W212 AMG Discuss the W212 AMG's such as the E63

Tell me why I need an E63 in my life

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Old Jul 4, 2021 | 02:48 PM
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Tell me why I need an E63 in my life

I'm strongly considering a new daily driver. The C55 that fills the role now is an absolute riot to drive but it's a bit tight for my 50 year old 6' 230 lb frame.
Before we get into the cars, a quick bit about me. I'm a hot rodder, machinist, fabricator, and gunsmith with my daytime job being a parts guy at a non-MB dealer. My other vehicles are a 1992 Dodge D250 Cummins truck and a 1972 Chrysler Imperial with a 541 cubic inch (8.9 liter) V8. The Imperial and truck are the same length, each being nearly 2 feet longer than a W221. I'm no stranger to performance. My last toy was a 3700 lb 1965 Plymouth with a twin turbocharged fuel injected 440 (7.2 liter) and S55 brakes.
My experience and familiarity with MB vehicles is extensive. I spent 15 years working the parts counter at Mercedes stores, was Master certified, and my training transcript holds more than 180 entries. I have no problem doing my own maintenance and repair. For things I'm not set up to do, I have good friends in the MB world and still get a significant discount on parts. My commute to work is about 20 minutes these days but I tend to drive quite a bit.

Current daily C55 pros:
Rock solid reliability.
Fun to drive.
Not bad on gas (16 city 22 highway).
Dirty cheap to own.

Cons:
A bit cramped inside.
Gets claustrophobic on a road trip.
Not enough power.
Near zero aftermarket support.
Drags the front bumper on everything in sight.

If I replace my C55 it will be with another AMG. I'm currently looking at a 2011+ S63, 2012+ E63, and 2012+ ML63. All can be had for similar money.

The contenders:
The ML63 has the nicest seating position (I prefer fairly upright, not slammed back like a 2 dollar hooker showing her goods) and best visibility. It's the lowest performer by far and the side steps Stick out enough to be in the way but not far enough to be useful. Brakes, unlike the other two, are pretty cheap. Airmatic can pose issues but they're fairly solid in the long run. Features and options are on par with the 212 but fall well behind the 221. MPG is the worst of the bunch. Light towing is possible, it'll have room for hauling stuff, and I'll never drag the bumper again!

E63 is where the performance is found. Silly fast in stock form and crazy fast with a tune. Seating position is not bad but the top of the door trim panel is a bit awkward for someone like me who rests his arm up there. Brakes are nearly as expensive as the S-class. Reliability is average since the car is lacking many of the features that make a 221 special. MPG is the best of this bunch but not by a significant margin. Trunk space is up slightly from the 203. AWD is available and decreases the brake rotor cost but increases the opportunity for driveline failure. Bumper dragging is to be expected.

S63 is a very nice place to be. It's a lumbering beast compared to the C55 and even the E63 but not too bad in the grand scheme of things. Comfort is very high, assuming the pneumatic seats are working. If I go this route it will be equipped with the rear seat package and night view assist. Because I can. Cost of ownership is very high. Replace an ABC pump lately? Highway cruising is hard to beat and it's not bad around town. A bit less maneuverable than the others when it comes to tight spots but still demands far less acreage than the Imperial or truck. This car has the most going for it which means it's also got the highest chance of failure and resulting high cost of ownership. Even more if I get silly and splurge for an S65. The trunk space is quite nice. Yes, you can poke the button to raise the car over parking curbs, but let's face it, I'm going to end up dragging the bumper car too often.

Now, your job is to make the case as to why I need the E63 more than the other two vehicles. As for you performance junkies, forget you ever heard of ethanol blend fuels. I drive everywhere and E30+ is not always available. I've had my truck in 37 states and will continue to make those trips. Despite enhanced performance, ethanol is not for me. Please do not bring it into this discussion.
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Old Jul 4, 2021 | 04:14 PM
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The normally aspirated amg cars and the forced induction cars are kind of a different reliability. I have 3 55 cars (sl cls and e, and they certainly require more attention than the normally aspirated amg cars I have had. I had a c32 that didn’t really give me issues.

