Tell me why I need an E63 in my life
Before we get into the cars, a quick bit about me. I'm a hot rodder, machinist, fabricator, and gunsmith with my daytime job being a parts guy at a non-MB dealer. My other vehicles are a 1992 Dodge D250 Cummins truck and a 1972 Chrysler Imperial with a 541 cubic inch (8.9 liter) V8. The Imperial and truck are the same length, each being nearly 2 feet longer than a W221. I'm no stranger to performance. My last toy was a 3700 lb 1965 Plymouth with a twin turbocharged fuel injected 440 (7.2 liter) and S55 brakes.
My experience and familiarity with MB vehicles is extensive. I spent 15 years working the parts counter at Mercedes stores, was Master certified, and my training transcript holds more than 180 entries. I have no problem doing my own maintenance and repair. For things I'm not set up to do, I have good friends in the MB world and still get a significant discount on parts. My commute to work is about 20 minutes these days but I tend to drive quite a bit.
Current daily C55 pros:
Rock solid reliability.
Fun to drive.
Not bad on gas (16 city 22 highway).
Dirty cheap to own.
Cons:
A bit cramped inside.
Gets claustrophobic on a road trip.
Not enough power.
Near zero aftermarket support.
Drags the front bumper on everything in sight.
If I replace my C55 it will be with another AMG. I'm currently looking at a 2011+ S63, 2012+ E63, and 2012+ ML63. All can be had for similar money.
The contenders:
The ML63 has the nicest seating position (I prefer fairly upright, not slammed back like a 2 dollar hooker showing her goods) and best visibility. It's the lowest performer by far and the side steps Stick out enough to be in the way but not far enough to be useful. Brakes, unlike the other two, are pretty cheap. Airmatic can pose issues but they're fairly solid in the long run. Features and options are on par with the 212 but fall well behind the 221. MPG is the worst of the bunch. Light towing is possible, it'll have room for hauling stuff, and I'll never drag the bumper again!
E63 is where the performance is found. Silly fast in stock form and crazy fast with a tune. Seating position is not bad but the top of the door trim panel is a bit awkward for someone like me who rests his arm up there. Brakes are nearly as expensive as the S-class. Reliability is average since the car is lacking many of the features that make a 221 special. MPG is the best of this bunch but not by a significant margin. Trunk space is up slightly from the 203. AWD is available and decreases the brake rotor cost but increases the opportunity for driveline failure. Bumper dragging is to be expected.
S63 is a very nice place to be. It's a lumbering beast compared to the C55 and even the E63 but not too bad in the grand scheme of things. Comfort is very high, assuming the pneumatic seats are working. If I go this route it will be equipped with the rear seat package and night view assist. Because I can. Cost of ownership is very high. Replace an ABC pump lately? Highway cruising is hard to beat and it's not bad around town. A bit less maneuverable than the others when it comes to tight spots but still demands far less acreage than the Imperial or truck. This car has the most going for it which means it's also got the highest chance of failure and resulting high cost of ownership. Even more if I get silly and splurge for an S65. The trunk space is quite nice. Yes, you can poke the button to raise the car over parking curbs, but let's face it, I'm going to end up dragging the bumper car too often.
Now, your job is to make the case as to why I need the E63 more than the other two vehicles. As for you performance junkies, forget you ever heard of ethanol blend fuels. I drive everywhere and E30+ is not always available. I've had my truck in 37 states and will continue to make those trips. Despite enhanced performance, ethanol is not for me. Please do not bring it into this discussion.
Out of the 3 the e63 is going to probably the most reliable, but I would guess not as reliable as your c55. I really want an w212 e63, but am getting tired of the German engineering issues. I almost bought an amg gt, but realized when it broke( whether active motor mounts or transmission issues) I wasn’t going to be happy.
When you get into the cars with hydraulic and air suspension, the reliability changes.
As for the s65 that’s a whole different universe of cost and reliability, which shouldn’t be based on the reliability factor of your c55. You would really have to love the car to put up with 12 cylinders.
Last edited by cdk4219; Jul 4, 2021 at 04:17 PM.
