E63s wagon introduction, and Carmax warning
03-21-2018, 10:59 AM
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E63s wagon introduction, and Carmax warning
If you’ve watched Doug Demuro’s videos on his AMG wagon, he said a lot of people talk about buying one of these someday but never follow through with it usually getting an SUV or something more normal. Well this is now in my garage, a 2014 black on black, E63s AMG wagon. It was the only one for sale at carmax nationwide.
I had been looking at these AMG wagons since last Fall after getting frustrated chasing 2010-2012 BMW E91 sport 6spd manual wagons. I lost out on one by minutes calling right when the dealer opened but the other buyer got the internet sales team to reply via web chat and take a deposit minutes before me. A different one, blue, stunning low mileage sport 6spd that I tried to buy was snagged by EAG and then flipped immediately for $10k more. I was so pissed off! Then as the number of wanted to buy 6spd wagon posts piled up on the E91 forum, I decided not to participate in the chase and hysteria for one of these cars.
Truthfully my biggest concern was I didn’t know if I could give up driving a manual after 20 years always having one as a daily driver. The “save the manuals” calls on social media and car magazines nagged at my conscience. My years of manual trans snobbery to anyone who would listen would get thrown back in my face!
Once I started to consider non manual cars it really opened up the options. I looked at a lot of cars, new and used, but sitting in the E63s AMG for the first time at a local Mercedes dealer nailed it for me, firm sport seats, German build quality with machined metal trim and buttons, beautiful yet sinister looking long-roof profile... For such a rare car there are usually about a dozen for sale on autotrader. So I kept watching but surprisingly this showed up on CarMax’s site.
Besides the fee to transfer it from the west coast carmax to the one near me, I purchased the carmax maxcare extended warranty up to 125k miles and 5 years, $150 deductible for $3940. The car is one owner in Los Angeles, 24.5k miles. The original warranty runs out in about 2 months but the carmax 5 year and relatively low miles on it already make it close to getting one new.
I fitted Nokian Hakka 255/35/19 snow tires for Minnesota on the stock 19" wheels.
03-21-2018, 11:04 AM
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Part 2
Here's an update on my wagon that I haven't driven very much lately. First I was in India for work for 11 days, more on that later.
Before I left I had the pre-purchase inspection done by a local Mercedes dealer the day after I bought the car, because Carmax refuses to let you get one. I suppose you could go take a car from carmax on a test drive and try to get it done, but Carmax's answer for everything is their 5 day return policy and 60 day warranty. The Mercedes dealer only found that the fuel door was loose and required replacement for about $400. I called Carmax and they insisted that they do the work which involves drilling out plastic rivets and getting inside the quarter panel. I wasn't comfortable with them doing that in their service area preferring to have an actual Mercedes shop do it.
Right before I was heading on my business trip, I went to get a clear bra installed. They called me shortly after I got back to work and said "you know the hood and bumper have been painted right? Poorly". No, I didn't know that and given that it was February and usually stupid cold outside, I hadn't spent a lot of time admiring the car in the garage to notice. Also when I picked the car up and did a walkaround (it was at night) I focused more on any obvious door dings and panel gaps. And I had my 8 year old daughter with me, so again, not the best time to really inspect a car.
I told them not to do the clear bra obviously, and I took the car to my guy Mike at the Mercedes Benz dealer body shop (Sears Imports) that did all the body and paintwork on my E12, and also repainted the front bumper on my Speed Yellow M3. Mike confirmed it had been repainted poorly with dirt in the clearcoat, thin paint, and it was very "dry" and not applied well. I also showed him the loose fuel door and he explained how it needed to be fixed confirming that I didn't think Carmax was up to the job. This was around Feb 14th.
