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Was this on full E85 or still a blend? This may explain the 7.3 60-130.
I'm very happy for you.
I'm glad to see others getting similar results to mine on stock hardware.
This helps validate the tune and eliminates a lot of the guesswork surrounding aftermarket mods. With all my previous testing, I was having a hard time justifying expensive aftermarket hardware to reap performance benefits. Your dyno plot helps solidify my feelings regarding aftermarket mods. If my business model was based on the sale of downpipes I'd be a little worried right now.
Now we get to look into the longevity of the tune, and only time will tell there.
Maybe this is the start of the second wave of tunes for these cars now that the field has matured.
Brutus_tx the torque comparison is down about 55 ft lbs or so versus top end horsepower the delta is 45HP. With the addition of a high flow fuel pump and supporting fuel rails the torque should be comparable to Jerry's. I really think the AMS clutch pack upgrade is almost a necessity at this point. What is your thoughts on that?
Brutus_tx the torque comparison is down about 55 ft lbs or so versus top end horsepower the delta is 45HP. With the addition of a high flow fuel pump and supporting fuel rails the torque should be comparable to Jerry's. I really think the AMS clutch pack upgrade is almost a necessity at this point. What is your thoughts on that?
Jerry's tune is running ~18 psi. This one is barely above stock if I'm correct. The extra fueling and boost seems to only affect the low end torque. The top end power across the three tunes is only around ~30 whp it seems...
Because the max torque has been moved further up the power band, the transmission seems to like it better. For my E50 tune I purposely asked Jerry to keep it under the 800 lb-ft threshold as that seems like the magic number. I have not detected any slipping with my tune. I can't speak to Jerry with his more aggressive tune.
Good enough I was comparing Sebastian's tune to yours but with supporting modes he can achieve Jerry like numbers at that point is where the upgraded clutch packs might be a necessity.
Great ingenuity on your part for seeing this on a different approach. I'm still sticky with the E50 tune but my objective will be the TCU flash which should help propel this beast into the high 10's.
Was this on full E85 or still a blend? This may explain the 7.3 60-130.
I'm very happy for you.
I'm glad to see others getting similar results to mine on stock hardware.
This helps validate the tune and eliminates a lot of the guesswork surrounding aftermarket mods. With all my previous testing, I was having a hard time justifying expensive aftermarket hardware to reap performance benefits. Your dyno plot helps solidify my feelings regarding aftermarket mods. If my business model was based on the sale of downpipes I'd be a little worried right now.
Now we get to look into the longevity of the tune, and only time will tell there.
Maybe this is the start of the second wave of tunes for these cars now that the field has matured.
Brutus - hey, does Jerry/EC have a 100 octane version of this E85 tune that makes similar power (but without the potential issues that ethanol causes)? Or are these power gains/tuning options he's figured out unique to E85 and not possible with 100 octane or higher fuel?
Good enough I was comparing Sebastian's tune to yours but with supporting modes he can achieve Jerry like numbers at that point is where the upgraded clutch packs might be a necessity.
Great ingenuity on your part for seeing this on a different approach. I'm still sticky with the E50 tune but my objective will be the TCU flash which should help propel this beast into the high 10's.
Agree 100% on the potential clutch issues with the more aggressive tunes. Its for this reason I purposely asked Jerry to retard torque below 800 with my tune. Its no fluke that my power is 680awhp/780awtq.
With all the logging I've been doing I struggle with what any more torque brings to the table... the TCU restricts the usable torque down low, so having extra on tap that you can't use seems a waste to me. Once the car is rolling, the upper band of the rpm range is used... and then we are only talking 30 or so more horsepower separation between the tunes, and where torque is much less a factor in acceleration.
The other reason I like the E50 versus full E85 tune is borne out of concern for longevity of the fueling system.
Because I'm running a blend, I get the benefits of the gas detergents and lubricants that are evident in the 93 octane gasoline. This will hopefully keep things lubricated. Those running straight E85 would be advised to run a bunch of 93 through the system occasionally.
Like you, my next step is a TCU tune to truly unlock the performance of these cars. Without that in place, then there will be a no reason, IMO, to look any further at the torque available with the more aggressive tunes.
Brutus - hey, does Jerry/EC have a 100 octane version of this E85 tune that makes similar power (but without the potential issues that ethanol causes)? Or are these power gains/tuning options he's figured out unique to E85 and not possible with 100 octane or higher fuel?
My E50 tune (consider it a Stage1+ Flex Fuel tune) can be used with either straight 93 octane, a combination of ethanol and gas to net E50, or straight race gas.
Your horsepower made will be a condition of the octane rating of the fuel in the tank. You don't have to run ethanol to reap the benefits of the higher octane.
Just know that when running the E50 tune (aka Brutus Tune), you will be restricted to a maximum of E50 concentration in the tank. This restriction is because of the stock fueling limitations of the AMG hardware.
If you put a full tank of 104 race gas in the tank you don't have the injector worry as the fuel rate required is less than when running an ethanol blend.
In closing...
