Yes, and if you can provide evidence that it's for something else, please explain. The conspiracy theory is not that the two stage oil pump is there for improved fuel economy. No, the conspiracy theory is that it's NOT there for fuel economy and we're all crazy, or dumb, or uneducated, or something else.
Yeah this looks so different. Barely recognizable!
Who is discounting anything in WIS? I am using WIS to understand how the adjuster works and that the oil pump solenoid is for fuel economy. Where have I been inconsistent?
Can we agree that the stock oiling system (MOD-0) has lower oil pressure at idle than MOD-1?
I assume so but I haven't tested.
Can we agree on what that MOD 0 oil PSI at idle would be? (perhaps JR’s video?)
Hot idle? Cold idle? Which oil viscosity? How many miles on the engine? We do know that below 2 bar when hot is likely based on the cam adjuster response description in WIS.
Can we agree on a an idle PSI for MOD-1? (perhaps JR’s video?)
That would be nice but see above. I would expect higher in every given condition.
Can we agree that MOD-1 improves low end drivability upon unplugging?
Yes. While not every single person has experienced this, it seems the vast majority have.
Can we agree that the oil control valve routes oil to passages in the VVT camshaft adjusters?
Not specific enough. The oil control valve that the adjuster magnet is actuating? Of course.
Can we agree that oil control valve has oil pressure fed to it directly via the internal oil galley/passage of the camshaft?
Yes.
Can we agree the magnet solenoid has some control of the oil control valve?
Uh, yeah. Otherwise the entire cam timing system would not be under the control of the ECM and would instead peg at the limits. Which it doesn't do.
Can we agree that oil squirters are pointed to underside of piston crownn?
Yes, as they are in every other piston squirter application that I know of.
Now please go back and refute my recent posts point by point so I can understand where I am wrong. I eagerly await your theory. The best I can figure is you are in the camp that unplugging skews cam timing so much that the engine produces more torque than it should, since there is more oil pressure than there should be at the cam adjusters. There is ample evidence that this is not correct. For example:
1) When oil pressure reaches 2 bar, the cam adjusters operate and are in control of cam timing by altering the PWM signal to the magnet. This is obviously true because oil pressure varies with RPM so the system would HAVE to be capable of positive control under a range of conditions.
2) No one has received a cam timing code after unplugging, because cam timing is not operating out of spec. The reason we don't see a cam timing code BEFORE unplugging is because of the trouble code diagnostic logic. When oil pressure is too low, the cam adjuster is not operational and they are in the locked condition. Via the cam position sensors, the ECM knows this. I am sure if you raised RPM enough and the cam adjusters were still not responding, the ECM would throw a code but I don't know where the threshold is. I am sure there is plenty of slop to account for engine wear.
Here are some engine logs of cam timing. I recorded cam timing commanded vs actual and then plotted the delta between the two values to see how good the system is at keeping up with the command under dynamic engine conditions. This was in June 2024 and I unplugged in November 2023, about 9,000 miles ago.
What's my point? That the ECM has GENERAL positive control over cam timing over a range of RPMs (and thus oil pressures). It's not on or off. And back to the point of this thread: with more oil pressure behind the cam adjusters, the system is able to work more effectively, and reach the desired cam timing more responsively AND come out of lock mode at a lower RPM and thus deliver adjusted/calibrated/commanded cam timing that's optimal for performance. This is all there is to the cam adjuster theory.
Kev: I stand corrected.... you too have great data contribution - Txs.
Let's see how real camshafts actuation works.
First we see all 4x positioning at various timings angles then Kevin reveals the positional errors... that's a nugget!! left side bank
right side pairs
> The smart section!!
This shows exactly the marginal positioning accuracy that MOD options help.
We can clearly see the delta for all 4x cams under various operations.
The significance of that data is like the misfiring count for combustions.
We've seen these large errors are responsible for detuning more than the camshafts logic.
> The data plots reveal :
UN-EVENESS between L/R banks: ouch!
small errors: average 2°
large errors: up to 10° <<<<
> Things I don't know :
the actual setup: MOD-0 vs. MOD-1 vs. MOD-X
what Bank is what ??
left error rate
right error rate
Let's look closer... wide errors... ouch!
