Turbo Back Downpipe Install
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 336
Likes: 100
From: Chicago
M3, E55, cls63
Turbo Back Downpipe Install
Hey guys I just got my boost logic down pipes in and was getting ready to have them installed is there any gaskets or things I should have replaced while doing this? Is there a gasket between the bridge pipe and turbo if so do you guys have a part number?
Thanks
Thanks
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 336
Likes: 100
From: Chicago
M3, E55, cls63
Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 218
Likes: 72
From: New York, NY
2018 E63S AMG
Trending Topics
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 450
Likes: 98
2014 E63 AMG wagon
You don't have to drop the engine for "downpipes" on AWD cars.... However you do need to drop the motor for a "bridge pipe" .
There's a short section that comes out of the turbo and turns down by the transmission, the "downpipes" couple up after that on a awd.
Not sure if there is a ton to gain, if the motors out just do turbos!
There's a short section that comes out of the turbo and turns down by the transmission, the "downpipes" couple up after that on a awd.
Not sure if there is a ton to gain, if the motors out just do turbos!
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 497
Likes: 416
From: NYC
AMG
You don't have to drop the engine for "downpipes" on AWD cars.... However you do need to drop the motor for a "bridge pipe" .
There's a short section that comes out of the turbo and turns down by the transmission, the "downpipes" couple up after that on a awd.
Not sure if there is a ton to gain, if the motors out just do turbos!
There's a short section that comes out of the turbo and turns down by the transmission, the "downpipes" couple up after that on a awd.
Not sure if there is a ton to gain, if the motors out just do turbos!
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 369
Likes: 61
CLS63, S55
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 769
Likes: 631
From: Long Island ny
2007 e350 sport. 2010 350 4matic sport. Worlds first W212 E63R self built.
I’m srry but this is 100% incorrect. I had a dyno done with a stage 1 ec tune. Then gutted my cats dynoed about a week after hitting my cats at picked up almost 23 hp 26tq. Then I got a retune for stage 2. Your egt is lower, your spoil up times is faster. Which me power builds quicker even if it’s only 200rpm quicker
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 497
Likes: 416
From: NYC
AMG
I’m srry but this is 100% incorrect. I had a dyno done with a stage 1 ec tune. Then gutted my cats dynoed about a week after hitting my cats at picked up almost 23 hp 26tq. Then I got a retune for stage 2. Your egt is lower, your spoil up times is faster. Which me power builds quicker even if it’s only 200rpm quicker
That bolt to the turbos and to the cat pipes.
These pipes have no restriction, dont change sound, and yield no power gains. As much as some of these companies may try to make you believe. .
Removing the cats.. ill leave that for another discussion... psi for psi if you raced a similar car, i think you may be VERY surprised by the results. Cat flow technology of todays cars has gotten extremely good compared to many myths of years ago.
good article:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24603457
Last edited by 5soko; Jun 28, 2019 at 09:24 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 450
Likes: 98
2014 E63 AMG wagon
I’m srry but this is 100% incorrect. I had a dyno done with a stage 1 ec tune. Then gutted my cats dynoed about a week after hitting my cats at picked up almost 23 hp 26tq. Then I got a retune for stage 2. Your egt is lower, your spoil up times is faster. Which me power builds quicker even if it’s only 200rpm quicker
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 769
Likes: 631
From: Long Island ny
2007 e350 sport. 2010 350 4matic sport. Worlds first W212 E63R self built.
I was specifically speaking on the “bridge pipes” that was mentioned by savage.
That bolt to the turbos and to the cat pipes.
These pipes have no restriction, dont change sound, and yield no power gains. As much as some of these companies may try to make you believe. .
Removing the cats.. ill leave that for another discussion... psi for psi if you raced a similar car, i think you may be VERY surprised by the results. Cat flow technology of todays cars has gotten extremely good compared to many myths of years ago.
good article:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24603457
That bolt to the turbos and to the cat pipes.
These pipes have no restriction, dont change sound, and yield no power gains. As much as some of these companies may try to make you believe. .