93 octane in the tank - overall reduction in performance but still around 640 awhp
E50 (max) in the tank (100 octane) - 680 awhp/ 780 awtq
Race gas (100 octane) - similar to E50 above
The octane rating will drive the power available from the tune. I'm am going to the track next Friday (17th) and plan on putting race gas on top of my E50 blend to increase the octane rating to something north of 100 octane to see if that gets me into the 10's...
If you get the E50 tune realize you don't need to use ethanol. It will gladly run on straight gasoline, but the tune gives you the flexibility to run up to E50 concentrations safely if you have access to the cheaper fuel.
If you get the E50 tune realize you don't need to use ethanol. It will gladly run on straight gasoline, but the tune gives you the flexibility to run up to E50 concentrations safely if you have access to the cheaper fuel.
no... all these tunes are flex fuel tunes....
my E50 tune is a hybrid between the Stage 1 tune that Seb is running and the stage 2 tune the requires hardware support that is still being worked by Jerry. That dyno is at the top of this thread.,
The Stage 1 tune can run anything from 93 to straight E85 and runs around 15psi. It makes the least amount of torque but similar horsepower to mine.
My Stage 1+ tune runs 18 psi but is hardware restricted to E50 because I don't have the necessary hardware upgrades to make power safely with ethanol concentrations above E50. It makes 680 awhp/780 awtq
The Stage 2 tune coming from Jerry runs 18 psi, but has the hardware modifications to run full E85. He is making 705 awhp / 840 awtq. This tune is not for sale yet and will need supporting mods.
Clear as mud?
PS all three tunes will gladly run on race gas as well...
My E50 tune (consider it a Stage1+ Flex Fuel tune) can be used with either straight 93 octane, a combination of ethanol and gas to net E50, or straight race gas.
Your horsepower made will be a condition of the octane rating of the fuel in the tank. You don't have to run ethanol to reap the benefits of the higher octane.
Just know that when running the E50 tune (aka Brutus Tune), you will be restricted to a maximum of E50 concentration in the tank. This restriction is because of the stock fueling limitations of the AMG hardware.
If you put a full tank of 104 race gas in the tank you don't have the injector worry as the fuel rate required is less than when running an ethanol blend.
In closing...
93 octane in the tank - overall reduction in performance but still around 640 awhp
E50 (max) in the tank (100 octane) - 680 awhp/ 780 awtq
Race gas (100 octane) - similar to E50 above
The octane rating will drive the power available from the tune. I'm am going to the track next Friday (17th) and plan on putting race gas on top of my E50 blend to increase the octane rating to something north of 100 octane to see if that gets me into the 10's...
If you get the E50 tune realize you don't need to use ethanol. It will gladly run on straight gasoline, but the tune gives you the flexibility to run up to E50 concentrations safely if you have access to the cheaper fuel.
Is your E50 Brutus tune running on all stock hardware as well?
no... all these tunes are flex fuel tunes....
my E50 tune is a hybrid between the Stage 1 tune that Seb is running and the stage 2 tune the requires hardware support that is still being worked by Jerry. That dyno is at the top of this thread.,
The Stage 1 tune can run anything from 93 to straight E85 and runs around 15psi. It makes the least amount of torque but similar horsepower to mine.
My Stage 1+ tune runs 18 psi but is hardware restricted to E50 because I don't have the necessary hardware upgrades to make power safely with ethanol concentrations above E50. It makes 680 awhp/780 awtq
The Stage 2 tune coming from Jerry runs 18 psi, but has the hardware modifications to run full E85. He is making 705 awhp / 840 awtq. This tune is not for sale yet and will need supporting mods.
Clear as mud?
very clear. and i want to thank you, @Sebastian Bird , @Marine 1 , @5soko , @chiromikey and everyone else that has shared info/thoughts/experience with this community. I spoke to EC before the holidays and they suggested...with the miles/age of my car...to have a compression test done before getting the tune. these new updates have me scheduling that test very soon.
Yes... it was the precursor to both the Stage 1 and Stage 2 Flex Fuel tune.
I am completely stock in all aspects with the exception of water meth for air charge cooling. we disable the meth when dyno'ing and I've run without it in the quarter with zero change in performance.
Intake - Stock
Air Filter - Stock
Plugs - Stock and Stock gap
Down pipes and Cats - Stock
Exhaust - Stock w/ muffler delete
I run Weistec Water Meth kit with smallest nozzles - 250cc
TCU - stock (unfortunately)
Fastest to date was 11.05@129.5 running E50, on stock Pirelli P Zeros set at 51 psi a corner, with traction control off and brake boosting.
Best 60' was 1.7
Best 0-60 was 3.2 seconds
I'm at 88,000 miles currently and its daily driven. if you maintain the car and don't beat on its mercilessly, then it'll be fine.
I had to change my engine mounts at 65K, but that's to be expected when you've got upwards of 50 quarter mile runs under your belt.
Yes... it was the precursor to both the Stage 1 and Stage 2 Flex Fuel tune.
I am completely stock in all aspects with the exception of water meth for air charge cooling. we disable the meth when dyno'ing and I've run it in the quarter with zero change in performance.