The average non-stop error rate is about
then there are wild over-shoots:
Extreme errors
> What does this do: LEAN/LAGGY throttle!
Erroneous AIR INTAKE control directly corrupts FUEL INJECTION maps. Unstable air yields lean fuel.
These fault charts are computed values because ECU does not know directly where camshafts are located.
Cam positions are computed in relation to the high-resolution crank tics...
The more cams get lost the more ECU need to to re-synch and catch up
> Stock oil...
PPL may have noticed their engine+tranny respond better with fresh oil than before service with watery 10kMi oil?
Nothing to do with lube... timings only.
The smart squirters are a new topic.... let's see where that one goes ??
All I know, I am on my way to FREAKING GAINESVILLE today to see the NOT "Smart Squirter" as my wifes kid knocked up some rando who is currently delivering an anchor.......
All I know, I am on my way to FREAKING GAINESVILLE today to see the NOT "Smart Squirter" as my wifes kid knocked up some rando who is currently delivering an anchor.......
I wrote my last post early this morning, reflected, and extended an olive branch to CR via PM. He apparently read this PM first, then responded with a whole bunch of defamatory stuff, much of which surrounding my workbench WHICH IS NOT A LAB (geez). I do grease monkey stuff on that - I had a strut in a vice. Not exactly high science.
However, I still want to follow through on my PM so I'm not going to respond in kind. I know this conversation would go better in person, so I'm willing to grant water under the bridge if warranted.
Instead I'm going to present some evidence.
Left intake cam actuation. Resting (locked) position is 46 degrees. The test wants the engine warmed up (176F anyway), hold revs between 3,000 and 3,500 (lots of oil pressure, and I'm unplugged running 5W-50), and press the actuation button. It wants cam timing to jump into the controlled range of 0 to 8 degrees. If it does, the test passes. It passes here.
More clearly recorded version of left intake cam actuation. Same as the other one but I set camera zoom to 1.0 and used a different screen in Xentry, but it's the same test.
And a final video showing how Xentry has a helpful graph that shows cam "specified" timing (means commanded in my terminology) vs actual, also versus RPM. What this shows is that at a low idle, timing defaults to resting position. Basically as soon as I touch the throttle, it wants to start controlling cam timing.
What does all this mean? It means that the ECM is in positive control of the cam basically under every condition but low idle (actually commanded at low idle was the resting position, a nod that hot idle oil pressure can be too low to adjust cam timing, though my engine probably has enough with MOD 1 and 5W-50). CR is claiming the opposite, that the only time the ECM could control timing is when oil pressure is under 20 psi or something. He has it backwards, and this data clearly reflects that. And is being REALLY stubborn about it. Once again: cam timing works just like WIS says!! There is no possible way that the cam adjuster operates on centrifugal principles instead of being computer controlled (by a solenoid that controls oil passages which ultimately adjust the cam phase). There is no possible way that the cam adjuster magnet solenoid is "overridden" by oil pressure and thereby not able to control oil flow above 20 psi or whatever. Total misinformation and FUD. That needs to stop. I just demonstrated the function of the system installed in a vehicle. That totally overrules an individual component test on a bench, which, as we now see, can be taken out of context to "prove" something that isn't actually true. Kinda scary if you think about it.
Bonus theory: the reason WIS wants 3,000 to 3,500 rpm is to make sure that THERE IS ENOUGH OIL PRESSURE to properly complete the test and verify cam adjuster/timing operation. But CR says too much oil pressure means the ECM can't control anything! lol
He also mentioned concern about detonation. Sure, fine, we agree. However, detonation conditions are under heavy load. At 3500+ rpm OR heavy load, the stock behavior of the oil pump solenoid is to close (or deactivate, same as unplugged). What does this mean? It means under detonation conditions, with MOD 1, oil pressure is the same as MOD 0. Even if cam timing worked how he said (it doesn't), we aren't changing oil pressure response during detonation conditions. So the risk there is unchanged. Can we move on now?
Last item: I have no problem at all updating the FAQ in post 1 as more theory is turned into measured objective truth. I am happy to do that. I am even willing to reverse any claims made if empirical evidence shows otherwise! But so far, I don't think I have given any bad or inaccurate information about this topic. And to others reading, please think critically about what I have presented and ask questions if needed.
Brilliant....
