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Sebastian, you're saying that EC said the E85 tune is fine with a stock car and none of the mods that chiromikey suggested aren't necessary? Do let us know how the E85 tune on a stock car goes, as I'm definitely interested.
Originally Posted by Sebastian Bird
Yes exactly, I've got the handheld I've sent them.my car software just waiting for the tune back now to put on the car. I'll keep everyone posted.
I'm confused as well. My stage 1 tune doesn't rely on additional hardware to make power safely, but I am restricted to E50 concentrations with my cars fuel delivery system as it stands. This may be specific to my car only and only a vehicle specific limitation.
The stage 2 tune I noted above relied on an upgraded Fuel Pump to make the numbers safely. Those numbers were from Jerry's development car.
I haven't spoken with Jerry in some time, but are they saying you can run straight E85 now without any additional hardware modes to make that power? If so, this must be a recent advancement. I'm really curious to see results.
Are you able to log fuel rail pressure and STFT's when out and about? I'd hate to see you damage your engine due to an oversight on someones part.
Sorry if this is off topic but if you have a stock car, run E85 and a tune (with the supporting fuel upgrade) and make 700whp, how come you won't blow your cats but I've been told on a NA M156 E63, if you supercharge it, the highest safe power on stock cats and exhaust is ~600whp? .....
Whats the max boost via supercharger you need to attain 600whp? My apologies as i don't know.
I'm thinking the answer may lie in the max required boost needed (17/18psi) and the reduction in EGT's as the ethanol burns cooler.
I suspect this makes for a happier Catalytic Converter.
Hopefully others more knowledgeable will chime in.
'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Originally Posted by Sebastian Bird
Yes exactly, I've got the handheld I've sent them.my car software just waiting for the tune back now to put on the car. I'll keep everyone posted.
I hope you have the tools to data log properly and aren’t blindly relying them saying your fuel system can handle E85 with no mods. Because I’ll put money on it that it can’t!
Yes the guys at Eurocharged have advised me that the stock car will run on E85 with no problems without any mechanical upgrades. I'm guessing Jerry and Sean have both done there research and are happy with it otherwise they wouldn't have gave me a full flex fuel tune.
I have now received the file so I will load it onto the car when i get chance. I still have over half a tank of 98 in it so I will need to run that out before I can properly try it.
I don't have the tools to data log but I have a laptop and I'm happy to data log for anyone who would want to see it.
So I installed the E85 tune this morning, car definitely feels faster. I'm hopefully getting it dyno'd next Friday on a dynomax. Will be able to see what numbers it's actually making. I filled the car up with 30litres of E85 and already had 98 in it. Would like to try and use all that up before next Friday so I can run with as much E85 as possible on the Dyno.
I have emailed Jerry asking what sort of figures I should be expecting.
So I installed the E85 tune this morning, car definitely feels faster. I'm hopefully getting it dyno'd next Friday on a dynomax. Will be able to see what numbers it's actually making. I filled the car up with 30litres of E85 and already had 98 in it. Would like to try and use all that up before next Friday so I can run with as much E85 as possible on the Dyno.
I have emailed Jerry asking what sort of figures I should be expecting.
Will keep everyone posted.
What tune did you have on it before? Was it dynoed on that dyno before?
What tune did you have on it before? Was it dynoed on that dyno before?
When I first bought the car it was tuned and it used to crackle and pop. It was quick. I then had it put back to stock by mercedes to see if I could resolve a airbag light issue. I then got the problem sorted and I've had the tune from EC. Jerry emailed me earlier on with another tune the same one he is running.
Apparently the one he sent me yesterday was only 14psi.
It's now an absolute animal!! It will definitely be interesting to get it on the Dyno next week I'm going to try it with a mix of 98 and E85 then straight E85.
I'm confused as well. My stage 1 tune doesn't rely on additional hardware to make power safely, but I am restricted to E50 concentrations with my cars fuel delivery system as it stands. This may be specific to my car only and only a vehicle specific limitation.
The stage 2 tune I noted above relied on an upgraded Fuel Pump to make the numbers safely. Those numbers were from Jerry's development car.
I haven't spoken with Jerry in some time, but are they saying you can run straight E85 now without any additional hardware modes to make that power? If so, this must be a recent advancement. I'm really curious to see results.