Out of the 3 the e63 is going to probably the most reliable, but I would guess not as reliable as your c55. I really want an w212 e63, but am getting tired of the German engineering issues. I almost bought an amg gt, but realized when it broke( whether active motor mounts or transmission issues) I wasn’t going to be happy.

When you get into the cars with hydraulic and air suspension, the reliability changes.
As for the s65 that’s a whole different universe of cost and reliability, which shouldn’t be based on the reliability factor of your c55. You would really have to love the car to put up with 12 cylinders.

Last edited by cdk4219; Jul 4, 2021 at 04:17 PM.
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Old Jul 4, 2021 | 05:16 PM
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I am well aware that the reliability is going to take a hit. Nothing with an AMG badge will outlive an M113 and 722.6 with steel spring suspension.

The M157 shares the oil in the harness issue with the M278 as well as the tendency to burn the #5 exhaust valve when things start to go south. Then, there's the plastic coolant lines that need attention when they age. They're more of those DON'T TOUCH THAT bits cause they're fine until you touch them.

As for suspension, Airmatic is usually easier to live with than ABC with the exception of the 212 rear shocks. Arnott fixed that gotta-drop-the-subframe issue.

I really long for the S65 but those things are time bombs. Other than the coil packs the V12 itself is rock solid. The rest of the stuff that comes with those cars is what will burn you down. However, there's nothing like a smooth running V12. The design cancels out primary and secondary harmonics in the running engine that can't be replicated with fewer cylinders.
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Old Jul 4, 2021 | 09:08 PM
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The V12 is awesome but owning a car with ABC is like dating a super model with a cocaine addiction. Just no. I've had two of them and both have had ABC issues like clockwork. Love the engine hate the ABC. ML63 with the M157 is the one I'd go with and yes the mileage is very poor but it is uber comfortable on long trips and has great utility with enough sportiness to make you happy. Get a tune and or upgraded turbos and it will be plenty fast.
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Old Jul 5, 2021 | 04:55 PM
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I see you posted this in all the forums...and i suspect each forum is full of people that are just going to recommended the car they have.
Anyway the engines are the same in all the cars you're looking at, Id suggest just go test drive each one and pick the one that you like the best, fit in the best.
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Old Jul 5, 2021 | 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kenneyd
I see you posted this in all the forums...and i suspect each forum is full of people that are just going to recommended the car they have.
Anyway the engines are the same in all the cars you're looking at, Id suggest just go test drive each one and pick the one that you like the best, fit in the best.
Yes, I posted this in each of the three forums. I expected cheering for each model in it's own forum but there have been crossovers.

As expected, the 221 guys started chanting V12. Yeah, they want to spend my money owning one of those but not spend their own money on one.

I've driven each of them back when they were new but no recent experience with the aging cars. What complicates things is the ML being surprisingly difficult to find in the DFW area. Otherwise I would have recent seat time.

The E63 really appeals to my hot rod side. At the same time, the S appeals to my preference for a nice place to be. That's the angel and devil fight I have going on. However, the rational side of me is saying the ML is where I need to be. I'm a single guy with three vehicles: a work truck, a gargantuan road crushing luxo barge, and a light zippy little kart for a daily.
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Old Jul 5, 2021 | 10:07 PM
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Because it will bring you happiness.

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Old Jul 6, 2021 | 01:29 AM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by feets
I'm strongly considering a new daily driver. The C55 that fills the role now is an absolute riot to drive but it's a bit tight for my 50 year old 6' 230 lb frame.
Before we get into the cars, a quick bit about me. I'm a hot rodder, machinist, fabricator, and gunsmith with my daytime job being a parts guy at a non-MB dealer. My other vehicles are a 1992 Dodge D250 Cummins truck and a 1972 Chrysler Imperial with a 541 cubic inch (8.9 liter) V8. The Imperial and truck are the same length, each being nearly 2 feet longer than a W221. I'm no stranger to performance. My last toy was a 3700 lb 1965 Plymouth with a twin turbocharged fuel injected 440 (7.2 liter) and S55 brakes.
My experience and familiarity with MB vehicles is extensive. I spent 15 years working the parts counter at Mercedes stores, was Master certified, and my training transcript holds more than 180 entries. I have no problem doing my own maintenance and repair. For things I'm not set up to do, I have good friends in the MB world and still get a significant discount on parts. My commute to work is about 20 minutes these days but I tend to drive quite a bit.