With more holidays around the corner experimenters can celebrate well oiled engines.
For stock oilers we've got a friendly shortcut. reliable rebuild kit
For ppl plagued with the scheduled rattling phasers you can now UPGRADE just the wear items - A few REBUILD KITS are available.
The OE parts are built for carefully limited lifespan.
Now there's NO need to waste nearly good VVT gears.
You can upgrade matching steel hardness to disable future failures... saves on long repair down time!
This honest upgrade is using heat treated + coated steel plate + lock-pins.
The steel & pins are engineered to work well together instead of engineered to fail. The difference is called RELIABILITY. (Lookup "Six Sigma" managed-quality science)
Thank God for relief!
upgraded parts quality
A Canadian company is now marketing premium rebuild kits... not too cheap!
better deals out there? Pls let everyone know.
(**NO affiliation but Canadians rock everyday!**)
> THE BOTTOM LINE...
STOCK minimal oil pressure guarantees VVT built-in weakness materialize.
That's fine, transportation business thrive on service charges but basic factory de-tuned performance are now an option.
MOD Options are....
MOD-X: no VVT errors with stock locks no longer wasted out.
I wrote my last post early this morning, reflected, and extended an olive branch to CR via PM.
He apparently read this PM first.
LOL Seriously? An open attempt at manipulation of perception in this thread?
So passive aggressive….
You’ve basically turned your PM into a tool now. I come here to help people with their issues. I don’t really need help, though sometimes it’s nice to have conversations with people who have a comprehensive knowledge and are passionate.
But this place has officially reached CULT status.
You obviously don’t know when or if I even read your message. I get all those PM’s via email. You understand of course, as I stated originally, I have several other things more important in the fire and multiple technical PMs and emails I still need to respond to from other people right?
Especially since I had the courtesy to responded fairly quickly to your post
Quote:
Originally Posted by crconsulting
Look buddy, I got your PM, so bear with me for a bit until I get some free time. I have a few other PM’s I need to answer first, hopefully, things will calm down here in a day or so (hopefully).
I responded to YOUR snarky post, as I wanted to give you a courtesy of a timely response and it was early morning here. LOL YOU POSTED FIRST!
Plus now, the time I planned to respond to your PM this morning is now squandered responding to the same exact nonsense. You’ve now wasted more bandwidth (and my time) in that you’ve addressed me directly in your snarky post. LOL Way to go…
Come on man, this is pretty low on my priority list. As it should be yours. Your PM says you are really busy? What happened? You may have an inflated opinion of the importance of this exchange and yourself, that I should put everything down to respond to you and how much time I should spend on this stupidity per day. This is FAR from the top of my priority list. And I’m certainly not going to put everything down including some work scheduled for friends/family.
Typically on remote technical meetings, we compare the same hardware Both locations should have the same hardware for disassembly and testing. Problem is you can’t compare hardware tests with me because you don’t have any.. Your knowledge base is based on incomplete WIS docs and your XENTRY test of your unplugged AMG engine.
Your olive branch PM sounds like it would be an extension of the nonsense happening here, That’s why I was also trying to come up with an agenda for discussion, as is typically done in remote technical hardware exploration/testing. I don’t have time to waste on going back and forth without introducing new data points. But you have no tooling. Doesn’t even look like you have an air compressor!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevm14
then responded with a whole bunch of defamatory stuff
I responded with THE TRUTH! It’s not my fault you can’t accept this. Most people agree this isn’t a safe work environment. You’re attempting to deflect the truth because of your pride. Doesn’t change THE TRUTH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevm14
I wrote my last post early this morning,
I responded to YOUR snarky post here, as I wanted to give you a courtesy of a timely response and it was early morning here. LOL YOU POSTED FIRST!
BASIC PHYSICS
HOW DOES 20 psi OF FORCE MOVE 40psi?
You can waste more bandwidth here with the same XENTRY tests over and over with your solenoid disconnected.
Your PM basically eludes, that it will be just an extension of what’s happening here. Just you now want to waste my time ON YOUR SCHEDULE.
I really don’t have time for more time sucking circle jerking.
THIS PLACE IS JUST A CULT and THIS THREAD SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN A STICKY
soon it probably won’t matter anyways… I hear thunder in the background, the Teutonic Gods are stirring.