Intake - Stock
Air Filter - Stock
Plugs - Stock and Stock gap
Down pipes and Cats - Stock
Exhaust - Stock w/ muffler delete
I run Weistec Water Meth kit with smallest nozzles - 250cc
TCU - stock (unfortunately)
Fastest to date was 11.05@129.5 running E50, on stock Pirelli P Zeros set at 51 psi a corner, with traction control off and brake boosting.
Best 60' was 1.7
Best 0-60 was 3.2 seconds
I'm at 88,000 miles currently and its daily driven. if you maintain the car and don't beat on its mercilessly, then it'll be fine.
I had to change my engine mounts at 65K, but that's to be expected when you've got upwards of 50 quarter mile runs under your belt.
This was exactly what I was looking for....Thanks!
Do you know if your Brutus tune is available to the public yet from EC?
This was exactly what I was looking for....Thanks!
Do you know if your Brutus tune is available to the public yet from EC?
I don't see why not. I sure as heck don't own the IP on it... I only call it the Brutus tune to help differentiate it from the stage 1 offering Seb is running.
I suggest emailing Jerry direct. I expect he will be pretty swamped today though after Seb's dyno dropped....
no... all these tunes are flex fuel tunes....
my E50 tune is a hybrid between the Stage 1 tune that Seb is running and the stage 2 tune the requires hardware support that is still being worked by Jerry. That dyno is at the top of this thread.,
The Stage 1 tune can run anything from 93 to straight E85 and runs around 15psi. It makes the least amount of torque but similar horsepower to mine.
My Stage 1+ tune runs 18 psi but is hardware restricted to E50 because I don't have the necessary hardware upgrades to make power safely with ethanol concentrations above E50. It makes 680 awhp/780 awtq
The Stage 2 tune coming from Jerry runs 18 psi, but has the hardware modifications to run full E85. He is making 705 awhp / 840 awtq. This tune is not for sale yet and will need supporting mods.
Clear as mud?
PS all three tunes will gladly run on race gas as well...
Have you spoke to Jerry lately Brett?
Apparently the tune I am running is the same as his from what he said to me a couple of weeks ago. He has the hardware upgrades which is why his makes more torque because the tune can demand more?
This is quoted from Jerry
Try this file now! It pulls so hard in 3rd gear from 4000 to redline. Trq is controlled heavily to protect gearbox….
Last edited by Sebastian Bird; 01-07-2020 at 04:39 PM.
Agree 100% on the potential clutch issues with the more aggressive tunes. Its for this reason I purposely asked Jerry to retard torque below 800 with my tune. Its no fluke that my power is 680awhp/780awtq.
With all the logging I've been doing I struggle with what any more torque brings to the table... the TCU restricts the usable torque down low, so having extra on tap that you can't use seems a waste to me. Once the car is rolling, the upper band of the rpm range is used... and then we are only talking 30 or so more horsepower separation between the tunes, and where torque is much less a factor in acceleration.
The other reason I like the E50 versus full E85 tune is borne out of concern for longevity of the fueling system.
Because I'm running a blend, I get the benefits of the gas detergents and lubricants that are evident in the 93 octane gasoline. This will hopefully keep things lubricated. Those running straight E85 would be advised to run a bunch of 93 through the system occasionally.
Like you, my next step is a TCU tune to truly unlock the performance of these cars. Without that in place, then there will be a no reason, IMO, to look any further at the torque available with the more aggressive tunes.
As the old adage goes torque doesn't win races Horsepower does. So mostly stock on mine expect for 2nd cat deletes and Renntech exhaust. Filters will be next at the most then TCU.
Hey I'm just enjoying the ride here and start establishing the W212 as an *** kicker in the 1/4 mile and street racing !!
no... all these tunes are flex fuel tunes....
my E50 tune is a hybrid between the Stage 1 tune that Seb is running and the stage 2 tune the requires hardware support that is still being worked by Jerry. That dyno is at the top of this thread.,
The Stage 1 tune can run anything from 93 to straight E85 and runs around 15psi. It makes the least amount of torque but similar horsepower to mine.
My Stage 1+ tune runs 18 psi but is hardware restricted to E50 because I don't have the necessary hardware upgrades to make power safely with ethanol concentrations above E50. It makes 680 awhp/780 awtq
The Stage 2 tune coming from Jerry runs 18 psi, but has the hardware modifications to run full E85. He is making 705 awhp / 840 awtq. This tune is not for sale yet and will need supporting mods.
Clear as mud?
PS all three tunes will gladly run on race gas as well...
super clear Brutus! your explanations and details have been incredible thank you for sharing. amazing that EC/Jerry is achieving 650+ WHP (on the AWD / E63) with only 15-18psi boost levels and all other stock hardware.
Some other tuners like AMS (from what I hear) are pushing 20-21psi boost and achieving barely 600WHP and with huge 750 WTQ that is really not that usable as you explained due to tq limits on the AWD/E63
Some other tuners like AMS (from what I hear) are pushing 20-21psi boost and achieving barely 600WHP and with huge 750 WTQ that is really not that usable as you explained due to tq limits on the AWD/E63
AMS should be around ~630 on pump gas. ~700 on 100+ octane. Regardless, this tune is showing great results!
01-07-2020, 11:42 AM