Are you able to log fuel rail pressure and STFT's when out and about? I'd hate to see you damage your engine due to an oversight on someones part.
How can I data log all that while out and about? What software would I need? I'm happy to do it I have a laptop just need the software.
How can I data log all that while out and about? What software would I need? I'm happy to do it I have a laptop just need the software.
I tired many different dataloggers for our platform until HP tuners finally released a full support for our cars. I think i may have been the first on the forum to introduce it here, the price is 300$, the user interface is pretty good, takes some time under the belt to get to know your way around but its a solid system. I will soon make a thread to help everyone with a get started write up.
I reached out to Sean at EuroCharged this morning inquiring about the tune provided to Seb. Apparently it is a true E85 flex fuel tune that is slightly milder than mine to allow the car to run full E85 safely on stock hardware. The dyno I posted in the original post IS NOT THIS ONE. I was worried that Seb's car would be at risk if running the same boost/fuel rate as that one. The tune I have is only good for E50 safely.
While Seb is posting in this thread, his tune is better placed in the Stage 1 Flex Fuel post.
This new tune is very similar to my Stage 1 tune, only at slightly less max boost to reduce the injector demand. Power is made via timing, not boost.
It would have been great to have a base dyno to compare the new tune against, but I guess we have to be happy with just an after tune dyno.
I'm hoping Seb can take the car to the quarter mile to log the trap speeds to see what kind of power is now being made. Stock, these cars ran 119/120mph. Previous Stage 2 tunes with downpipe typically saw 127mph traps... I would hope this new E85 flex tune, on stock hardware, would trap the same as the older stage 2 tunes, or even a little better.
'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
That makes a little more sense as I just don’t believe it’s possible to see the full potential of E85 with a stock fuel system. I too am curious to see if it compares to or outperforms a stage 2 tune.
I reached out to Sean at EuroCharged this morning inquiring about the tune provided to Seb. Apparently it is a true E85 flex fuel tune that is slightly milder than mine to allow the car to run full E85 safely on stock hardware. The dyno I posted in the original post IS NOT THIS ONE. I was worried that Seb's car would be at risk if running the same boost/fuel rate as that one. The tune I have is only good for E50 safely.
While Seb is posting in this thread, his tune is better placed in the Stage 1 Flex Fuel post.
This new tune is very similar to my Stage 1 tune, only at slightly less max boost to reduce the injector demand. Power is made via timing, not boost.
It would have been great to have a base dyno to compare the new tune against, but I guess we have to be happy with just an after tune dyno.
I'm hoping Seb can take the car to the quarter mile to log the trap speeds to see what kind of power is now being made. Stock, these cars ran 119/120mph. Previous Stage 2 tunes with downpipe typically saw 127mph traps... I would hope this new E85 flex tune, on stock hardware, would trap the same as the older stage 2 tunes, or even a little better.
Thanks for reaching out and confirming that, I also spoke to Jerry quite a bit yesterday and gave me some numbers of what he thinks I should achieve on the Dyno.
He said 670-690awhp, I have the car booked in next Friday at 9am in the morning. I'm going to run the car up there on a mix of 98 and E85. That's what is in it at the moment. I will get him to do some runs on that then hopefully fill it up with E85 and see what it makes.
I don't know if I have a quarter mile track here in France I know I have a race track 20minutes from me. I'm wondering if they will let me do some 1/4mile runs.
If not I'm thinking of getting the dragy GPS and see what my 60-130mph times are.
What sort mix do you think I'm running with 30liters of E85 and the rest 98 octane/super unleaded as we call it?
I'm assuming your 98 (our 93) has 10% ethanol. If it doesn't, please let me know.
30 L of E85 converted to imperial gallons is near enough 8 gallons, with the remainder of the tank 13 gallons of 93 octane. Based on these assumptions I'm guessing you have an equivalent of E39 blend in the tank or around 98 octane total - assuming you filled the tank.
This new tune is very similar to my Stage 1 tune, only at slightly less max boost to reduce the injector demand. Power is made via timing, not boost.
This about sums up the M157 tuning... Timing games once you start going high octane and such. Also what sets alot of tunes on the market apart in general for this motor even on pump gas.