THIS PLACE IS JUST A CULT and THIS THREAD SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN A STICKY
Many of us have enjoyed this thread as a topic and research tool. There is an "unsubscribe" button on every notification email, as well as on this forum. Seems that maybe 'left sided' political leanings might be flowing into the oil solenoid world..."I do not agree, so it should not be said, sticky or available". Again, simple solution - unsubscribe from the thread and ignore it.
Let’s clarify on this shall we, and see just how unproductive these kinds of contradictory posts are. And how the cult make this subject incomprehensible and posts same thing over and over.
LOL apparently this week, oil squirters DO PREVENT SCORING!
Kind of like the thread has finally accepted the squirters that point to the underside of piston walls AND not THRUST SIDE OF CYLINDER BORES do nothing for lubrication, but rather cool the cylinder charge.
Apparently this statement already acknowledged by Cali, now triggers selective memory.
The smart squirters are a new topic.... let's see where that one goes ??
LOL It’s not goes, IT’S BEEN!
@peterubes and everyone else here read your statement
We all witnessed this “revelation”from you.
PETER and I both commented on the backpedaling. It was obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crconsulting
Oh jeeez, that’s good to know, we wouldn’t want to move the goalpost or anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
and from the very first post (the get go) of this thread (and its nice to have everyone re adjust their perception of this "mod"
based on data, time, and ongoing healthy debate)
Early scope... later refined to EXCLUDE BORE SCORING:
Having only normal pressure allows us to bypass the immature simplicity of the firmware code. Somebody walk by and decided it would be amazing to run engines on idle oil pressure, without consideration for oil functions:
limp tensioners
limp VVT gears
superheated piston crowns
stuck carbonated rings
scored dry cylinders
—————————————————————————————————————————————————— ————————————————————————————-
Honestly you’re in so far over your head here, you can’t even keep track of your own statements. I’m really trying NOT to make you look foolish, you’re actually doing it to yourself.
Your mass posts, now over 700, filled with constant repetitive AI gibberish in an attempt to sound “knowledgeable” are actually counter productive to everyone here. You really aren’t helping your competency or understanding in all this. Nor will you actually LEARN ANYTHING. You’re progressively eroding confidence in the statements you post as seen below.
Nobody’s ever seen your shop, tools or any actual hard data you’ve registered yourself.
Yes, we understand you do component level electronic repairs, honestly you’re more skilled at component level electronics repair than I am. I DONT have a problem with that. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.
But I’ve rebuilt hundreds maybe thousands of engines. I’ve lost count it’s been so many. I’ve got a list of HUNDREDS of machine tools I’ve used and am certified on, in the automotive and industrial machining tools industry. Many MB’s and other manufacturers with VVT’s. Everything from Cosworth DFX’s, to Datsun 1600’s
The reason you’re SO FOCUSED (and probably others) on the electronic ECM control/testing is because that’s your BIAS. The reality is you’re missing so much of how the VVT operates because you’re so focused on this bias.
You’re an electronics guy we get it, but you’ve never actually rebuilt an engine with VVT, much less worked in the field. It’s really really obvious. Especially to those of us who have actually worked in the industry for many years. It’s so easy to spot. Honestly. it’s OK, but let’s not pretend you have a wealth of experience here. That would be a lie.
We’ve seen the dashboard on your car more than anything else and of course everyone else’s data you appropriate to “interpret”
Do you actually have any hands on mechanical data of your own? Or do you use what @s-pirrada called your Azz Dyno? Because you have NO ACTUAL DATA?
Posturing, by posting AI generated responses, YouTube videos and the same documents over and over ad nauseum doesn’t make you look smart. It makes you look stupid. By trying to outpost anyone who voices a different opinion than you by overcompensating thru quantity vs quality peppering of this thread, subsequently burying their legitimate posts, all point a lack of knowledge in this area.
I’m sure you’re not stupid right? So maybe this could be one of those introspective moments for you.
Seriously man, check out De Anza College. If you’re interested in attending contact me.
They have some of the best machining facilities and instructors on the west coast.
Also Skyline college is great too. It is (last time I checked) the Mercedes Training center in the Nor-Cal area. I attended that program also many years ago.
As has been discussed in the background by others, this place has been turned into a CULT like following by a few folks with virtually almost NO empiric data.
