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#5 cylinder valves ? If so, at what miles and modded or stock ?
Apparently the ECU on the 14/15 E63S' have a pretty lean map but I'm just wondering if its still a low number of examples as far as failures. My 14 E63S has 101K miles now and knock on wood , it still pulls hard but has never been modded. Over-maintained, only at MBZ dealers and plugs and coils have already been replaced twice in its lifespan....
I don't ever go WOT on hot days , never have on any of my cars whether they're FI or NA .
Thanks and Happy 4th !
Here's a pic of my AMG and my GT4. Perfect stablemates.
Great to hear yet you’re at 100K miles on a stock e63 and it’s still running strong!
I’ve heard that the most common cylinder misfire with modded cars is cylinder five because of it’s placement right next to the turbo and all the heat from that.
also know that indexing plugs is very important to the valves and cylinder health.
Other than that, the injectors would be next and I have not been hearing much about guys replacing those.
At what intervals have you changed your plugs and coils?
Mine is a 15 with 37,000 miles but I still love driving it every single time I fire it up!
Lost cylinder #5 at 85k miles. Maintenance done at dealer. Plugs changed 4 times since 22k miles (every -15k miles). Oil changed every -6-7k miles.
Stock coils and injectors (maybe that was the culprit).
Stock air filter with intake spacer.
AMS full cooling system (never went above 130 degrees even in 100degree ambient temps under wot)
RT tune from 27k miles to -60k miles (changed tune due to too many misfires under wot).
EC tune from 60k miles till engine blew.
Car pulled hard and strong all the way to the day it gave up the ghost. Made 590-600 rwhp, 730rwtq just weeks before blowing up (similar numbers it made a year prior)
Lost cylinder #5 at 85k miles. Maintenance done at dealer. Plugs changed 4 times since 22k miles (every -15k miles). Oil changed every -6-7k miles.
Stock coils and injectors (maybe that was the culprit).
Stock air filter with intake spacer.
AMS full cooling system (never went above 130 degrees even in 100degree ambient temps under wot)
RT tune from 27k miles to -60k miles (changed tune due to too many misfires under wot).
EC tune from 60k miles till engine blew.
Car pulled hard and strong all the way to the day it gave up the ghost. Made 590-600 rwhp, 730rwtq just weeks before blowing up (similar numbers it made a year prior)
Hey Kponti - was it the cylinder or valve or both on your #5 cylinder that was damaged??
was that 5 cylinder the one you were getting most of your misfires on with the RT tune??
what did they determine caused the issue??
am curious as you did all the required maintenance for a tuned 157 with frequent plug changes, oil etc but am wondering if injectors at that mileage level 85k are something owners should be checking / testing especially when tuned??? Sorry to hear that happened sounds like your car was quite a beast!
Lost cylinder #5 at 85k miles. Maintenance done at dealer. Plugs changed 4 times since 22k miles (every -15k miles). Oil changed every -6-7k miles.
Stock coils and injectors (maybe that was the culprit).
Stock air filter with intake spacer.
AMS full cooling system (never went above 130 degrees even in 100degree ambient temps under wot)
RT tune from 27k miles to -60k miles (changed tune due to too many misfires under wot).
EC tune from 60k miles till engine blew.
Car pulled hard and strong all the way to the day it gave up the ghost. Made 590-600 rwhp, 730rwtq just weeks before blowing up (similar numbers it made a year prior)
Sorry to hear !
I have yet to hear of anyone with a tune not having misfire issues and that simply can't be a good thing for the valves and rods. I'm not sure why AMG didn't set the compression ratio lower on this motor as there's no way the engineers weren't aware of the crazy high IAT's after even just 1 hard pull on a warm day.
I'm going to have my tech at the dealer go ahead and replace all the injectors while its there for the steering bolt recall as well as breather valve update . I'm going to keep it stock , its plenty fast.
If you don't mind me asking, did you have the head pulled and rebuilt ? if so, what was the total cost to get it back on the road ?
Hey Kponti - was it the cylinder or valve or both on your #5 cylinder that was damaged??
was that 5 cylinder the one you were getting most of your misfires on with the RT tune??
what did they determine caused the issue??
am curious as you did all the required maintenance for a tuned 157 with frequent plug changes, oil etc but am wondering if injectors at that mileage level 85k are something owners should be checking / testing especially when tuned??? Sorry to hear that happened sounds like your car was quite a beast!
The valve, rings and cylinder walls (scratched) let go on #5. Also I did have some issues on other cylinders, but #5 was the one that failed both compression and leakdown. When the engine was taken apart, the piston had cracks in it.
I suspect too much timing and possibly a failed injector was to blame for my issue.
On the RT tune, I had random misfires not usually isolated to one cylinder
Sorry to hear !
I have yet to hear of anyone with a tune not having misfire issues and that simply can't be a good thing for the valves and rods. I'm not sure why AMG didn't set the compression ratio lower on this motor as there's no way the engineers weren't aware of the crazy high IAT's after even just 1 hard pull on a warm day.
I'm going to have my tech at the dealer go ahead and replace all the injectors while its there for the steering bolt recall as well as breather valve update . I'm going to keep it stock , its plenty fast.
If you don't mind me asking, did you have the head pulled and rebuilt ? if so, what was the total cost to get it back on the road ?
