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Videos I found on YT at the time were intercut as advert by Regal Autosport, very helpful, but not full process. Hope new material appeared since then. Mine is the Wavetrac 48.309.185WK. The spreader is needed to install the circlips (snap rings). Is there another way to ensure preload?
My high tech case spreader sends warmest regards to this fine forum.
This is the first I have heard of a case spreader being needed for the install. I've found a few videos of wavetrac installs in C63/e63's and no one needed a spreader. Who was the manufacturer of your LSD?
OP, I’m guessing you’re gonna undertake the install yourself?
I had planned on it. I've installed lockers in my Superduty and other cars, and didn't see anything that scared me away....the only issue I saw was the potential down time needed if I had to order shims if my installed ones didn't work and my local MB didn't have any.
Thanks! I actually found that thread when searching for installation instruction.
Just so I understand, because I'm seeing both words used:
1. There are different thickness shims AND different thickness snap rings?
2. Shims to adjust preload, snap rings to adjust backlash?
I can't seem to find rear diff rebuild info in the WIS
Thanks! I actually found that thread when searching for installation instruction.
Just so I understand, because I'm seeing both words used:
1. There are different thickness shims AND different thickness snap rings?
Yes (might take a while, but you may be able to use a larger one, and sand them down in a pinch)
Originally Posted by 6_Myles
2. Shims to adjust preload on bearings. snap rings to adjust backlash?
Other way around, snap rings set primarily preload. You want to get that set first.
Then you have to keep the same thickness in shims overall to maintain that preload, but move position of the carrier side to side to set the backlash by redistributing the shim stack.
Originally Posted by 6_Myles
I can't seem to find rear diff rebuild info in the WIS?
It may not actually be in the W212 section. You may have to browse an older car with a HAG215 in the WIS.
I've seen it before, but can't tell you for sure where I sourced it. It may have been from a chrysler manual
Dealer now sells these as whole assemblies, so they focus on R&R of diff assembly.
Last edited by crconsulting; Aug 29, 2022 at 12:56 PM.
Correct, Autotech is the best supplier of the circlips in the US I was able to find. I have to check what left from my project... Piece meal. My original circlips were 4.20 mm p/n A2209941141 and 4.10 mm p/n A2209940941. Let me know if you need p/n for anything else.
Regarding backlash and preload advice, the optimal position for both is determined by the contact pattern and tolerance specs. This is where we mark gears with yellow paint. A properly-supplied specialist will have a variety of circlips and shims on hand to choose their optimal combination. Need knowledge, skill, proper tools, proper supplies, parts, time, and money.
Say most of us have parts, time, and money. What many enthusiasts lack is the other items. I agree with the OP that this LSD job is not difficult for technically inclined... provided the pre-requisites are accounted for. I overcame most hurdles, but struggled with one-time use tools (such as spreader, recessed pinion socket) and supplies (such as shims and circlips). Lots of sweat investment to drop the exhaust, rear suspension on one side, carrier; did it single-handedly in my residential garage.
Agreed. It really does help to have a lift at my house, along with other cars to drive while this one is down, and not having to remove/reset the pinion takes ALOT of the high level work out of it. I definitely do not want to spend $600 on a one-time-use tool....so I will try yours or even try modifying that amazon one for $100.
As @maxusa noted, autotech will be a good place to get them. (they come from Wavetrac directly).
I’ve always ground/sanded my own from the standard (largest) uncut size, (same with shims) but have access to a surface grinder which makes that process quicker. I also believe those are probably standard industrial metric C-clip sizes. Ground by Wavetrac (and even Mercedes)
Unless you’re doing these day in and day out, probably best to order the correct size(s) already cut. All it will cost you is time.
This thread also has good info on snap rings (c-clips) and setup etc… https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...lsd-setup.html
What you want to make sure is your dial indicator base and setup are as rigid as possible. No flex, It will be repeatable if it is rigid. That’s why I like the flat bar spreader. It’s easier to get your mag base to sit flat on it. But @maxusa ’s setup achieves the same purpose at a low cost. Just mind your indicator setup. And as noted, check contact pattern…
Good Luck.
Last edited by crconsulting; Aug 29, 2022 at 05:13 PM.
Thank you both. This has been quite helpful. I will try to do a DIY write-up so that we can put all this info in one place, for future use. Does anyone have the backlash spec handy? I’ll obviously try to match existing, but just in case the existing is out of spec from the factory.
Does anyone have the backlash spec handy? I’ll obviously try to match existing, but just in case the existing is out of spec from the factory.
Btw…
just looked at my notes, the most complete parts list, service procedure, and specs I’ve found is buried in the 300TE ( 124090 ) WIS and EPC sections. If you have access look under 124090 chassis.