A group with extreme and unusual beliefs, often centered around obsessed leader or leaders, that may use manipulative and controlling tactics to isolate members and reinforce doctrine.
What I really want to know CALI-BOPP is, Are you sending out NIKES yet?
Honestly, you should make sure to post your contact info too.
In a few years when/if we start seeing failures, irate people (and their lawyers) with $150k cars with $30k motors will want to send you their repair invoices.
Since most of the comprehensive “research” LOL is done on normally aspirated motors too.
“Liability for online advice depends on the context, the identity of the person giving the advice, and the nature of the advice given. While platforms are largely shielded from liability for third-party content by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, individuals can be held liable for harm caused by negligent or unqualified advice. In certain fields, particularly medicine and law, giving advice online is especially risky. “
THIS MESS OF A THREAD SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN A STICKY.
Many of us have enjoyed this thread as a topic and research tool. There is an "unsubscribe" button on every notification email, as well as on this forum. Seems that maybe 'left sided' political leanings might be flowing into the oil solenoid world..."I do not agree, so it should not be said, sticky or available". Again, simple solution - unsubscribe from the thread and ignore it.
While your observations are correct. BUT, the same posters beat the drums all over Facebook and YouTube. Every help post here on MBworld responded to by a certain user is followed by “you should disconnect your solenoid”. Because it will prevent scoring.
Hope they have good liability insurance.
”Liability for online advice depends on the context, the identity of the person giving the advice, and the nature of the advice given. While platforms are largely shielded from liability for third-party content by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, individuals can be held liable for harm caused by negligent or unqualified advice. In certain fields, particularly medicine and law, giving advice online is especially risky. “
There is no ignore for site wide propaganda proliferated by these few users.
Your (and a few others) attempt to always interject politics has NOTHING TO DO WITH TRUTH IN ENGINEERING! It’s completely off topic. You have NO IDEA what anyone’s political leanings are. You assume because of Geographic location, which shows you are easily influenced.
And your response is text book CULT behavior.
You do realize you guys are a VERY FEW MINORITY. Most people who are in the field, look at this thread laugh!
But I guess some people come here for validation and rah rah rah cheerleading to affirm they’ve made the right decision because they are just GUESSING.
CULT: A group with extreme and unusual beliefs, often centered around obsessed leader or leaders, that may use manipulative and controlling tactics to isolate members and reinforce doctrine.
as I said, I hear the sound of thunder in the distance
I have a track day to prepare for this morning so have posted enough to this time suck.
No position on the flame war currently under way.
Thank you all for the massive amount of data, in all directions.
I found this thread when my car, at 160k, tossed the error code, and got my first check engine ever in my 2018 build, 2019 MY C43.
The 2019 or later will toss a code if you disconnect. We did the dummy solenoid, reset, and the car is 100%.
I did it to save $3500 in labor and taking apart the entire front end to drop the oil pan to replace the @$150 in parts.
Love the car, oil every 5k....
Resume your flame war
Let’s clarify on this shall we, and see just how unproductive these kinds of contradictory posts are. And how the cult make this subject incomprehensible and posts same thing over and over.
LOL apparently this week, oil squirters DO PREVENT SCORING!
Early scope... later refined to EXCLUDE BORE SCORING:
Having only normal pressure allows us to bypass the immature simplicity of the firmware code. Somebody walk by and decided it would be amazing to run engines on idle oil pressure, without consideration for oil functions:
limp tensioners
limp VVT gears
superheated piston crowns
stuck carbonated rings
scored dry cylinders
—————————————————————————————————————————————————— ————————————————————————————-
Honestly you’re in so far over your head here, you can’t even keep track of your own statements. I’m really trying NOT to make you look foolish, you’re actually doing it to yourself.
Your mass posts, now over 700, filled with constant repetitive AI gibberish in an attempt to sound “knowledgeable” are actually counter productive to everyone here. You really aren’t helping your competency or understanding in all this. Nor will you actually LEARN ANYTHING. You’re progressively eroding confidence in the statements you post as seen below.
Nobody’s ever seen your shop, tools or any actual hard data you’ve registered yourself.
Yes, we understand you do component level electronic repairs, honestly you’re more skilled at component level electronics repair than I am. I DONT have a problem with that. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.
