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Not sure why all my verbiage in the above post did not show up. Here is what I should have been above:
Hey Guys,
There have been a few threads debating the 4S 295's on the rear versus the stock size 285. Well as I mentioned in one of those threads the extra 5mm/wall over such a low profile would only be about a 5degree change and should be difficult to even notice the difference. So last Friday I finally had them installed after getting Eva back (with her new engine, rear body and paint work, and front end re-finish).
The ride quality feels outstanding! I can't really speak yet to performance as I am currently breaking in the new motor and not pushing her. We have had a bit of rain and they perform as well or better than any other Michelin tire in the wet. VERY good.
So here are some pics of the rears to prove the speculation by some folks that they would look ballooned is incorrect. They look better in person than in the pics actually, and the pics look pretty good in the pictures.
So any of you that want to go toward the high end on tires with the PS4S's need not worry about substituting the 295's for the 285's.
Those last 3 pics tho, you can see the balloon like effect of the tire being too wide for the rim (which it is) as the michelin logo is sloping.
Well, here's the thing though: I looked at a pic of my old 285's in a very close to the same perspective, and the profile looks very nearly the same as it does above. The 285's were P-Zero's, so the logo can't be compared. But the wall slope can. I will try to find the pic and throw it up here. Then you can compare fairly.
So here is a pic with similar perspective of the 285's. Look toward the upper part of the tire and at the slope of the wall relative to the rim edge. It is also sloping. Granted not quite as much. But it is such a slight difference that most guys really wouldn't worry about. Guys here that have seen them in person don't think they look off one bit btw either.
It's 5 mm per side. Unless you have rubbing, you are good to go.
The difference related to the construction of the sidewall etc will be bigger than that difference.
It's good news though since it means we can use the new tire.
It's 5 mm per side. Unless you have rubbing, you are good to go.
The difference related to the construction of the sidewall etc will be bigger than that difference.
It's good news though since it means we can use the new tire.
C,
5mm. Exactly! As I said with the wall height it translates to a 5 degree change in slope. Simple math (well, basic trigonometry).
Rather than more nay sayers debating as to why they don't like it, my advice is just don't do it on your car.
As I said, the ride quality is outstanding and in person, no one is going to think they look wrong. In fact quite the opposite.
A 295 on a 9.5 is less wheel than optimal (295's really want an 11 or 11.5 to be "perfect") but it's still more tire on a car that's begging for more tire and has limited wheel options...and you get to use the PS4S which is the best all-round performance street tire ever developed by humankind, soooo worth a little suboptimalness IMO. Plus you get some more rim protection!
I use the same tire square in 275/30-19 on 9.5's on my E90M and it's just a phenomenal tire. There's barely any rim protection which is nerve wracking parallel parking
A 295 on a 9.5 is less wheel than optimal (295's really want an 11 or 11.5 to be "perfect") but it's still more tire on a car that's begging for more tire and has limited wheel options...and you get to use the PS4S which is the best all-round performance street tire ever developed by humankind, soooo worth a little suboptimalness IMO. Plus you get some more rim protection!
I use the same tire square in 275/30-19 on 9.5's on my E90M and it's just a phenomenal tire. There's barely any rim protection which is nerve wracking parallel parking
Agree with everything you said. I was actually going to mention the added rim protection myself, but you beat me to it.
Vrodman- rear tires really look good in the 295/30 19!
I guess I'll go with the PSS4 in 295/30 19 also when its time to change. Did you use the stock size 255/35 19 up front, or did you use 265/35 19?
Stock size in front. They are pretty monstrous already!
Cool. Your car looks great!
Hopefully, America's Tire won't have an issue with a different than stock size in the rear when I'm ready to make the change.
Haha. America's tire installed these. The only thing they said was "so you're going with a bit more rubber in the rear?" I said "yep" They said "cool"
There is a reason besides the bulge look that a tire too big for its rim is not recommended.
The side wall corning load and side wall flex will be negatively impacted.
I have even heard of people popping a bead when taking a turn too hard on a tire that is too big.
There is many negatives to going with a tire that is too wide for the rim, but of course you have to weigh that with the option of wanting the newest michelin vs an incorrect tire size on the car.
There is a reason besides the bulge look that a tire too big for its rim is not recommended.
The side wall corning load and side wall flex will be negatively impacted.
I have even heard of people popping a bead when taking a turn too hard on a tire that is too big.
There is many negatives to going with a tire that is too wide for the rim, but of course you have to weigh that with the option of wanting the newest michelin vs an incorrect tire size on the car.