Current daily C55 pros:
Rock solid reliability.
Fun to drive.
Not bad on gas (16 city 22 highway).
Dirty cheap to own.

Cons:
A bit cramped inside.
Gets claustrophobic on a road trip.
Not enough power.
Near zero aftermarket support.
Drags the front bumper on everything in sight.

If I replace my C55 it will be with another AMG. I'm currently looking at a 2011+ S63, 2012+ E63, and 2012+ ML63. All can be had for similar money.

The contenders:
The ML63 has the nicest seating position (I prefer fairly upright, not slammed back like a 2 dollar hooker showing her goods) and best visibility. It's the lowest performer by far and the side steps Stick out enough to be in the way but not far enough to be useful. Brakes, unlike the other two, are pretty cheap. Airmatic can pose issues but they're fairly solid in the long run. Features and options are on par with the 212 but fall well behind the 221. MPG is the worst of the bunch. Light towing is possible, it'll have room for hauling stuff, and I'll never drag the bumper again!

E63 is where the performance is found. Silly fast in stock form and crazy fast with a tune. Seating position is not bad but the top of the door trim panel is a bit awkward for someone like me who rests his arm up there. Brakes are nearly as expensive as the S-class. Reliability is average since the car is lacking many of the features that make a 221 special. MPG is the best of this bunch but not by a significant margin. Trunk space is up slightly from the 203. AWD is available and decreases the brake rotor cost but increases the opportunity for driveline failure. Bumper dragging is to be expected.

S63 is a very nice place to be. It's a lumbering beast compared to the C55 and even the E63 but not too bad in the grand scheme of things. Comfort is very high, assuming the pneumatic seats are working. If I go this route it will be equipped with the rear seat package and night view assist. Because I can. Cost of ownership is very high. Replace an ABC pump lately? Highway cruising is hard to beat and it's not bad around town. A bit less maneuverable than the others when it comes to tight spots but still demands far less acreage than the Imperial or truck. This car has the most going for it which means it's also got the highest chance of failure and resulting high cost of ownership. Even more if I get silly and splurge for an S65. The trunk space is quite nice. Yes, you can poke the button to raise the car over parking curbs, but let's face it, I'm going to end up dragging the bumper car too often.

Now, your job is to make the case as to why I need the E63 more than the other two vehicles. As for you performance junkies, forget you ever heard of ethanol blend fuels. I drive everywhere and E30+ is not always available. I've had my truck in 37 states and will continue to make those trips. Despite enhanced performance, ethanol is not for me. Please do not bring it into this discussion.
If you need to do such a long write up for someone else to convince you, 1) either you're financially not prepared, or 2) it's not the car for you and you have doubts. If not, just follow your heart ❤️.

Last edited by markcwq; Jul 6, 2021 at 05:11 AM.
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Old Jul 6, 2021 | 08:06 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by markcwq
If you need to do such a long write up for someone else to convince you, 1) either you're financially not prepared, or 2) it's not the car for you and you have doubts. If not, just follow your heart ❤️.
Fair assumption but not quite correct. I'm good financially. My heart wants an S65 but compromises with the S63. Lust wants the go fast E63. My logical side is steering me to the ML63. I thought I'd let the owners of those cars have a little input.
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Old Jul 6, 2021 | 02:00 PM
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m157 SL63
Another possible option - the 2013+ SL63 is as fast as the w212 E63 while considered more luxurious. It also can be a convertible when wanted. It does have only 2 seats, but you've said you're single, so maybe that doesn't matter.