But I’ve rebuilt hundreds maybe thousands of engines. I’ve lost count it’s been so many. I’ve got a list of HUNDREDS of machine tools I’ve used and am certified on, in the automotive and industrial machining tools industry. Many MB’s and other manufacturers with VVT’s. Everything from Cosworth DFX’s, to Datsun 1600’s
The reason you’re SO FOCUSED (and probably others) on the electronic ECM control/testing is because that’s your BIAS. The reality is you’re missing so much of how the VVT operates because you’re so focused on this bias.
You’re an electronics guy we get it, but you’ve never actually rebuilt an engine with VVT, much less worked in the field. It’s really really obvious. Especially to those of us who have actually worked in the industry for many years. It’s so easy to spot. Honestly. it’s OK, but let’s not pretend you have a wealth of experience here. That would be a lie.
We’ve seen the dashboard on your car more than anything else and of course everyone else’s data you appropriate to “interpret”
Do you actually have any hands on mechanical data of your own? Or do you use what @s-pirrada called your Azz Dyno? Because you have NO ACTUAL DATA?
Posturing, by posting AI generated responses, YouTube videos and the same documents over and over ad nauseum doesn’t make you look smart. It makes you look stupid. By trying to outpost anyone who voices a different opinion than you by overcompensating thru quantity vs quality peppering of this thread, subsequently burying their legitimate posts, all point a lack of knowledge in this area.
I’m sure you’re not stupid right? So maybe this could be one of those introspective moments for you.
Seriously man, check out De Anza College. If you’re interested in attending contact me.
They have some of the best machining facilities and instructors on the west coast.
Also Skyline college is great too. It is (last time I checked) the Mercedes Training center in the Nor-Cal area. I attended that program also many years ago.
As has been discussed in the background by others, this place has been turned into a CULT like following by a few folks with virtually almost NO empiric data.
ENJOY YOUR ECHO CHAMBER
CRC, you have done a fair job trying to railroad this thread with zelous spins... you did well!
Some ppl come here to help but you purposely do the opposite with misguided statements. Thanks for nothing: zero contribution...a glaring waste.
It takes special individuals to be problem solvers. We recognize you are an experienced mechanic, many of our friends are great mechanics regardless of their toolbox size.
It reflects poorly when you can't understand how camshafts are positioned... I find hard to believe you're below entry level.
The majority of professionals clearly know camshaft timings. Others should refer to WIS accurate system descriptions.
> TWO WAY STREET
MBWorld members come here swapping tips on shared issues: "could not reproduce" is not good enough when our cars are dangerously useless when quick steps are available.
Do you not find helpful when master engine builder Tasos analyzes failures ?
It would be interesting to read your genuine inputs to preserve owners from chaos.
-- Is it wrong to share "$10k oil in harness" ?
-- Do you not like well timed smooth engines ?
-- Do you mind if we experiment smooth engines ?
The one issue I have is lack of sinceretymixed with lies. You are twisting reality based on payed industry interests. I don't mind your financial interests as long as it is kept clear above the table. Make it clear you benefit rebuting my free individual contribution.
I totally support following MBWorld forum guidelines.
Do everyone a favor be honest: pay business fees to the forum that drives some of your industry revenues.
I will follow inputs from MBWorkd forum officials in the interest of harmony.
"I'm so dizzy, my head is spinning. Like a whirlpool, it never ends."
Anyone who does something they saw or read on an internet forum and refuses to take responsibility for their own decisions is a fool. There is a big difference between acting on free advice and paying or taking advice from a licensed professional.
I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. But I would find it incredible that someone would actually win a judgement against someone who said they did something that they think makes something better and it turns out it doesn't. Then again, I've seen some really whacky stuff come out of the courts.
I've seen no arm twisting here, but anyone who is thinking for unplugging their solenoid or has done so, you are responsible for your decisions and actions.
I haven't read any data or measurements from CRC yet. Or have I overlooked something? I think he's old and knows about camshaft adjustment from the early days (Cosworth and Datsun 1600S). He also seems to spam more than anyone else here. It's annoying to read his posts because I haven't gained any insight from them. No content, just a lot of chatter and insults. That's not how it should be here. Or is it a fake account?
you are responsible for your decisions and actions.