I left for my India trip and the weeks went by. I scheduled an appointment with Carmax to confirm the paint issues, had to reschedule due to a big snowstorm here, and finally didn't get the car in until Monday March 12th. The Carmax service manager came right out and immediately confirmed the paint issues. He went on further to tell me Carmax had painted the hood and bumper! This was done at the Los Angeles Carmax that had the car originally. Of course none of this was disclosed to me when I bought it and I was pissed off to hear this. We went back and forth about Carmax's standards of quality. He wanted to buff it to get the dirt out of the clearcoat, and didn't think anything was wrong with the bumper to require a repaint. I said, why was it given a pass as meeting Carmax standards in LA, but now you're saying it doesn't meet standards? He wanted to buff the hood and then if that didn't improve the paint, then they would repaint it again. Why would I let them repaint it, when they were so inept the first time (I pointed out the overspray on the front headlight)? All I got back was quotes about policy and their 60 day warranty. I wanted to take it to the Mercedes bodyshop and have Carmax pay for it, but they refused. I left saying I was going to get the paint fixed on my dime but I was filing a complaint with their corporate.
I dropped the car off with Mike that same day, March 12th. I'm in a meeting the next day and Mike texts me and says he has bad news and can I call him. After I broke free and called him, he tells me someone mangled the front bumper and tried to cover it up with glue and staples so it was barely held together. Some of the ductwork behind the bumper into the heat exchangers and radiator was also bent up. When I asked if he thought it had been wrecked he said not from what he could see, but he thought someone did a real number on the front bumper parking on a curb and probably ripped it off when they reversed off the curb. The bumper was $1500 and is unique to the E63S wagon, and there was one in the US. I said go ahead with the work, I would try fighting carmax but otherwise I'd be stuck paying out of pocket.
I filed a complaint with carmax corporate who were very helpful and promised a quick resolution (24 hours). I had high hopes. Then the same Company-Policy-Touting service manager called me a few hours later, the same one that saw the paint the day before and wanted to buff it. Round and round again, only now we have a $1500 bumper on top of it. How could carmax have missed the bumper repair when they inspected the vehicle? How could they have painted the bumper and not seen all the damage? He was very careful with his responses, reading a script, but told me the bumper was painted on the car and they didn't repair it. But he said two things that were more troubling, 1) there was an approved procedure to repair front bumpers with glue and other materials if they didn't require full replacement according to Carmax's standards and 2) his service shop at the local Carmax paints 35 cars a week and has expertise to get the paint and body work done well. That struck me as very odd, 35 cars a week? Just how many other vehicles besides my wagon does Carmax paint and work on before selling, touting the clean carfax but not divulging to the customer that they painted it? I'm sure it happens a ton and Carmax is deceitful about it.
Last Thursday I started getting very sick from a bad cold I'd contracted after my trip (remember India in February)? I've been at home since then and confirmed with Monday's chest x-ray that I have pneumonia. I'm trying to rest, take my antibiotic, and avoid the hospital. The body shop got the first AMG bumper in last week and it was damaged in shipment. They received another one today and they are proceeding with the paint and reassembly, then on to the clear bra place.
In hindsight there are a lot of things I could have done better to inspect the car more closely vs trusting Carmax. Notice Doug Demuro doesn't talk about paint and bodywork when he does videos on the Carmax business model and extended warranty, and I was very focused on getting the extended warranty. The $3k or so it will cost me to fix this paint and front bumper mess isn't going to break me, this isn't a poor me saga. But I'd prefer not to have to spend the money had Carmax been up front or at least had been customer satisfaction focused when I raised the issues to their attention. I also placed faith in the pre-purchase inspection abilities of a dealership and it's the 2nd time this has let me down (also on my E46 wagon when I bought it). I have two calls into the Mercedes service department asking them to call me back and explain why they suck at inspecting cars and missed the front bumper damage, paintwork, and overspray. No calls back yet. By the way there are three local Mercedes dealers, and the one that did the pre-purchase inspection is closer to my house, but is not the same one doing the paint and bodywork on the car now.
