03RSTT

Hey everyone,

I just picked up a 13 E63 w/40k so it should have the updated divorced intercooler system. I wanted to baseline some issues before I modify anything.

I have noticed some slight ping on heavy throttle in say rolling 2nd gear pulls so I wanted to check the IATs and be sure the intercooler pump is working. So I ran dash command today and found IAT temps to be between 120 and 130 in city driving. Outside temps about 85 degrees in Phoenix metro today.

40 degree delta normal for city driving?

I have had the car several months and used different stations 91 premium gas here in AZ. 91 is all we get in hot AZ.

gaspam

i think 13's run a little hotter than 14+ as mine runs about 100-110 IAT in 90+F humid FL weather.... after a few WOT pulls from 60 to 110 it will run up to 130 IAT but never goes much past 130 IAT for me

40F IAT delta seems kinda high for normal driving

chiromikey

I've only done some limited data logging at the track but I was getting some pretty high temps in my '12. I lost all the logs when my phone crashed but maybe one of the guys I sent it to will chime in if they still have the conversations. I want to say I was reaching 170* at the end of the run but don't quote me.

I'm also in Phoenix and the climate here absolutely kills performance. Geno and I just went to the track on Friday and everyone was a good half second and 5mph off of the "typical" times people report in other parts of the country.

I'll do some logs over the next few days and report back.

Geno51

Agreed the times were off and mph down due to temps. Mike and I were both identical in the drop of power from heat soak. We both should of been in the 125-127 mph range but struggled to get into the 122 range. Both of us hit 122 stock. But as we found out a turbo upgraded and tuned GTS could not do better then our times so clearly heat soak is an issue

03RSTT

Hey, I had the E55 back in the old fuel tank days. Too funny we both come back the biturbo. I still have all my Audi's but picked up this E63 because it's a good platform and like the way it drives.

I almost came out Friday. Too busy at work and too hot. Moved to Mesa last year and can't find my dang helmet! Give me an idea on your times so far and maybe we can meet up next Friday. Weather looks better.

I want to get a handle on these IATs because it's key to getting the best timing profile for power.

03RSTT

I think the 13s have the better cooling package.

Checked a few more points tonight.

Yep city driving 120-130 and that's mixed in with 45mph speeds.

Hwy 75mph and evening temps at 80 degrees results in 105-107 IATs

25 delta on hwy

40 delta in city/ mixed

Any documentation on how often the ic pump runs? When does it run and what triggers it? Anyone configure to run constantly?

chiromikey

I had (still have actually) two E55s so I remember the fuel tank issue well. I mistakenly assumed after over a decade of AMG watching us deal with heat soak issues that they would have done a better job with this one. I probably had the most extensive heat exchanger set up ever done on an E55 and it still couldn't compensate for the severely inadequate intercooler core. I'm not even going to bother trying to compensate for AMGs poor design this time. Meth will be my bandaid.

I've run 11.4 @ 127 with a 1.9 60ft on street tires in decent weather (2000ft d/a). Best I could do on Friday was 11.52 @ 122 with a 1.81 60ft and 3000ft d/a.

I don't think there's another open track night until April 7.

gaspam

i have you're logs before you did any cooling mods (cant remember if you did the splt cooling yet?) .... we did a comparison and you were maxing out at 150.8 ( i think we were both in 80s ambient as it was november)

gaspam

13's have the improved split cooling but i remember reading the 14+ s-models have an additional aux cooling exchanger so improves a little more

as for pump on always, I think ttmerc wired his to be always on

really best solution for our cars is meth

Amg63-

Ive been trying to find that info on the 14's but cant seem to find it

03RSTT

Ok,

So here is the deal. This morning driving into work

65 degrees

Hwy 75mph...........IAT 107-109. Clearly the pump is not running because these are the same temps as last night with 20 degree higher ambient.

I gave it some boost a couple of times and the IATs did drop to the low 90s. So, if you heat it up or get into boost the IC pump will come on and starting flowing the IC system. But then the pump stops again and IAT creeps right back up to 109. BS

What do we know about the IC coolant pump circuit? And how can we trigger key on IC pump to run all the time? I dont care if it shortens the life of the pump....I want cool IAT temps all the time. Heat soak is bad enough as it is....to not let the IC pump run is stupid.