Removing the cats.. ill leave that for another discussion... psi for psi if you raced a similar car, i think you may be VERY surprised by the results. Cat flow technology of todays cars has gotten extremely good compared to many myths of years ago.
good article:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24603457
Srry thought you meant cat less down pipes. Also I’m not into articles. I can find an article that says removing cats shows gains. I’m just speaking from my personal real world experience. And also you can’t compare 2 cars with the exact same mod. They can act entirely different not all cars are identical even the same year make model with matching mod and matching miles. When you remove cats you are creating efficiency , removing heat faster, removing unwanted back pressure. As I agree some back pressure is needed to create a form of exhaust scavenging, but that’s mainly for NA motors where scavenging has a greater affect. I have had many cars. Mod my own vehicles from piston to gearing and diff, except tuning. Also I dyno after every mod on the same dyno same temp within a week from each other . I promise if I lost power removing my cats I would have re installed them without hesitation . Search my post, the last thing I would want to do is miss lead any of my fellow enthusiasts. Maybe Jon doe removed his cats and lost power I’m sure it may happen. But the ratio for gain to loss on much higher then loss to gain on removing cats. Just like everyone who keeps dumping tons of meth with huge nozzles right before the intercooler to show minimal gains. While I mist meth pre turbo with great gain without tuning
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 497
Likes: 416
From: NYC
AMG
Srry thought you meant cat less down pipes. Also I’m not into articles. I can find an article that says removing cats shows gains. I’m just speaking from my personal real world experience. And also you can’t compare 2 cars with the exact same mod. They can act entirely different not all cars are identical even the same year make model with matching mod and matching miles. When you remove cats you are creating efficiency , removing heat faster, removing unwanted back pressure. As I agree some back pressure is needed to create a form of exhaust scavenging, but that’s mainly for NA motors where scavenging has a greater affect. I have had many cars. Mod my own vehicles from piston to gearing and diff, except tuning. Also I dyno after every mod on the same dyno same temp within a week from each other . I promise if I lost power removing my cats I would have re installed them without hesitation . Search my post, the last thing I would want to do is miss lead any of my fellow enthusiasts. Maybe Jon doe removed his cats and lost power I’m sure it may happen. But the ratio for gain to loss on much higher then loss to gain on removing cats. Just like everyone who keeps dumping tons of meth with huge nozzles right before the intercooler to show minimal gains. While I mist meth pre turbo with great gain without tuning
And by all means i encourage all members to enjoy their cars and mods, that is what we are all here for right.
but i have seen numerous times a diff outcome in real world runs( cat vs catless, then catless vs catless, same cars) backing many of these claims today how well these new cats flow. Just sharing my experience. You can DM me, maybe we can even meet in person and try it out
and talk more about this.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 450
Likes: 98
2014 E63 AMG wagon
I believe all your efforts have been strong and effective, im sure of it..
And by all means i encourage all members to enjoy their cars and mods, that is what we are all here for right.
but i have seen numerous times a diff outcome in real world runs( cat vs catless, then catless vs catless, same cars) backing many of these claims today how well these new cats flow. Just sharing my experience. You can DM me, maybe we can even meet in person and try it out and talk more about this.
And by all means i encourage all members to enjoy their cars and mods, that is what we are all here for right.
but i have seen numerous times a diff outcome in real world runs( cat vs catless, then catless vs catless, same cars) backing many of these claims today how well these new cats flow. Just sharing my experience. You can DM me, maybe we can even meet in person and try it out
and talk more about this.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 450
Likes: 98
2014 E63 AMG wagon
After reading the article cited here, there are some points of debate. Copied from other Post
" Some facts- Mclaren catbypass pipes will give you a Check Engine light P420/P430 code on these cars. Often you can use simulators to keep the light off BUT its not guaranteed. The car runs 100% fine but you get a small light on the dash. Simulators give you a 50% chance of eliminating a CEL light.
Fabspeed Motorsport has awesome record setting safe tunes for all these McLaren cars for stock, with highflow cats and also No Cats RACE system with no CEL Lights 100% guaranteed. All of our tunes are set up safely for 92 to 93 octane pump fuel.
