
Senior Member
I had to stop at a few places while in the E63 today. When I got into the car after my first stop, the oil temp read 67C. I thought, "Great the car is almost up to temperature." (It turns white at 71C). I then got onto the highway and watched the temp proceed to drop, falling to 64C.
I guess the oil cooling system isn't controlled by a thermostat, and the -18C ambient temperature at highway speeds cooled the oil faster than the engine warmed it.
I guess the oil cooling system isn't controlled by a thermostat, and the -18C ambient temperature at highway speeds cooled the oil faster than the engine warmed it.
wanted to jump into this thread to maybe shed some light on the coolant and oil temps..
the coolant on our cars is controlled by the ecu via a variable thermostat.
That means the ecu will go from 0 coolant flow around the engine and rad.. to partial coolant flow only around the engine, then to flowing coolant around the entire engine and rad, then to fully open with max flow, up until the engine is heated up to normal operating temps. Amg does this for emissions of course.
The oil cooling.
Our oil is cooled via a small oil to water cooler, that is under the oil filter housing, and also of course via the oil to air cooler via the front lower center bumper.
On cold start, the oil thermostat on the oil cooling rad is closed for speedy heating. Only the oil to water cooler is used.
What most people miss is that our oil pumps have two stages that is also controlled by the ecu aswell.
A low oil flow pressure stage of about 29 psi, which is used for low rpm, partial throttle driving. Not much oil is being pushed around the engine at this stage, and even the piston cooling sprays are shut off, which also reduces heat.
The High oil flow pressure stage of about 58 psi (4bar), which comes on for more agressive driving and or stop and go, non highway cruising. At this point, the oil pump is pushing all the oil it can everywhere, along with the spray nozzles under the pistons. This will heat up the oil quicker. Of course.
This is both reasons as to why our oil takes so long to come up to temp,
along with why sometimes on highway cruises as I and a few memebers have noticed, our oil temps actually drop back below the blue 176 mark.
I also would like to stress the importance of practicing low rpms and low load until the engine is up to temp for the engine and turbos sake. ESP if modded.
Last edited by 5soko; 10-18-2018 at 02:49 PM.
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10-18-2018, 11:10 PM
#113
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
....love this thread ... correction: I thank i love this thread
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CaliBenzDriver (04-06-2024)
10-19-2018, 03:51 PM
#114
10-22-2018, 02:41 PM
#115
Member
Thread Starter
It’s nice to hear that you know how the system works/I am an ex-Mercedes-Benz mechanic retired and me and my buddies at the dealer around my car under the high speed pump or high-pressure to no avail, still took the same amount to heat up I try not to pay too much attention to it since it can make me lose sleep, I’m a little wacko and ****. It still doesn’t make any sense there is an oil cooler/heat exchanger and oil should heat up close to what the water heats up and as we know that is Mirror minutes. As I said before my friend had one of these motors completely torn down at 120,000 and looked as new quite quite beautiful. It sure would be nice To be able to jump on this thing before 1520 minutes of driving oh well that’s not that easy either since his car is so damn fast I am trying to learn to live with that this may bring back nightmares time to make appointment for a psychiatrist have a good day
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CaliBenzDriver (04-06-2024)
04-06-2024, 06:18 PM
#116
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @55kMi
All layed out clearly !
wanted to jump into this thread to maybe shed some light on the coolant and oil temps..
the coolant on our cars is controlled by the ecu via a variable thermostat.
That means the ecu will go from 0 coolant flow around the engine and rad.. to partial coolant flow only around the engine, then to flowing coolant around the entire engine and rad, then to fully open with max flow, up until the engine is heated up to normal operating temps. Amg does this for emissions of course.
The oil cooling.
Our oil is cooled via a small oil to water cooler, that is under the oil filter housing, and also of course via the oil to air cooler via the front lower center bumper.
On cold start, the oil thermostat on the oil cooling rad is closed for speedy heating. Only the oil to water cooler is used.
What most people miss is that our oil pumps have two stages that is also controlled by the ecu aswell.
A low oil flow pressure stage of about 29 psi, which is used for low rpm, partial throttle driving. Not much oil is being pushed around the engine at this stage, and even the piston cooling sprays are shut off, which also reduces heat.
The High oil flow pressure stage of about 58 psi (4bar), which comes on for more agressive driving and or stop and go, non highway cruising. At this point, the oil pump is pushing all the oil it can everywhere, along with the spray nozzles under the pistons. This will heat up the oil quicker. Of course.