Before I left I had the pre-purchase inspection done by a local Mercedes dealer the day after I bought the car, because Carmax refuses to let you get one. I suppose you could go take a car from carmax on a test drive and try to get it done, but Carmax's answer for everything is their 5 day return policy and 60 day warranty. The Mercedes dealer only found that the fuel door was loose and required replacement for about $400. I called Carmax and they insisted that they do the work which involves drilling out plastic rivets and getting inside the quarter panel. I wasn't comfortable with them doing that in their service area preferring to have an actual Mercedes shop do it.
Right before I was heading on my business trip, I went to get a clear bra installed. They called me shortly after I got back to work and said "you know the hood and bumper have been painted right? Poorly". No, I didn't know that and given that it was February and usually stupid cold outside, I hadn't spent a lot of time admiring the car in the garage to notice. Also when I picked the car up and did a walkaround (it was at night) I focused more on any obvious door dings and panel gaps. And I had my 8 year old daughter with me, so again, not the best time to really inspect a car.
I told them not to do the clear bra obviously, and I took the car to my guy Mike at the Mercedes Benz dealer body shop (Sears Imports) that did all the body and paintwork on my E12, and also repainted the front bumper on my Speed Yellow M3. Mike confirmed it had been repainted poorly with dirt in the clearcoat, thin paint, and it was very "dry" and not applied well. I also showed him the loose fuel door and he explained how it needed to be fixed confirming that I didn't think Carmax was up to the job. This was around Feb 14th.
I left for my India trip and the weeks went by. I scheduled an appointment with Carmax to confirm the paint issues, had to reschedule due to a big snowstorm here, and finally didn't get the car in until Monday March 12th. The Carmax service manager came right out and immediately confirmed the paint issues. He went on further to tell me Carmax had painted the hood and bumper! This was done at the Los Angeles Carmax that had the car originally. Of course none of this was disclosed to me when I bought it and I was pissed off to hear this. We went back and forth about Carmax's standards of quality. He wanted to buff it to get the dirt out of the clearcoat, and didn't think anything was wrong with the bumper to require a repaint. I said, why was it given a pass as meeting Carmax standards in LA, but now you're saying it doesn't meet standards? He wanted to buff the hood and then if that didn't improve the paint, then they would repaint it again. Why would I let them repaint it, when they were so inept the first time (I pointed out the overspray on the front headlight)? All I got back was quotes about policy and their 60 day warranty. I wanted to take it to the Mercedes bodyshop and have Carmax pay for it, but they refused. I left saying I was going to get the paint fixed on my dime but I was filing a complaint with their corporate.
I dropped the car off with Mike that same day, March 12th. I'm in a meeting the next day and Mike texts me and says he has bad news and can I call him. After I broke free and called him, he tells me someone mangled the front bumper and tried to cover it up with glue and staples so it was barely held together. Some of the ductwork behind the bumper into the heat exchangers and radiator was also bent up. When I asked if he thought it had been wrecked he said not from what he could see, but he thought someone did a real number on the front bumper parking on a curb and probably ripped it off when they reversed off the curb. The bumper was $1500 and is unique to the E63S wagon, and there was one in the US. I said go ahead with the work, I would try fighting carmax but otherwise I'd be stuck paying out of pocket.
I filed a complaint with carmax corporate who were very helpful and promised a quick resolution (24 hours). I had high hopes. Then the same Company-Policy-Touting service manager called me a few hours later, the same one that saw the paint the day before and wanted to buff it. Round and round again, only now we have a $1500 bumper on top of it. How could carmax have missed the bumper repair when they inspected the vehicle? How could they have painted the bumper and not seen all the damage? He was very careful with his responses, reading a script, but told me the bumper was painted on the car and they didn't repair it. But he said two things that were more troubling, 1) there was an approved procedure to repair front bumpers with glue and other materials if they didn't require full replacement according to Carmax's standards and 2) his service shop at the local Carmax paints 35 cars a week and has expertise to get the paint and body work done well. That struck me as very odd, 35 cars a week? Just how many other vehicles besides my wagon does Carmax paint and work on before selling, touting the clean carfax but not divulging to the customer that they painted it? I'm sure it happens a ton and Carmax is deceitful about it.