Point of interest- in virtually all of our testing super highflow German imported Extra large diameter HJS 200 cell Catalytic converters make more absolute power and torque all across the RPM band than catbypass pipes. The HJS Catalytic converters FLOW 93% of a straight pipe and the cars don't go into overboost/ spike and the ECU doesn't try to trim and pull everything back as what happens when you install a catbypass pipes.
Fabspeed Motorsport has tunes for all catted or no cat Mclaren cars. Whats interesting is that the power increase/ difference in ONLY +5HP by going tuned and catless. In our years of back to back dyno testing since 2010 with these cars catbypass pipes/competition pipes and with a tune you get only an additional +5HP more than a Mclaren with HJS German sport race cats with a tune on "same day same weather". "
First, if you do not tune for catless, I'd agree zero or negative gains. Second, what Mclaren owner would do some dumb *** 02 sims? That is a lame way to "correct" the oxygen sensors, any respectable tuner can fix this in the tune. No simulators necessary. After all that it goes on to say there is in fact a gain... however minimal.
" Some facts- Mclaren catbypass pipes will give you a Check Engine light P420/P430 code on these cars. Often you can use simulators to keep the light off BUT its not guaranteed. The car runs 100% fine but you get a small light on the dash. Simulators give you a 50% chance of eliminating a CEL light.
Fabspeed Motorsport has awesome record setting safe tunes for all these McLaren cars for stock, with highflow cats and also No Cats RACE system with no CEL Lights 100% guaranteed. All of our tunes are set up safely for 92 to 93 octane pump fuel.
Point of interest- in virtually all of our testing super highflow German imported Extra large diameter HJS 200 cell Catalytic converters make more absolute power and torque all across the RPM band than catbypass pipes. The HJS Catalytic converters FLOW 93% of a straight pipe and the cars don't go into overboost/ spike and the ECU doesn't try to trim and pull everything back as what happens when you install a catbypass pipes.
Fabspeed Motorsport has tunes for all catted or no cat Mclaren cars. Whats interesting is that the power increase/ difference in ONLY +5HP by going tuned and catless. In our years of back to back dyno testing since 2010 with these cars catbypass pipes/competition pipes and with a tune you get only an additional +5HP more than a Mclaren with HJS German sport race cats with a tune on "same day same weather". "
First, if you do not tune for catless, I'd agree zero or negative gains. Second, what Mclaren owner would do some dumb *** 02 sims? That is a lame way to "correct" the oxygen sensors, any respectable tuner can fix this in the tune. No simulators necessary. After all that it goes on to say there is in fact a gain... however minimal.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 769
Likes: 631
From: Long Island ny
2007 e350 sport. 2010 350 4matic sport. Worlds first W212 E63R self built.
After reading the article cited here, there are some points of debate. Copied from other Post
" Some facts- Mclaren catbypass pipes will give you a Check Engine light P420/P430 code on these cars. Often you can use simulators to keep the light off BUT its not guaranteed. The car runs 100% fine but you get a small light on the dash. Simulators give you a 50% chance of eliminating a CEL light.
Fabspeed Motorsport has awesome record setting safe tunes for all these McLaren cars for stock, with highflow cats and also No Cats RACE system with no CEL Lights 100% guaranteed. All of our tunes are set up safely for 92 to 93 octane pump fuel.
Point of interest- in virtually all of our testing super highflow German imported Extra large diameter HJS 200 cell Catalytic converters make more absolute power and torque all across the RPM band than catbypass pipes. The HJS Catalytic converters FLOW 93% of a straight pipe and the cars don't go into overboost/ spike and the ECU doesn't try to trim and pull everything back as what happens when you install a catbypass pipes.