The M157 shares the oil in the harness issue with the M278 as well as the tendency to burn the #5 exhaust valve when things start to go south. Then, there's the plastic coolant lines that need attention when they age. They're more of those DON'T TOUCH THAT bits cause they're fine until you touch them.
As for suspension, Airmatic is usually easier to live with than ABC with the exception of the 212 rear shocks. Arnott fixed that gotta-drop-the-subframe issue.
I really long for the S65 but those things are time bombs. Other than the coil packs the V12 itself is rock solid. The rest of the stuff that comes with those cars is what will burn you down. However, there's nothing like a smooth running V12. The design cancels out primary and secondary harmonics in the running engine that can't be replicated with fewer cylinders.




Anyway the engines are the same in all the cars you're looking at, Id suggest just go test drive each one and pick the one that you like the best, fit in the best.
Anyway the engines are the same in all the cars you're looking at, Id suggest just go test drive each one and pick the one that you like the best, fit in the best.
As expected, the 221 guys started chanting V12. Yeah, they want to spend my money owning one of those but not spend their own money on one.
I've driven each of them back when they were new but no recent experience with the aging cars. What complicates things is the ML being surprisingly difficult to find in the DFW area. Otherwise I would have recent seat time.
The E63 really appeals to my hot rod side. At the same time, the S appeals to my preference for a nice place to be. That's the angel and devil fight I have going on. However, the rational side of me is saying the ML is where I need to be. I'm a single guy with three vehicles: a work truck, a gargantuan road crushing luxo barge, and a light zippy little kart for a daily.
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Before we get into the cars, a quick bit about me. I'm a hot rodder, machinist, fabricator, and gunsmith with my daytime job being a parts guy at a non-MB dealer. My other vehicles are a 1992 Dodge D250 Cummins truck and a 1972 Chrysler Imperial with a 541 cubic inch (8.9 liter) V8. The Imperial and truck are the same length, each being nearly 2 feet longer than a W221. I'm no stranger to performance. My last toy was a 3700 lb 1965 Plymouth with a twin turbocharged fuel injected 440 (7.2 liter) and S55 brakes.
My experience and familiarity with MB vehicles is extensive. I spent 15 years working the parts counter at Mercedes stores, was Master certified, and my training transcript holds more than 180 entries. I have no problem doing my own maintenance and repair. For things I'm not set up to do, I have good friends in the MB world and still get a significant discount on parts. My commute to work is about 20 minutes these days but I tend to drive quite a bit.
Current daily C55 pros:
Rock solid reliability.
Fun to drive.
Not bad on gas (16 city 22 highway).
Dirty cheap to own.
Cons:
A bit cramped inside.
Gets claustrophobic on a road trip.
Not enough power.
Near zero aftermarket support.
Drags the front bumper on everything in sight.
If I replace my C55 it will be with another AMG. I'm currently looking at a 2011+ S63, 2012+ E63, and 2012+ ML63. All can be had for similar money.
The contenders:
The ML63 has the nicest seating position (I prefer fairly upright, not slammed back like a 2 dollar hooker showing her goods) and best visibility. It's the lowest performer by far and the side steps Stick out enough to be in the way but not far enough to be useful. Brakes, unlike the other two, are pretty cheap. Airmatic can pose issues but they're fairly solid in the long run. Features and options are on par with the 212 but fall well behind the 221. MPG is the worst of the bunch. Light towing is possible, it'll have room for hauling stuff, and I'll never drag the bumper again!
E63 is where the performance is found. Silly fast in stock form and crazy fast with a tune. Seating position is not bad but the top of the door trim panel is a bit awkward for someone like me who rests his arm up there. Brakes are nearly as expensive as the S-class. Reliability is average since the car is lacking many of the features that make a 221 special. MPG is the best of this bunch but not by a significant margin. Trunk space is up slightly from the 203. AWD is available and decreases the brake rotor cost but increases the opportunity for driveline failure. Bumper dragging is to be expected.