Chiro...have you done anything to your IC pump to make it run all the time? Seems like that would help a great deal in addition to the meth you have planned. But, the IC pump can be done right now and it seems clear that its needed.

My boost is only hitting 12psi and A/F does make it down to 12:1 but it takes a bit so it may be alittle lean.

TTMerc

I have a 14+ and I had the same issues. Was even worse when the temps were in the 40F's and the iat wanted to sit around 100. The pump is triggered by temperature as it states in the service manual. It shoots for around 100 at all times. I hard wired my pump and it stays about 10 degrees F from ambient at hwy speeds. In the city, just depending on A/C, Traffic, and ambient temps can get into the 130's. To me it seems if air isn't being pulled through the iats will show pretty high since the air is pretty stagnant. But lets say you're in stop and go traffic then get on the hwy and go 75mph. The temps will drop really quick especially under small boost.

03RSTT

Very nice TTmerc

I did manage to find one of your threads. Good info

So is the pump switched power or ground? In other words did you direct ground or direct power to run w key

TTMerc

Thank you!
Its pretty confusing because I read all the great articles on different pumps etc then when I looked at mine it it had 3 wires instead of 2. I read to combine the two wires to ground but didn't end up doing that. The red wire ended up being the only one needed. The pump seems to ground on the bracket. So I simply added a relay to switch from battery voltage with a 30amp fuse.

Here is a pic of the plug and harness.

Only thing I haven't tested but might now since temps are warming up is to make sure its running at 100%. I've read it may need to see resistance on the signal wire to do so.

chiromikey

Got this from a good Benz guy and I think everyone wants to know this...

jvakos

I'm 6 months in with my 15 E63 and have not figured out what normal IAT ranges are... i'm consistently at 100F or slightly above when ambient temps are 20F to 50F. that seems high to me coming from my c32 which was consistently 30F above ambient (clearly very different cars and technologies)

i live in chicago and bought the car in October last year so its never seen temps above about 75 thus far so perhaps 100F IAT is acceptable.

I'm just wondering when driving in 30-40F ambient temps should the IATs be below 100F ???

chiromikey

Did you read the illustration right above your post?

jvakos

sorry embarrassed to admit but i can barely read that since its quite blurry and at 46 my eyes suck, but I did look and appreciate you sharing that mikey.

from what i could read, it appears the charge air circulation pump will keep the temp at below 70C (or 158F) and also noticed it doesnt activate below 40F if I am reading that correct?

So should I interpret this as to not plan to monitor a specific set range for IATs that is XX temps above ambient, but to just monitor the specific IAT reading? for example i have seen driving in 30F ambient and then 100F IAT, or if its 60F ambient it stays around 100F IAT normal driving so that is considered normal...yes?

thx in advance

chiromikey

It is blurry so I can't fault you there.

The ECU turns on the I/C pump when IATs get above 113f and off when temps get below 104f. So for whatever reason AMG decided to keep IATs hovering just above 100* regardless of ambient temps.

I'm still trying to figure out AMG's thought process on IATs because they've screwed up the I/C system on every forced induction car except the SLR.

Mikeki7

The picture mentions NOx emissions. Maybe the setup is to comply with emissions and at those temperature ranges is where the lowest NOx amount is produced. Or its just a balance of emissions/pump life, don't they run these engines for long periods of time when they were developed, one would think they are able to find the right balance, leaning more towards emissions.

V-AMG

timm206

cij911

Bump for additional information on IAT and turning on the pump via an ECU tune.

I have been logging my 100% stock car and thought something was wrong with my IAT readings as they seemed to stay relatively flat and were quite a bit higher than I thought they should be to start. Reading the posts above I now understand why.

On a third gear pull with 68* - 70* ambient temperature, my IATs start at 102* and climb to 109*.

On a 1- 3 gear pull with 68* - 70* ambient temperature, my IATs start at 102* and stay at 102* until 3rd gear, in third gear the IATs climb to 109* by redline.

So a few thoughts:
(1) I am not running crazy boost, like I have on other platforms, and the stock setup seems pretty adequate / turbo is in the efficiency area (imagine that)
(2) The IATs might be able to get a little lower if the pump runs continuously - I wonder if there will be really any real world benefit

I really don't want to splice or cut wires and would love to change a value in the ECU tune to turn the pump on anytime the IATs are greater than 10* or just always. Wondering if you guys have done this and what you've seen as a result.