Naaa lost both top and bottom end of the engine. Swapped to a lower mileage used engine from a wrecked car. Including replacing wiring harness, ECU and injectors, cost was about $18k to hey her back on the road.
She is gone now, waiting to get a 2021 next.
I don't think you should fear tuning. I think however you should have something good to datalog with if you are tuned regardless of who sold you the tune.
I got my initial RT tune back in 2015 and my Eurocharged tune in 2018. I see there is HP tuners available now for data logging. Do that you you will be fine.
The cyl 5 issue and death, is honestly over exaggerated. Most of the time (99.9%) its just a bad tune, or bad ignition system causing misfire that needs some renewing. From what i looked at Benz has never even updated or changed the part # on the valves which usually would be a sign of common or a known failure. And as for people usinG xentry claiming low compression. Mercedes even deleted the digital compression test on the new version of xentry as it was so inaccurate and some shops went by just this digital test to troubleshoot.
there are alot of M157 out there now and alot with high miles, it would be alot more common if this was a common failure point. Thr internet will do what it does best and hype any small issue to the max.
Agreed !!!! and now that I have my car back from the dealership, my full diagnostic results were indicative of a super healthy m157. I requested a compression check on all 8 cylinders and injectors + rails as far as any stored codes for impedance glitch and anything that might indicate one possibly getting stuck open in the future and I have to say that I am beyond stoked that my Tech gave it a full passing grade. He said the car was over-maintained and pampered most of its life ( I'm the 2nd owner -just got it in the beginning of Summer ). Even my plastic turbo coolant lines look good w/ no sign of crustiness . Kudos to Steffen Scheider who built my motor !!!
Compression results for both the old school gauge and via SDS showed all 8 where they should be. He was not shocked that even at 100K miles the range average was 155lbs and no fuel rate irregularities . I even asked was this due to not being tuned, and he said he's got a bunch of tuned m157 owners w/ little to no problems, and he has yet to see a Cyl 5 problem. He went on to say he can count w/ 1 hand how many m156 head bolts he's had to deal with, and only the last 2 yrs has he even seen headbolts snap.
That said, all cases are circumstantial and my dealer is just 1 sample of hundreds so ...YMMV.
Originally Posted by Lumi
The cyl 5 issue and death, is honestly over exaggerated. Most of the time (99.9%) its just a bad tune, or bad ignition system causing misfire that needs some renewing. From what i looked at Benz has never even updated or changed the part # on the valves which usually would be a sign of common or a known failure. And as for people usinG xentry claiming low compression. Mercedes even deleted the digital compression test on the new version of xentry as it was so inaccurate and some shops went by just this digital test to troubleshoot.
there are alot of M157 out there now and alot with high miles, it would be alot more common if this was a common failure point. Thr internet will do what it does best and hype any small issue to the max.
The cyl 5 issue and death, is honestly over exaggerated. Most of the time (99.9%) its just a bad tune, or bad ignition system causing misfire that needs some renewing. From what i looked at Benz has never even updated or changed the part # on the valves which usually would be a sign of common or a known failure. And as for people usinG xentry claiming low compression. Mercedes even deleted the digital compression test on the new version of xentry as it was so inaccurate and some shops went by just this digital test to troubleshoot.
there are alot of M157 out there now and alot with high miles, it would be alot more common if this was a common failure point. Thr internet will do what it does best and hype any small issue to the max.
just my 2 cents.
Yes and No on that.
Cylinder #5 wall scratches are very very common. However does not always lead to complete engine failure. Mine took 2-3 years after it was first noted. My tech said he sees it on about half the M157s with more than 50k miles as well as most M278 engines. 3 of the guys around here whose cars have been scoped have damaged cylinder walls on #5. So it is very common for tuned and to a lesser extent, stock M157/278s to have damaged cylinder walls on #5. Whether that leads to lowered compression etc is not always definite
Yes and No on that.
Cylinder #5 wall scratches are very very common. However does not always lead to complete engine failure. Mine took 2-3 years after it was first noted. My tech said he sees it on about half the M157s with more than 50k miles as well as most M278 engines. 3 of the guys around here whose cars have been scoped have damaged cylinder walls on #5. So it is very common for tuned and to a lesser extent, stock M157/278s to have damaged cylinder walls on #5. Whether that leads to lowered compression etc is not always definite
I toured the factory in 2017 . In the engine display & archives section, an AMG Engineer was explaining to us that with the new V8 BiTurbo at the time ( M177/78 ) , Nanoslide technology coating was applied to the walls further reducing heat retention and friction. The display cutaway was a fully polished cylinder pre-Nanoslide coat. This was trickle down from the F1 power plant which is one of the things that keeps me loyal to the brand. They keep the race on Sunday , sell on Monday mantra going.
I'm in the belief that the 2 contributors to possible scoring would be either the carbon particulates breaking off the valves or dust particulates getting sucked in making their way down the engine. Carbon buildup is the unfortunate by-product of DI . Toyota and Ford are the only companies to my knowledge that does both port and DI starting way back with their V6's w/ D-4S injection for Toyota and Ecoboost w/ Ford.
To alleviate my fears of carbon build up ( dealt w/ it on my Audi RS4 and B8.5 S4 ) I'm going to have a water/meth kit added to the E63S .
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