Last Thursday I started getting very sick from a bad cold I'd contracted after my trip (remember India in February)? I've been at home since then and confirmed with Monday's chest x-ray that I have pneumonia. I'm trying to rest, take my antibiotic, and avoid the hospital. The body shop got the first AMG bumper in last week and it was damaged in shipment. They received another one today and they are proceeding with the paint and reassembly, then on to the clear bra place.
In hindsight there are a lot of things I could have done better to inspect the car more closely vs trusting Carmax. Notice Doug Demuro doesn't talk about paint and bodywork when he does videos on the Carmax business model and extended warranty, and I was very focused on getting the extended warranty. The $3k or so it will cost me to fix this paint and front bumper mess isn't going to break me, this isn't a poor me saga. But I'd prefer not to have to spend the money had Carmax been up front or at least had been customer satisfaction focused when I raised the issues to their attention. I also placed faith in the pre-purchase inspection abilities of a dealership and it's the 2nd time this has let me down (also on my E46 wagon when I bought it). I have two calls into the Mercedes service department asking them to call me back and explain why they suck at inspecting cars and missed the front bumper damage, paintwork, and overspray. No calls back yet. By the way there are three local Mercedes dealers, and the one that did the pre-purchase inspection is closer to my house, but is not the same one doing the paint and bodywork on the car now.
03-21-2018, 12:58 PM
#3
Not quite teh same, but I did run into something similar.
I was looking for a 2015 Ford Mustang GT in Guards Green, with a 6MT. Only year they come in green.
One was at a carmax, and its price was suspiciously low ( like $27k ) but, I had a friend who worked at Carmax, so figured it was worth the while to check it out.
Walk up to the car and we both swear. It was painfully obvious that while it had a clean carfax, it had been in an accident. The rear drivers quarter panel all the way to up over the door had been resprayed, incredibly poorly, with trash in the paint. Door frame was buckled, and the drivers side seat screamed moving forward in position. Friend got the service people at that carmax location to look at it and they were all like " uh, where did you find this?" " On the lot" "... HOW IS IT ON THE LOT"
They took it off the lot at least and addressed issues, but I think because of that buckled door frame they couldn't sell it, so my friend got it and made it into a track car.
I was looking for a 2015 Ford Mustang GT in Guards Green, with a 6MT. Only year they come in green.
One was at a carmax, and its price was suspiciously low ( like $27k ) but, I had a friend who worked at Carmax, so figured it was worth the while to check it out.
Walk up to the car and we both swear. It was painfully obvious that while it had a clean carfax, it had been in an accident. The rear drivers quarter panel all the way to up over the door had been resprayed, incredibly poorly, with trash in the paint. Door frame was buckled, and the drivers side seat screamed moving forward in position. Friend got the service people at that carmax location to look at it and they were all like " uh, where did you find this?" " On the lot" "... HOW IS IT ON THE LOT"
They took it off the lot at least and addressed issues, but I think because of that buckled door frame they couldn't sell it, so my friend got it and made it into a track car.
03-21-2018, 01:53 PM
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Congrats
this is the risk of buying used as you know
this is the risk of buying used as you know
03-21-2018, 03:23 PM
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I think I always knew that dealers allowed for a certain amount of touch up usually confined to paintless dent repair, detailing, or fixing stone chips. It makes sense that dealers with their own captive body and paint shops would have more capability to do work to cars in their inventory, which would never be reported to carfax of course. With Carmax's "full service model" they are trying to position themselves as the end-to-end for their customers in the buying and ownership experience, but for their business model they are also trying to contain their inventory prepping costs under their roof and help to justify their no haggle price. Maybe they can do this satisfactorily on a Chevy Malibu, but should they be painting a Mercedes? For any car, it's a **** off that they don't disclose the extent of work they are doing to prep the car for sale.