Please see post somewhere above that stated if you don't like the idea, don't put them on your car. Really as simple as that. And yes, we are all already aware of the points you made. And yet many before me have done the same thing without any reported issues. I didn't invent this altered solution. I went off of reputable guys on this site's input that have done it. Again, we are talking about a 5mm per side wall change over a wall height of ~2inches. This, from your HS trigonometry, calculates to a 5.7 degree wall slope change at most. Your arguments would hold more validity with 10mm, or more, per sidewall change.
Just don't put them on your car my friend if you object to the idea. No worries.
Please see post somewhere above that stated if you don't like the idea, don't put them on your car. Really as simple as that. And yes, we are all already aware of the points you made. And yet many before me have done the same thing without any reported issues. I didn't invent this altered solution. I went off of reputable guys on this site's input that have done it. Again, we are talking about a 5mm per side wall change over a wall height of ~2inches. This, from your HS trigonometry, calculates to a 5.7 degree wall slope change at most. Your arguments would hold more validity with 10mm, or more, per sidewall change.
Just don't put them on your car my friend if you object to the idea. No worries.
I don't believe my post was off topic, no need to be defensive.
I think as a community, anyone reading this and wants to do the same knows the negatives to doing this, 5mm or not, there is a downside.
If you were sensitive to these changes, you would feel it aswell. 5mm on a 4500lb+ leaning aggressively on a turn will add up quick sir.
You are not the firs to do this in the history of cars and you wont be the last. But like i said this is NOT recommend and i think that should be pointed out here as factual information to anyone weighing their options in doing this. Sharing information is what this forum is about
I don't believe my post was off topic, no need to be defensive.
I think as a community, anyone reading this and wants to do the same knows the negatives to doing this, 5mm or not, there is a downside.
If you were sensitive to these changes, you would feel it aswell. 5mm on a 4500lb+ leaning aggressively on a turn will add up quick sir.
You are not the firs to do this in the history of cars and you wont be the last. But like i said this is NOT recommend and i think that should be pointed out here as factual information to anyone weighing their options in doing this. Sharing information is what this forum is about
Sure. Fine. You win. Of course I am assuming that you have actually tried a 295 instead of a 285 on your car and have expierenced some type of performance degredation on your 4500 pound car rather than making an argument based on speculation or conjecture.
FYI, as a very seasoned mechanical engineer, I never get defensive over applied science matters. We look at things like emperical test data (actual objective real world testing), free body diagrams, material properties, system architectures, etc. So after I read that guys were having positive results with the ONE size wider tires, I performed some of the math, and physics to to determine if an appreciable degredation in performance was a risk. And yes, 4500 pounds was in that consideration.
I hadnt originally intended to get this deep on this in this thread, but you kind of forced my hand. I believe you may have confused me with an anectodal blogger that offers opinions with nothing behind it. I can assure you this is not the case. Many on this forum can speak to that.
As I said, if you dont like the idea then dont do it. But, in the interest of positevely helping others out on the site with info, that you mentioned, I would ask that you don’t scare off others with your speculation or opinions. Most will see that this is a perfectly fine alternative to the 285’s when considering the value add of the PS4s’s. I never stated that it was a perfect replacement without compromise. In engineering, our whole science is comprimise. We take theoretically perfect designs from phycisists that cant be made cost effectively, and comprimise the design to make it such. We give up small gains in the interest of achieving large ones, financial or otherwise.
If you need to reply so be it. You can have the last word. I have said all I have to say on this thread.
I'm haunting you because you used a tire on a wheel half an inch narrower than its recommended rim width I am the ghost of slavish adherence to tire spec spreadsheets woooooooooooooo scary ghost
one time I used a 315/30-18 on a 9.5" wheeeeeelll onnn a raaaaaacetraaaaaaack blahwooooooooooooarrrrrrrrrr
i once plugged a tire that could not be plugged according to the manufacturerrrrrrrrrrrr and drove on it for a whiiiiiiillllleeeee *chain rattling noises*
i drove on summer tires below 20 degreeeeeeeeeeeeeeessss
all of those things caused me to dieeee and and as penance I haunt the living to save them from the same faaaaaate
wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo spoooky you're haunted until you put the ****tastic 5P's back on the car and sacrifice your michelins to me (I'll pay shipping)
Sure. Fine. You win. Of course I am assuming that you have actually tried a 295 instead of a 285 on your car and have expierenced some type of performance degredation on your 4500 pound car rather than making an argument based on speculation or conjecture.
FYI, as a very seasoned mechanical engineer, I never get defensive over applied science matters. We look at things like emperical test data (actual objective real world testing), free body diagrams, material properties, system architectures, etc. So after I read that guys were having positive results with the ONE size wider tires, I performed some of the math, and physics to to determine if an appreciable degredation in performance was a risk. And yes, 4500 pounds was in that consideration.