I reached out to Sean at EuroCharged this morning inquiring about the tune provided to Seb. Apparently it is a true E85 flex fuel tune that is slightly milder than mine to allow the car to run full E85 safely on stock hardware. The dyno I posted in the original post IS NOT THIS ONE. I was worried that Seb's car would be at risk if running the same boost/fuel rate as that one. The tune I have is only good for E50 safely.
While Seb is posting in this thread, his tune is better placed in the Stage 1 Flex Fuel post.
This new tune is very similar to my Stage 1 tune, only at slightly less max boost to reduce the injector demand. Power is made via timing, not boost.
It would have been great to have a base dyno to compare the new tune against, but I guess we have to be happy with just an after tune dyno.
I'm hoping Seb can take the car to the quarter mile to log the trap speeds to see what kind of power is now being made. Stock, these cars ran 119/120mph. Previous Stage 2 tunes with downpipe typically saw 127mph traps... I would hope this new E85 flex tune, on stock hardware, would trap the same as the older stage 2 tunes, or even a little better.
Brutus - hey great info again thanks for sharing.
Curious any feedback from Jerry regarding engine safety considerations (pros/cons) by going with more Timing vs more Boost for his E85 tune? Seems most other tuners focus on higher boost (AMS, Renntech, Weistec) to achieve power gains vs adding timing but those tunes are not running E85 like Jerry (is adding timing the safer route if using E85 since it puts less stress on the turbos?) Sorry if these are amateur questions but thanks in advance if you can comment.... thx J
Eurocharged has a normal tune that runs higher boost, just like the others you mentioned, and the power is as good as any. With e85 on stock fueling setup, there likely isn't enough fuel for the higher boost so that's why they are going the timing route. Also, the power likely carries to redline much better instead of falling off at high rpms due to the stock turbos not being able to hold high boost at high rpms.
As you mentioned, there's less stress on the turbos & it's probably better for preventing heatsoak too, for what that's worth.
Hopefully they are developing some fuel system upgrades to go with an e85 tune which could give the best of both worlds.
Just got back from the Dyno and here is the graph attached.
We had problems with the front wheels not sitting in the rollers properly. The Dyno wasn't adjustable to the wheelbase of the car.
We made 664awhp and around 640awtq.
This was running on if my working out was correct a blend of E72.
We done the runs in 4th gear, manual with the traction control off.
We had a problem where the power seems to drop off on the top end.
The traction system in the car was having a paddy too and throwing fault codes up. We think because the front wheels weren't in the rollers properly.
I'm going to a different Dyno hopefully next week that the car will fit into properly to get a full reading and eliminate any problems we might have had.
I'm over the moon with this result. I can't wait to see some of your logs. The car must really come alive for you now on the highway.
From where I'm sitting, your torque looks great given that this tune is at stock boost levels. I'm betting the car's TCU likes it a whole lot better as well.
Congrats again. These cars were sleepers before, but on a whole other level now.... and all while running stock hardware other wise.
What did the dyno operator say? He had to be impressed with the power made.
Impressive results, considering everything else is stock. What were the stock numbers for comparison? I wonder what kind of numbers will it give for something that already has an EC stage 2 tune?
I'm over the moon with this result. I can't wait to see some of your logs. The car must really come alive for you now on the highway.
From where I'm sitting, your torque looks great given that this tune is at stock boost levels. I'm betting the car's TCU likes it a whole lot better as well.
Congrats again. These cars were sleepers before, but on a whole other level now.... and all while running stock hardware other wise.
What did the dyno operator say? He had to be impressed with the power made.
I'm well impressed, naturally I want more but that's my nature haha
1st & 2nd in anything other than super dry conditions is hopeless to be honest. 3rd & 4th much better but I still get wheel spin in 3rd to 4th and sometimes from 4th to 5th. It's a beast on the road it really is it pulls so hard in 3rd and 4th. It hits about 135mph in 4th before changing to 5th.
The tuner has never had anything in the Dyno that powerful his face said it all when he was sat in the car and the front was lifting. I'll try and upload some videos if I can.
I took him out in it after and he was creaming his pants!
Still going to see if I can get on this other Dyno and get some more runs and data logs.
I've ordered the dragy GPS so will also see what times I get 60-130mph as I don't have a 1/4 mile track.
Impressive results, considering everything else is stock. What were the stock numbers for comparison? I wonder what kind of numbers will it give for something that already has an EC stage 2 tune?
12-26-2019, 11:41 AM