This is both reasons as to why our oil takes so long to come up to temp,
along with why sometimes on highway cruises as I and a few memebers have noticed, our oil temps actually drop back below the blue 176 mark.
I also would like to stress the importance of practicing low rpms and low load until the engine is up to temp for the engine and turbos sake. ESP if modded.
The only corrections I would make are about the oil thresholds of the dual-rate vane pump.
The 2 and 4Bars are the MAX capped values.
Effective pressure is what needs rework here.
So overall complaints is:
"My oil is too cold and heats very slowly!", yes?
This is caused by the oil not being sprayed onto dry pistons at normal driving RPM.
To remedy that condition MOD2.1 provide necessary oil pressure to open squirters at driving RPM. Circulated oil removes extreme pistons heat.
> EXPECTED BENEFITS:
- Sealed wet rings with lower blow-by
- Longer lived oil properties with unburned oil
- Temperature regulated oil with stable viscosity
- Longer lived engine plastics parts
- Well lubricated HPFP lobes and shafts
- MOD1 prevents solenoid fatal jam!
I am going to go out on a limb to say that working pressure is likely to preserve VVT locks from wearing out while driving on stock pressure.
NOW THIS LONG THREAD HAS A $5 SOLUTION.
CALI.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 04-06-2024 at 06:57 PM.
04-09-2024, 10:03 AM
#117
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2019 911 GTS / 2016 X3 / 2015 E63s / 1993 RX-7
FWIW my 2015 E63s take a long time to warm up the oil. In stop and go traffic it gets there in 10-20 minutes depending on how cold it is outside. -40F it takes 20 min in stop and go traffic.
On the highway in the winter it may never get up to operating temp (out of the blue range), but just hover at the edge of the temps between blue and white.
The dealership says this is normal. I am not impressed. I suspect that there is due to oil passing through the cooler and being too effective at managing the heat. I suspect a thermostat in the oil line to the cooler could help manage this issue, or blocking off the cooler in the winter.
In the summer it still takes time. In contrast my C63 would get the oil up to a proper temp much quicker, and never had a problem keeping the oil warm on the highway in the winter. My colleagues w213 does not have any problem keeping the oil warm in the winter on the highway.
On the highway in the winter it may never get up to operating temp (out of the blue range), but just hover at the edge of the temps between blue and white.
The dealership says this is normal. I am not impressed. I suspect that there is due to oil passing through the cooler and being too effective at managing the heat. I suspect a thermostat in the oil line to the cooler could help manage this issue, or blocking off the cooler in the winter.
In the summer it still takes time. In contrast my C63 would get the oil up to a proper temp much quicker, and never had a problem keeping the oil warm on the highway in the winter. My colleagues w213 does not have any problem keeping the oil warm in the winter on the highway.
04-09-2024, 05:10 PM
#118
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @55kMi
amazing low pressure ...
FWIW my 2015 E63s take a long time to warm up the oil. In stop and go traffic it gets there in 10-20 minutes depending on how cold it is outside. -40F it takes 20 min in stop and go traffic.
On the highway in the winter it may never get up to operating temp (out of the blue range), but just hover at the edge of the temps between blue and white.
The dealership says this is normal. I am not impressed. I suspect that there is due to oil passing through the cooler and being too effective at managing the heat. I suspect a thermostat in the oil line to the cooler could help manage this issue, or blocking off the cooler in the winter.
In the summer it still takes time. In contrast my C63 would get the oil up to a proper temp much quicker, and never had a problem keeping the oil warm on the highway in the winter. My colleagues w213 does not have any problem keeping the oil warm in the winter on the highway.
On the highway in the winter it may never get up to operating temp (out of the blue range), but just hover at the edge of the temps between blue and white.
The dealership says this is normal. I am not impressed. I suspect that there is due to oil passing through the cooler and being too effective at managing the heat. I suspect a thermostat in the oil line to the cooler could help manage this issue, or blocking off the cooler in the winter.
In the summer it still takes time. In contrast my C63 would get the oil up to a proper temp much quicker, and never had a problem keeping the oil warm on the highway in the winter. My colleagues w213 does not have any problem keeping the oil warm in the winter on the highway.
As you know MB dealers network can only deliver standard approved services.
-- Right now you have cold oil + dry-lubed pistons.
-- You're missing spray cooling disabled by low oil pressure.
-- You want warm circulated oil + cooled pistons.
You can take this into your own hands under $10. No work necessary - Look at the thread pointed to prior to your post.
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