I hadnt originally intended to get this deep on this in this thread, but you kind of forced my hand. I believe you may have confused me with an anectodal blogger that offers opinions with nothing behind it. I can assure you this is not the case. Many on this forum can speak to that.
As I said, if you dont like the idea then dont do it. But, in the interest of positevely helping others out on the site with info, that you mentioned, I would ask that you don’t scare off others with your speculation or opinions. Most will see that this is a perfectly fine alternative to the 285’s when considering the value add of the PS4s’s. I never stated that it was a perfect replacement without compromise. In engineering, our whole science is comprimise. We take theoretically perfect designs from phycisists that cant be made cost effectively, and comprimise the design to make it such. We give up small gains in the interest of achieving large ones, financial or otherwise.
If you need to reply so be it. You can have the last word. I have said all I have to say on this thread.
It not about winning, we are having a conversation, this is a forum, that is what we do, talk about things for our cars and share knowledge. Not sure why the attitude im reading off your post, i may be mistaken.
I have try a size bigger on multiple cars of mine until i learned my lesson when i was younger. Any track instructor in the country will tear at the thought of having a bigger tire than the rim can support. If you are sensitive enough to your car, you can feel the transitions as i did when i went to a bigger size then supported. Most instructors and racing techs will actually tell you to even downsize in certain situations.
What i am saying is not speculation, a quick good search will tell you this. It is FACT that this tire size is not recommend. I wouldn't be telling our forum members otherwise sir.
I have seen you mention multiple times on this forum about your background once you are challenged on a post. I see this is a trend. But i honestly would love to talk about this more then skip it if that is okay, it could be helpful to future owners on weighing their options.
If a member drives his car aggressive i would stick to the oem sizes, if you want the look and grip go with a size bigger.
It not about winning, we are having a conversation, this is a forum, that is what we do, talk about things for our cars and share knowledge. Not sure why the attitude im reading off your post, i may be mistaken.
I have try a size bigger on multiple cars of mine until i learned my lesson when i was younger. Any track instructor in the country will tear at the thought of having a bigger tire than the rim can support. If you are sensitive enough to your car, you can feel the transitions as i did when i went to a bigger size then supported. Most instructors and racing techs will actually tell you to even downsize in certain situations.
What i am saying is not speculation, a quick good search will tell you this. It is FACT that this tire size is not recommend. I wouldn't be telling our forum members otherwise sir.
I have seen you mention multiple times on this forum about your background once you are challenged on a post. I see this is a trend. But i honestly would love to talk about this more then skip it if that is okay, it could be helpful to future owners on weighing their options.
If a member drives his car aggressive i would stick to the oem sizes, if you want the look and grip go with a size bigger.
OK,
I said I was done here. But I will post this last one on this thread.
First, I dont track my car. So I will concede that there could indeed be something lost in sidewall stability under hard load while tracking. If someone is to track there car in a competitive manner where every 0.1 second matters, it may not be the right solution. But, remember, I did say that there was a compromise involved with doing this and that it was not the perfect solution. What I am trying to get through to you here is that comprimise is not black or white. There are shades of grey that need to be weighed against all other criteria and then a decision made for the individual if it is an overall good decision for them. If the individual is tracking there car and pushing it to its limits, then I would not recommend it. On the other hand, if you are a daily spirited street driver, that that is after the best performance wet and dry, it is a good choice.
As far as my background, I only mention it when I sense it is relevant and that the other party is a newbie that mistakes me for an uninformed blogger. I believe you must have read my “new engine” post where it was also mentioned. I honestly dont recall mentioning more than 3 or 4 times out of nearly 1000 posts on this site. Others that know me through PM’s have mentioned my background on my behalf. Perhaps you are considering this.
If what I have tried to explain to you here sir is still not resonating with you, I don’t know what else to say to you. hopefully it does and we can move on.
Really, honestly, you may have taken what I wrote as defensive or having attitude, but I promise you I was not feeling that when I wrote it. You may have heard that we engineers (oops, there I go again) have a communication style that not everybody appreciates! 😂
ive worn 295 rear for 43000 of the 60000 miles ive had the car...30000 were on PSS and 13 so on ps4s after the initial Pirellis were gone
i have never had an issue with the 295, none, zero...is its a little chubby, does it have muffin top, yeah sure....ive run 1/2 runway raceswith excellent traction, and have had no issues...
ive worn 295 rear for 43000 of the 60000 miles ive had the car...30000 were on PSS and 13 so on ps4s after the initial Pirellis were gone
i have never had an issue with the 295, none, zero...is its a little chubby, does it have muffin top, yeah sure....ive run 1/2 runway raceswith excellent traction, and have had no issues...
11-26-2018, 06:11 PM