Fabspeed Motorsport has tunes for all catted or no cat Mclaren cars. Whats interesting is that the power increase/ difference in ONLY +5HP by going tuned and catless. In our years of back to back dyno testing since 2010 with these cars catbypass pipes/competition pipes and with a tune you get only an additional +5HP more than a Mclaren with HJS German sport race cats with a tune on "same day same weather". "
First, if you do not tune for catless, I'd agree zero or negative gains. Second, what Mclaren owner would do some dumb *** 02 sims? That is a lame way to "correct" the oxygen sensors, any respectable tuner can fix this in the tune. No simulators necessary. After all that it goes on to say there is in fact a gain... however minimal.
" Some facts- Mclaren catbypass pipes will give you a Check Engine light P420/P430 code on these cars. Often you can use simulators to keep the light off BUT its not guaranteed. The car runs 100% fine but you get a small light on the dash. Simulators give you a 50% chance of eliminating a CEL light.
Fabspeed Motorsport has awesome record setting safe tunes for all these McLaren cars for stock, with highflow cats and also No Cats RACE system with no CEL Lights 100% guaranteed. All of our tunes are set up safely for 92 to 93 octane pump fuel.
Point of interest- in virtually all of our testing super highflow German imported Extra large diameter HJS 200 cell Catalytic converters make more absolute power and torque all across the RPM band than catbypass pipes. The HJS Catalytic converters FLOW 93% of a straight pipe and the cars don't go into overboost/ spike and the ECU doesn't try to trim and pull everything back as what happens when you install a catbypass pipes.
Fabspeed Motorsport has tunes for all catted or no cat Mclaren cars. Whats interesting is that the power increase/ difference in ONLY +5HP by going tuned and catless. In our years of back to back dyno testing since 2010 with these cars catbypass pipes/competition pipes and with a tune you get only an additional +5HP more than a Mclaren with HJS German sport race cats with a tune on "same day same weather". "
First, if you do not tune for catless, I'd agree zero or negative gains. Second, what Mclaren owner would do some dumb *** 02 sims? That is a lame way to "correct" the oxygen sensors, any respectable tuner can fix this in the tune. No simulators necessary. After all that it goes on to say there is in fact a gain... however minimal.
Keep in mind we do not have 200 cell high flow cats as a stock option . Inside our cats there is 2 speperated cells one at the very beginning and small half inch space and another. And that’s per side . So a total of 4 cells. Now I’m assuming we are not talking high flow 200 cell cats because they do flow extremely well. And my statement is based on standard flow cats which is what we have
Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 148
Likes: 34
From: Los Angeles/Vegas
2004 E55 AMG
I was specifically speaking on the “bridge pipes” that was mentioned by savage.
That bolt to the turbos and to the cat pipes.
These pipes have no restriction, dont change sound, and yield no power gains. As much as some of these companies may try to make you believe. .
Removing the cats.. ill leave that for another discussion... psi for psi if you raced a similar car, i think you may be VERY surprised by the results. Cat flow technology of todays cars has gotten extremely good compared to many myths of years ago.
good article:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24603457
That bolt to the turbos and to the cat pipes.
These pipes have no restriction, dont change sound, and yield no power gains. As much as some of these companies may try to make you believe. .
Removing the cats.. ill leave that for another discussion... psi for psi if you raced a similar car, i think you may be VERY surprised by the results. Cat flow technology of todays cars has gotten extremely good compared to many myths of years ago.
good article:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24603457
CLS63s: Weistec turbo backs
E63s: kept the factory bridge pipes and had MBH catless down pipes
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 497
Likes: 416
From: NYC
AMG
You're incorrect. There are power gains. How do I know? We actually tested it in person. Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s9SrZuwi6s
CLS63s: Weistec turbo backs
E63s: kept the factory bridge pipes and had MBH catless down pipes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s9SrZuwi6s
CLS63s: Weistec turbo backs
E63s: kept the factory bridge pipes and had MBH catless down pipes
Those bus length difference looks like a 100hp gain tbh....
I did not witness this result in person in my experience.
Might wanna check to make sure that one car is actually tuned,
since your saying a catless bridge pipe with a different bend picked up bus lengths when compared to the oem catless bridge pipe. Lol
Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 148
Likes: 34
From: Los Angeles/Vegas
2004 E55 AMG
Glad you had a different experience and tested it but,
Those bus length difference looks like a 100hp gain tbh....