03-21-2018, 04:47 PM
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
I think I always knew that dealers allowed for a certain amount of touch up usually confined to paintless dent repair, detailing, or fixing stone chips. It makes sense that dealers with their own captive body and paint shops would have more capability to do work to cars in their inventory, which would never be reported to carfax of course. With Carmax's "full service model" they are trying to position themselves as the end-to-end for their customers in the buying and ownership experience, but for their business model they are also trying to contain their inventory prepping costs under their roof and help to justify their no haggle price. Maybe they can do this satisfactorily on a Chevy Malibu, but should they be painting a Mercedes? For any car, it's a **** off that they don't disclose the extent of work they are doing to prep the car for sale.
03-21-2018, 06:01 PM
#7
Member
We got an undisclosed damage/OK painted (def not perfect) clean car fax CPO out of Boston. To their credit they did state "it has had some paint on the quarter panel" - we bought it anyway. My detail/clear bra shop pointed out much more paint work than just the qp. At first it really got under my skin, but over time - don't care anymore. Looks great from 10 feet. Long term car for us. And we love it. You will love yours too. Pressure's off to keep it "perfect" and we drive the @#$% out of it 
. Monster grocery getter, kids' school and sports taxi, road trip warrior, cup holders get a workout, all good. Welcome to the Wagon club!
Stop by these threads for sure:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...agon-come.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...formation.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...-ton-pics.html
. Monster grocery getter, kids' school and sports taxi, road trip warrior, cup holders get a workout, all good. Welcome to the Wagon club!Stop by these threads for sure:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...agon-come.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...formation.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...-ton-pics.html
Last edited by cemeek; 03-21-2018 at 06:14 PM.
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03-21-2018, 06:18 PM
#8
Super Member
That over spray on the headlight is a big wtf though.
03-21-2018, 06:35 PM
#9
Member
03-22-2018, 10:39 AM
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
Can clear bra go on a re-sprayed car? Years back the recommendation was only for factory cured paint. Have things or process changed?
03-22-2018, 10:56 AM
#11
Senior Member
30 days post re-spray is needed before film is applied. At least that was required for one of my cars and didn't have any issues afterwards.
03-22-2018, 11:52 AM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thanks but I assume the issue is with film removal - such as possible paint peeling off with film removal. Have you or anyone had film removed from re-sprayed paint?
03-22-2018, 12:12 PM
#13
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Clearly the car was not repaired at a Benz authorized collision shop; of if so they were not following standard repair protocols
sometimes people get repairs done on the cheap to keep collisions off the insurance and carfax record and preserve value in the car ... I think I heard that somewhere lol
sometimes people get repairs done on the cheap to keep collisions off the insurance and carfax record and preserve value in the car ... I think I heard that somewhere lol
03-22-2018, 12:19 PM
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hells yes we do LOL! I've done my own minor collision repair instead of go thru insurance. Emphasis on minor.
03-23-2018, 01:32 AM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
remember these guys are just a used car dealer with a fancy name and embroidered polo shirts....nothing more
always be weary of carfax too, i hydro locked my c320, freaking south florida flash floods,...fixed via insurance at my local indy shop and it never made it to carfax
always be weary of carfax too, i hydro locked my c320, freaking south florida flash floods,...fixed via insurance at my local indy shop and it never made it to carfax
03-23-2018, 08:56 AM
#16
Senior Member
I had my S6 wagon wrapped after a respray, there were some issues in areas that had bad / improper adhesion. So some paint will peel off. Best bet is to only wrap factory paint.
03-24-2018, 11:22 AM
#17
Super Member
To the OP - Most of us have been in your shoes whether we care to admit it or not. I’ve bought a couple of doozies over the years. They cost me more $ and sleepless nights than I care to admit. Thanks for reminding us what to watch for and ask about.
<><><><><><><>
Due diligence is critical to understanding what you’re getting. We talk about PPI being king, but a mindless PPI eval by an uninterested vendor isn’t worth much. I’ve learned that trusted vendors, partners and/or knowledgeable friends are the key to balancing my lack of impartiality when I’ve zeroed in on my next purchase and start day-dreaming about how great it’s going to be when I own it.