Those were used as taxis in Europe so they probably had to rebuild quite a few diffs.😀
As mentioned, be sure to check your gear pattern (existing and new) if you can, along with those backlash specs listed on the attached WIS
attached is a section from the WIS along with the parts list from the EPC.
Last edited by crconsulting; Aug 29, 2022 at 08:26 PM.
It's a pretty straight forward swap, a lot of people seem to over complicate things. lol
None of these guys in the video are showing any detail on setup. Just bolt it together and you're good to go....
(they show assembly and backlash measuring, but not how they determined shim and c clip adjustments) “backlash is measured and adjusted if necessary”. They don’t want to bore you with the details 😀
I can tell you from experience, not watching youtube videos, you can probably get away with just slammin’ it together a few times (maybe), without getting bit in the ***....
If you have the car/diff apart, it’s so much easier to take the time to do it right the first time, especially if you're not trying to turn a profit.
That is unless you like doing things twice.
I've watched every video I could find on c63 and e63 differential upgrades/repairs/rebuilds, and I have spent a decent amount of time researching this to get squared away....not a single one mentioned a case spreader, or setting bearing preload via clips first and then adjusting backlash via shims. Until this thread I had it in my mind it was a simple remove/replace diff and check backlash because that is what all those videos show.
not a single one mentioned a case spreader, or setting bearing preload via clips first and then adjusting backlash via shims. Until this thread I had it in my mind it was a simple remove/replace diff and check backlash because that is what all those videos show.
Most of those videos are edited so as to give you a quick overview of the procedures. They’re not necessarily a step by step manual. No one wants to watch a 3 hour video. And to be fair, the carrier dimensions “should” be close, but sometimes they’re not….
Notice the videos section posted say “backlash is measured and adjusted if necessary”. And show just a quick clip of them measuring but then doesn’t show them adjusting anything 😀
It’s your call whether you’re willing to chance it. It could be fine. I and others, have posted the info to try to help you (or anyone in the future) attempting to do this to factory specifications. It would be irresponsible for me to tell someone on a forum to “wing it” looking for help on the proper way to set these HAG215 diffs.
Many folks have “slammed it” and been fine. Many haven’t. The carrier should be machined to OEM specification and in theory be a bolt in. Experience says that’s regularly not the case.
Good Luck and let us know how it goes👍
Last edited by crconsulting; Aug 29, 2022 at 10:21 PM.
Agreed. I would have been fine if a video said to 'check bearing preload with a case spreader to this spec via clips' and 'then set backlash via moving the shims around'. I would have known what to do there. But none of them even talk about it at all.
Agreed. I would have been fine if a video said to 'check bearing preload with a case spreader to this spec via clips' and 'then set backlash via moving the shims around'. I would have known what to do there. But none of them even talk about it at all.
There’s no wrong answer here, you have all the info to make the call you’re going to be comfortable with. “It’s only wrong if something goes wrong” is a common saying in some shops 😀
If you read the WIS section I attached and all the links to those threads where individuals used the case spreader & their rationales. It should give you an idea of what’s involved to do the job to factory specs.. It’s always tough if you have to buy a bunch of tooling for one job. I get that too. I think you’ll still come out ahead $$$ wise and more importantly you’ll be confident it will be done right. Unfortunately, just because you bring it to a shop/dealer doesn’t always mean they’ll do it right either ☹️
Good Luck.
Last edited by crconsulting; Aug 29, 2022 at 10:27 PM.
My resulting backlash measured 0.00375" rounded up to the edge of tolerance. Same for the preload after reducing one circlip - close enough. I declared it acceptable. Hope this helps.
This poster from Weber State University explains how to interpret the contact pattern... toe and hill contact. See attached file and the linked video. Hope this helps.
None of these guys in the video are showing any detail on setup. Just bolt it together and you're good to go....
(they show assembly and backlash measuring, but not how they determined shim and c clip adjustments) “backlash is measured and adjusted if necessary”. They don’t want to bore you with the details 😀
I can tell you from experience, not watching youtube videos, you can probably get away with just slammin’ it together a few times (maybe), without getting bit in the ***....
If you have the car/diff apart, it’s so much easier to take the time to do it right the first time, especially if you're not trying to turn a profit.
That is unless you like doing things twice.
I wouldn't worry about it too much, I've done a lot of LSD swaps and rebuilds and most of the time they come within specs. You can easily tell by hand if you'll need adjustments.
Most recent rebuild I did was on my race truck with full pinion, bearings and seals with a Detroit Locker. No adjustments were needed.
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