ABC is not seen as an issue on the 2012+ cars, btw. They were of course seen as a nightmare on the previous generation.
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Old Jul 6, 2021 | 03:31 PM
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The SL is a non-starter. I got the coupe thing out of my system with my old SRT6. I want a back seat.
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Old Jul 6, 2021 | 03:59 PM
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Now really isn't the time to buy a car, especially a 10 year old AMG, if you can avoid it. The used car market is just insane and everything is priced really high. So if you do bite, hope you plan on keeping it for quite a while.

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Old Jul 6, 2021 | 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by markcwq
If you need to do such a long write up for someone else to convince you, 1) either you're financially not prepared, or 2) it's not the car for you and you have doubts. If not, just follow your heart ❤️.
couldn't agree more
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Old Jul 6, 2021 | 08:43 PM
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Interesting comment on the ABC and there is some truth there. Heard the same thing from the owners of the 2005's when they said their models don't have ABC issues. Then heard the same thing about the owners of the 2008 models with ABC. Now, it's interesting that I'm hearing it about the 2012+ models. ABC problems are all about time/mileage/heat. It will fail given time/mileage and heat destroys the rubber lines. One hose bursts and you have toasted your entire system and they have not figured out how to eliminate blown hoses. The hose blows and the pump grenades itself sending tiny metal particles throughout the system. It creates a domino effect that is the gift that keeps on giving.

Yes, there seems to be a noticeable decline in failures with the 2012+ ABC systems. However, given my past history with ABC, I would not trust an ABC equipped car as far as I could throw it. MB looks to have ditched hydraulic based ABC on their new AMG cars and went with an Airmatic based system. That tells me everything I need to know about the old hydraulic based system that runs off a belt driven pump.
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Old Jul 6, 2021 | 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CarHopper
Now really isn't the time to buy a car, especially a 10 year old AMG, if you can avoid it. The used car market is just insane and everything is priced really high. So if you do bite, hope you plan on keeping it for quite a while.
I'm in the auto industry and know about the recent spike in prices. I expect prices to peak in the next few weeks and be in decline by October. Then, we'll have a year or so of prices holding before they bump again. This assumes politicians and the EPA don't wreck things.

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Old Jul 8, 2021 | 02:38 PM
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I had a conversation with a car buddy recently, and we agreed that the E63 AMG platform is almost the perfect car to do most of what you need to do in real life. It is not too big, yet not too small. Tons of power wrapped in an understated exterior. Wonderfully luxurious interior and amenities, and able to cover huge chunks of mileage at high speeds all in comfort and quiet. I had a C63-S and a CLK63 Black Series, and would have had an S63 several years ago, but it literally would not fit into my garage (LOL!). But between them all, I always felt that the E63 AMG has been the best balance of everything AMG stands for. Which may account for why I now have (2) of them, and my buddy as an E63 AMG Wagon.
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Old Jul 8, 2021 | 03:22 PM
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S212/M5T/Z31/240Z/3rd gen Tacoma
Tell me why you wouldn't want an e63.
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Old Jul 8, 2021 | 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RVAE34
Tell me why you wouldn't want an e63.
The door panel height and shape are not in the best position for someone who has rested their elbow on the door for 35 years.

Front bumper is going to drag on everything.

Interior room is fairly nice but could be improved.

Why put a gear shift on the console if you still have to hit a button for park?

Brakes are stupid expensive.
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Old Jul 8, 2021 | 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by feets
The door panel height and shape are not in the best position for someone who has rested their elbow on the door for 35 years. Perfectly comfortable to me, but this is only for you to know and decide.

Front bumper is going to drag on everything. Not IMO and definitely not nearly as much as C55's.

Interior room is fairly nice but could be improved. If you already set on this, there's S/ML.

Why put a gear shift on the console if you still have to hit a button for park? Ask MB. If don't like it, there's still S/ML.

