c63amgs4

Hi Everyone,

I am currently a B8 S4 owner and really enjoy the car but am considering moving to either a Porsche 911 4S or an E63S. I know they are completely different cars but they really each have their merits. I dont need the space, but I do appreciate the power and comfort as well as amenities like keyless and blindspot along with Distronic in the AMG. 911 is much more raw for my long commute. Drove an E63S over the summer and really enjoyed the power, mixed with the sound as well as the comfort. I do have two questions though for everyone.

First, being 6'5", every inch of headroom matters for me, it is a bit tight in my S4, and what I am wondering is does the normal sunroof provide more or less headroom than the panorama roof. I have sat in Panorama roof cars and it seems to be just on the edge similar to my S4. Wagons are more roomy it seems, but I would have to go with an older wagon like a 14 compare to a 16 sedan due to pricing, so I think I would prefer a sedan so I could get more CPO warranty. I sit very upright when driving, so this just attributes to even less headroom compared to people that sit more reclined.

Second, how does everyone find the transmission? I know that it is the weak link at least in the 14 and 15. The 16 I know they had a new transmission design put in and I verified this by the part number. I have heard people say the 14 and 15 though is dangerous due to how it will be unpredictable from a start. I am coming out of a dual clutch in my S4 so I know it won't be as good, but I just dont want it to be dangerous. I noticed a slight delay in the 14 I drove but I wasn't paying much attention to that at the time. I would also like to thank PeterUbers for his input on this matter when I had asked him. If everyone says to get a 16 due to the transmission alone that is probably what I will do. Plus more CPO.

Thanks!

Amg63-

From what I heard the 16 models have the same
delay from a stop as the 14-15 models. I really wonder what exactly they changed in the 16 e63...

Astolfo

I have 2 E63s wagons, a 15 and a 16 (and had 16 GTS until a couple of weeks ago).


The 15 has some lag; but after an adaptation is firm, quick and responsive. The 2016 after the adaptation the MCT was as good as the GTs' DCT. No lag to speak off in the 16 wagon.


Car for car the I would go for the 911 if it was my only choice which I have too.

10speed

Sorry , what do you mean by adaptation?

Astolfo

If I understand correctly, they adapt the gear gaps, when cold, operating temperature and hot. Depending in which of the 16 you got you could have gotten different mechanicals and off-course software. My 16 wagon has it.


All according to my Tech, that I have showed him how to appreciate a good customer with a case of beer from the local brewery and a couple of bills for Christmas.
A very small price for the joy to know I am taken care and no BS.

Amg63-

I don't understand this. Your saying some 2016 models have no lag and some do?

did they really change hardware and software from 14-15 on 16 e63?

i wonder what they did...

Astolfo

All what I am saying is the 2015 MCT got adapted and shifts incredibly better and has some lag.
The 2016 MCT after adaptation was as good if not better than the GTS' DCT. and suffer from NO lag.


they changed some parts in the 2016, thy showede in the schematic but do not remember the names.

Amg63-

Interesting, I know the lag is there because of the torque limits in the TCU and I imagine that Extra protection for the transmission/drivetrain is still there for 2016. They probably tweaked the software to give it a lower torque limitation or something.

Thanks for the update.

Astolfo

I asked my Tech this morning and he said that the transmission for the mid to late 16 models have quite a few changes in hardware to deal with the low end torque and that the power curve has been adjusted.

I will have to add that after the adaptation the 15 also lost a lot of the lag and clunks. the improvement is pretty amazing IMHO. I do not mind driving the 15 anymore. It feels like my (now gone) 2014 SQ5's transmission, that smooth but a lot more tight.

Amg63-

It would be interesting if you can compare a tuned 14-15 e63 vs a stock/tuned 2016 e63.

With a tune on a 14 model, the power curve changes and much of the lag is eliminated as the throttle response and overall character of the car gets much more aggressive. At the same time, an ECU tune does not touch/adjust the TCU at all so the off the line lag is not completely gone.

I do wonder if a stock 16 can jump off the line quicker than a tuned 14 model.

can you ask the tech also if any changes were made from 14 to 15? I wonder if every year they did something to improve the MCT or only on 16+.

Astolfo

Maybe you can assure the difference if you were a robot. I think there is no way a normal human can consistently react within 1-2 ms.
Anyhow, if your transmission is clunky and have a lot random lag get it adapted by a competent Tech. I think you will be impressed at the difference.
I hated the 15, now it is pretty close to my gone 16 GTs' DCT. As usual this is my experience and by no definition I consider myself anything more than an aficionado.

raudiace4

I had a B8 S4 before getting my 14 E63 almost 1.5 years ago. I miss the S4's size, it was a fun car but once the warranty ended it was a nightmare. I was stage 2+ and FBO so that probably was the main reason. E63 has been flawless aside from a blown rear deck speaker that was replaced under warranty CPO and i've been tuned for over 15K miles now.

The trans will lurch on all W212 facelift cars, but there was an update to smooth it out. It's a part of the MCT AMG trans you have to live with it. Overall a really good car, but you might miss the smaller size of the S4. If all you care about is straight line speed E63 is a good choice as even a stock E63 is in a different league compared to a stage 2 s4. If you care about handling and corners then get the 911.

Amg63-

thanks I will need to try that. How does a tech adapt it? Does he hook it up to something or what's the process he does for that?

i thought just driving it hard made it adapt to faster shifting.

c63amgs4

Thanks everyone for the info!

Astolfo

I believe that what they do is adjust the gear centers. It has nothing to do with when the shifting happens. It is a mechanical positioning done via the TCU I believe. I do understand that it is important to do at the 3 different temperature ranges.

Amg63-

I never heard about this ever being done for this car. This is news to me

so the dealer will do this if I go in and ask for it? It's not a tuner right?

Astolfo

Done by the dealer.


I went on a ride on both cars, reproduced the clunky shifting, in both cars.


In the 2015 I also reproduced the unpredictable lag.


The 2016 had never had any lag to speak of.

Now the lag on the 2015 is almost non existent and at least is consistent now thus I can adjust my driving.


The same Tech worked on my (now gone) 2016 GTs. The 2016 wagon shifts as good and with more authority than the GTs. The 2015 wagon is very close to it.

V8Avant

I was concerned I would be disappointed with the transmission in my 2016 E63S Wagon. I can report that there are no issues with lag and, coming from a manual, I'm frankly pleased with it. It strikes the right balance between smoothness and speed and it's better than a DCT IMHO. Note I'm wasn't looking for a PDK experience. The 2016 7spd MCT strikes the right balance.