S63 is a very nice place to be. It's a lumbering beast compared to the C55 and even the E63 but not too bad in the grand scheme of things. Comfort is very high, assuming the pneumatic seats are working. If I go this route it will be equipped with the rear seat package and night view assist. Because I can. Cost of ownership is very high. Replace an ABC pump lately? Highway cruising is hard to beat and it's not bad around town. A bit less maneuverable than the others when it comes to tight spots but still demands far less acreage than the Imperial or truck. This car has the most going for it which means it's also got the highest chance of failure and resulting high cost of ownership. Even more if I get silly and splurge for an S65. The trunk space is quite nice. Yes, you can poke the button to raise the car over parking curbs, but let's face it, I'm going to end up dragging the bumper car too often.
Now, your job is to make the case as to why I need the E63 more than the other two vehicles. As for you performance junkies, forget you ever heard of ethanol blend fuels. I drive everywhere and E30+ is not always available. I've had my truck in 37 states and will continue to make those trips. Despite enhanced performance, ethanol is not for me. Please do not bring it into this discussion.
Last edited by markcwq; Jul 6, 2021 at 05:11 AM.
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ABC is not seen as an issue on the 2012+ cars, btw. They were of course seen as a nightmare on the previous generation.




Yes, there seems to be a noticeable decline in failures with the 2012+ ABC systems. However, given my past history with ABC, I would not trust an ABC equipped car as far as I could throw it. MB looks to have ditched hydraulic based ABC on their new AMG cars and went with an Airmatic based system. That tells me everything I need to know about the old hydraulic based system that runs off a belt driven pump.




Front bumper is going to drag on everything.
Interior room is fairly nice but could be improved.
Why put a gear shift on the console if you still have to hit a button for park?
Brakes are stupid expensive.
Front bumper is going to drag on everything. Not IMO and definitely not nearly as much as C55's.
Interior room is fairly nice but could be improved. If you already set on this, there's S/ML.
Why put a gear shift on the console if you still have to hit a button for park? Ask MB. If don't like it, there's still S/ML.
Brakes are stupid expensive. And S63's not?
It's fast, comfortable, AWD, pretty , reliable and insanely tunable.
Why you don't need it:
If you are on budget, if you can't afford the tires and if you don't have a nice set of teeth ( every time you mash that paddle, people around you would even , see your Molars too)
Last edited by C2 Turbo; Jul 8, 2021 at 06:33 PM.
Yes, the E63 "fixes" the dislikes with the C55. So do the other cars I mentioned.
As for cost, all three are easily within my budget. That includes expected repairs. Smiles per dollar still enters the equation. None of the three are needy money grubbers but each will have its associated cost of ownership. The E and S will have somewhat lower cost on tires but the brakes will more than make up the difference. The ML will drink the most fuel. The S has far more stuff to bite you when it fails.
It's like being in the dating scene again. Sure, she's hot but if she's a needy and fussy thing she might not be worth the effort.
As for cost, all three are easily within my budget. That includes expected repairs. Smiles per dollar still enters the equation. None of the three are needy money grubbers but each will have its associated cost of ownership. The E and S will have somewhat lower cost on tires but the brakes will more than make up the difference. The ML will drink the most fuel. The S has far more stuff to bite you when it fails.
It's like being in the dating scene again. Sure, she's hot but if she's a needy and fussy thing she might not be worth the effort.
E63 (more than the other two) preserves what I assume you like the most about C55 (besides that it is "dirt cheap to own") - fun to drive. As an W166ML63 owner myself, let me assure you that ML63 is absolutely fun to drive...just not nearly on the level of E63 (physics come to play).
Keep in mind that seats of both E63 and ML63 are more confining with much more pronounced bolsters (especially on bottom) than S63, but coming from C55 should still be OK. Unlike E63, ML63 does not have active multicontour driver seat as standard, but even as an option - no active bolsters (on a positive side ML also gets front passenger multicontour seat). As with all SUVs, ML63 does have a higher seating position and hence surround view advantage over cars, if this is important to you (it is to me). E63 has much more front leg room than ML63, but you're coming from C55...
Last edited by threeMBs; Jul 9, 2021 at 08:20 AM.