I did not witness this result in person in my experience.
Might wanna check to make sure that one car is actually tuned,
since your saying a catless bridge pipe with a different bend picked up bus lengths when compared to the oem catless bridge pipe. Lol
Those bus length difference looks like a 100hp gain tbh....
I did not witness this result in person in my experience.
Might wanna check to make sure that one car is actually tuned,
since your saying a catless bridge pipe with a different bend picked up bus lengths when compared to the oem catless bridge pipe. Lol
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 497
Likes: 416
From: NYC
AMG
That video is more of a tune vs NON tune video by the huge gap that was put on so quickly. The gap in that race is massive amount of WHP difference.
The oem bridge pipes are actually hydroformed which flow actually very well with no restriction. The oem bridge pipe width is offset by their height, volume is still there in flow because of this. Not sure where this major restriction is coming from to gain so much power, and free so much up you were able to have cooler IAT's? Interesting.
Different experiences i guess. Glad it worked out for you.
Last edited by 5soko; Jul 1, 2019 at 09:20 PM.
Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 148
Likes: 34
From: Los Angeles/Vegas
2004 E55 AMG
Not sure if you are associated with the tuner or maybe someone was not clear in one of the races with their mods but NO aftermarket bridge pipes will gain that much power and lengths as shown in the video, i am sorry.
That video is more of a tune vs NON tune video by the huge gap that was put on so quickly. The gap in that race is massive amount of WHP difference.
The oem bridge pipes are actually hydroformed which flow actually very well with no restriction. The oem bridge pipe width is offset by their height, volume is still there in flow because of this. Not sure where this major restriction is coming from to gain so much power, and free so much up you were able to have cooler IAT's? Interesting.
Different experiences i guess. Glad it worked out for you.
That video is more of a tune vs NON tune video by the huge gap that was put on so quickly. The gap in that race is massive amount of WHP difference.
The oem bridge pipes are actually hydroformed which flow actually very well with no restriction. The oem bridge pipe width is offset by their height, volume is still there in flow because of this. Not sure where this major restriction is coming from to gain so much power, and free so much up you were able to have cooler IAT's? Interesting.
Different experiences i guess. Glad it worked out for you.
Now my friend that owns the CLS63s didn’t care what it takes he just wanted the most gains. He started with a stage 1 tune as well. Went to the track and had a similar time as the E63s except he had a better 60ft and got 11.7 at 119mph but the DA was higher at 5000. After that we went with the Weistec turbo backs and the stage 2 tune on 91 pump gas. Both with the same amount of timing and boost. Both are tuned by Anthony Lawshee aka Tony from Race IQ Performance. I saw them both get flashed at our local Race IQ dealer called Silver Arrows Motors in Las Vegas.
This is what we experienced out here with these mods.
Here’s both them in front of the shop.
Oem motor mount on the left Weistec billet engine mounts to fit the turbo backs
Stock vs turbo back
Last edited by Das_it16; Jul 2, 2019 at 01:13 PM.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
Likes: 93
From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
I think the "bridge pipe" makes some power. However it also comes in at a higher price. Our downpipes are at the $1500-1700 price point pending sales discounts. We could very easily make a "bridge pipe" But that would include machining cost , and more build labor. Inturn making our downpipes cost more. We wanted to keep this simple, Our downpipes only take 20 minutes to install and if you want to reinstall your OEM system that only take about 20 min as well. This will save a person many hours of install time ($$$) Weistec makes nice stuff, but we believe we doo as well. Our construction is 16 gauge 304 stainless, Id imagine the same as our friends over at Weistec use. We just dont to the bridge pipe, but if someone wanted it we would make it for them.
To be fair, that weistec engine with the red pipe from weistec is the there water methanol injection setup. That on a car is worth a bunch of power.
To be fair, that weistec engine with the red pipe from weistec is the there water methanol injection setup. That on a car is worth a bunch of power.