Brakes are stupid expensive. And S63's not?
Based on your requirements in the initial post, E63 "fixes" everything you do not like about C55. If cost is an issues, pass on 63 AMGs.
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Old Jul 8, 2021 | 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by threeMBs
Based on your requirements in the initial post, E63 "fixes" everything you do not like about C55. If cost is an issues, pass on 63 AMGs.
lololol!! Perfectly put
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Old Jul 8, 2021 | 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers
Because it will bring you happiness.

What Peter says - the grin on your face every time you hit the gas and hear that exhaust note.
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Old Jul 8, 2021 | 06:23 PM
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1991 964 Turbo, 2002 Black E55, 2002 Black E55 " The Beast"- 2014 E63s
Why you need it:

It's fast, comfortable, AWD, pretty , reliable and insanely tunable.

Why you don't need it:

If you are on budget, if you can't afford the tires and if you don't have a nice set of teeth ( every time you mash that paddle, people around you would even , see your Molars too)

Last edited by C2 Turbo; Jul 8, 2021 at 06:33 PM.
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Old Jul 8, 2021 | 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by threeMBs
Based on your requirements in the initial post, E63 "fixes" everything you do not like about C55. If cost is an issues, pass on 63 AMGs.

Yes, the E63 "fixes" the dislikes with the C55. So do the other cars I mentioned.

As for cost, all three are easily within my budget. That includes expected repairs. Smiles per dollar still enters the equation. None of the three are needy money grubbers but each will have its associated cost of ownership. The E and S will have somewhat lower cost on tires but the brakes will more than make up the difference. The ML will drink the most fuel. The S has far more stuff to bite you when it fails.

It's like being in the dating scene again. Sure, she's hot but if she's a needy and fussy thing she might not be worth the effort.
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Old Jul 9, 2021 | 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by feets
Yes, the E63 "fixes" the dislikes with the C55. So do the other cars I mentioned.

As for cost, all three are easily within my budget. That includes expected repairs. Smiles per dollar still enters the equation. None of the three are needy money grubbers but each will have its associated cost of ownership. The E and S will have somewhat lower cost on tires but the brakes will more than make up the difference. The ML will drink the most fuel. The S has far more stuff to bite you when it fails.

It's like being in the dating scene again. Sure, she's hot but if she's a needy and fussy thing she might not be worth the effort.
Cost was brought up (tires, brakes, fuel) on several occasions. If it is not an issue, then let's move on to where the "beef" is.

E63 (more than the other two) preserves what I assume you like the most about C55 (besides that it is "dirt cheap to own") - fun to drive. As an W166ML63 owner myself, let me assure you that ML63 is absolutely fun to drive...just not nearly on the level of E63 (physics come to play).

Keep in mind that seats of both E63 and ML63 are more confining with much more pronounced bolsters (especially on bottom) than S63, but coming from C55 should still be OK. Unlike E63, ML63 does not have active multicontour driver seat as standard, but even as an option - no active bolsters (on a positive side ML also gets front passenger multicontour seat). As with all SUVs, ML63 does have a higher seating position and hence surround view advantage over cars, if this is important to you (it is to me). E63 has much more front leg room than ML63, but you're coming from C55...

Last edited by threeMBs; Jul 9, 2021 at 08:20 AM.
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Old Jul 9, 2021 | 11:15 AM
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This is amusing
IMHO OP is not looking for any advice; he pursues the attention and needs an ego boost.
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Slideshow: Faster charging, longer range, and a controversial steer-by-wire system define the latest evolution of Mercedes-Benz EQS.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-15 10:35:34


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5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve

Slideshow: These overlooked Mercedes-Benz models never got the spotlight, but they quietly delivered more than most remember.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-13 19:35:45


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Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping

Slideshow: A well-used 1991 Mercedes-Benz 300D with more than one million miles is now looking for a new owner, and it still appears ready for more.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-10 10:05:15


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10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used

Slideshow: From bulletproof sedans to surprisingly tough SUVs, these Mercedes models proved that the three-pointed star can go the distance.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-08 09:55:49


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