What I most worry about with used cars is the big stuff - has it been upside down in a ditch, lemon buy back, no service records, etc. This is the land of my financial nightmares. Then it’s a “price for condition” negotiation and budgeting some $ to get it to my mechanical / aesthetic standard. The likelihood that a used car is perfect is slim to none and if it is I couldn’t afford it. Perfect used cars just aren’t sold for a song. (Not implying the OP’s wagon is in this category.)
Last edited by Johnny Rad; 03-26-2018 at 11:25 PM.
03-20-2019, 10:56 AM
#18
Junior Member
Carfax is just another tool to use. it is not always correct or lack of details on damages. CarMax and other dealerships are the same, many repairs are NOT reported. you must do your own homeworks and inspections. make sure you wear some comfortable clothes that you do not mind getting dirty. open the hood and crawl under the vehicle for any repairs and damages. I had to pass on a 2015 E63 AMG few months back due to my inspection. maybe that was why that car was still offered for the last few months in California. CarMax finally sold it after at least four months in the lot in San Jose california.
03-20-2019, 12:57 PM
#19
Super Member
CarFax and AutoCheck are nothing more than a bargaining chip for the dealer and a vague and suggestive vehicle history. When buying used, if you yourself are not able to identify body work, always bring someone who is. I bought my wagon across the country, but I paid the local MB to go over it, after which i had the car sent to an elite body shop and paid an additional few hundred for them to go over the car. They lift it up and note every single blemish. I got a full report of the paint thickness on every panel, and they even noted things like marring in the lug nut holes and a scuff on the plastic underbody cover from someone probably stepping on it while doing an oil change. Obsessive? Maybe. But when the car arrived, there were no surprises at all. The $500 inspection was barely a drop in the bucket for the overall price of the car.
Not to say that this very same car is not giving me headaches right now, haha. Ugh... I wish i was into video games, or gardening... you know, something a little simpler.
Not to say that this very same car is not giving me headaches right now, haha. Ugh... I wish i was into video games, or gardening... you know, something a little simpler.
03-20-2019, 09:14 PM
#20
I bought my 997 Carrera S at Carmax 4 years ago. The side mirrors and front bumper had been repainted, but I was actually really impressed with the quality of it! Even when I asked the Carmax rep if it had been repainted he said no, but I just chalked that up to him having no idea rather than an evil Carmax plot.
Used cars often have very chipped front bumpers, and a quick respray can make a car look a lot better! I don't blame Carmax for doing it.
I saw another 997 at the same Carmax that had been repainted on the LR quarter panel and it looked AWFUL...just tons of orange peel and an almost matte finish. As previous posters have said....ITS A USED CAR LOT...dont expect much more.
FWIW, my experience with the Carmax warranty was also great...never had an issue taking it straight to the porsche dealer for any work needed.
Used cars often have very chipped front bumpers, and a quick respray can make a car look a lot better! I don't blame Carmax for doing it.
I saw another 997 at the same Carmax that had been repainted on the LR quarter panel and it looked AWFUL...just tons of orange peel and an almost matte finish. As previous posters have said....ITS A USED CAR LOT...dont expect much more.
FWIW, my experience with the Carmax warranty was also great...never had an issue taking it straight to the porsche dealer for any work needed.
03-21-2019, 05:01 PM
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
Besides knowing someone else took the mega depreciation hit, the other thing I love about buying a car used is not having to be stressed about being the first person to lead to it being imperfect.
Look at it this way, can't bring it when the time is up on this rock, so no point stressing about it. As long as the valuation is correct for its condition, then it's cool with me. Hopefully it will all get taken care of quickly so you can enjoy it.
Look at it this way, can't bring it when the time is up on this rock, so no point stressing about it. As long as the valuation is correct for its condition, then it's cool with me. Hopefully it will all get taken care of quickly so you can enjoy it.