Right at 50% of our nation blame everyone for everything and take ZERO responsibility for anything at any time. Perpetual victims. Mindless lemming victims who thrive on blaming...oh, and being offended for the person who is not even in the room.
Right at 50% of our nation blame everyone for everything and take ZERO responsibility for anything at any time. Perpetual victims. Mindless lemming victims who thrive on blaming...oh, and being offended for the person who is not even in the room.
You are correct. unfortunately it’s that 50% you have to look out for. Not hating on lawyers but, sometimes it’s the lawyers themselves. Always nice to have company lawyers on retainer too. Crazy that people are being sued for giving bad online reviews now, imagine a $30,000 engine.
You guys (and me) are lucky you’re not in the medical industry!
Ever wonder why no one from Mercedes ever comments here? NDA’s.
Typically, corporate intervention comes in the form of a cease and desist. Whereas consumer liability usually comes in the form of a lawsuit for monetary damages.
BELOW are the legal guidelines with some variations typically used in the Industry.
(ITS WORTH NOTING THAT EVEN A DISCLAIMER DOES NOT SHIELD YOU FROM LAWSUITS and LIABILITY. BUT IT GIVES YOU AT LEAST A MINIMUM THIN LAYER OF PROTECTION. WHEN YOU GO TO THE DOCTOR, YOU SIGN TONS OF DISCLAIMERS/DISCLOSURES YET THEY STILL GET SUED REGULARLY. )
Providing online automotive advice carries legal risks, especially when it leads to tangible harm or damages. Liability can arise from negligence, misrepresentation, or breach of contract, particularly if the advice is given in a professional capacity or relied upon by others.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Potential Areas of Liability:
Negligence:
If your advice is careless and results in harm or damage, you could be held liable for negligence. This requires proving that you had a duty of care, breached that duty, and the breach caused the harm.
Misrepresentation:
Making false or misleading statements about automotive issues or repairs can lead to liability. This is especially true if you intentionally deceive someone or are reckless in your statements.
Breach of Contract:
If you provide advice as part of a contract (e.g., a paid consultation), failing to deliver on the agreed-upon services or standards can result in a breach of contract lawsuit.
Unfair or Deceptive Practices:
Providing advice that is intended to mislead or exploit consumers can violate consumer protection laws.
Product Liability:
If you recommend a specific product or part, and it causes harm or damage due to a defect, you could be held liable for product liability.
Criminal Liability:
In some cases, providing false or misleading information about automotive repairs could lead to criminal charges, especially if it involves fraud or theft.
Factors that Influence Liability:
Expert Status:
If you present yourself as an expert or professional, you are held to a higher standard of care.
Reliance: The more someone relies on your advice, the greater your potential liability.
Intent:
If you intentionally provide false or misleading information, your liability is likely to be greater.
Harm:
The extent of the harm caused by your advice will also influence the severity of the liability.
Location:
Laws vary by state, so understanding the specific laws in your location is important.
Mitigating Risk:
Disclaimers: Use clear disclaimers to state that your advice is not professional and should not be relied upon as such.
Be Honest and Accurate: Avoid making false or misleading statements.
Don't Guarantee Results: Avoid making promises or guarantees about outcomes.
Don't Provide Advice Beyond Your Knowledge: Only offer advice within your area of expertise.
Document Your Advice: Keep records of the advice you give and the context in which it was given.
Seek Legal Advice: If you have concerns about your potential liability, consult with an attorney.
You are correct. unfortunately it’s that 50% you have to look out for. Not hating on lawyers but, sometimes it’s the lawyers themselves. Always nice to have company lawyers on retainer too. Crazy that people are being sued for giving bad online reviews now, imagine a $30,000 engine.
You guys (and me) are lucky you’re not in the medical industry!
Ever wonder why no one from Mercedes ever comments here? NDA’s.
BELOW are the legal guidelines with some variations typically used in the Industry.
Providing online automotive advice carries legal risks, especially when it leads to tangible harm or damages. Liability can arise from negligence, misrepresentation, or breach of contract, particularly if the advice is given in a professional capacity or relied upon by others.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Potential Areas of Liability:
Negligence:
If your advice is careless and results in harm or damage, you could be held liable for negligence. This requires proving that you had a duty of care, breached that duty, and the breach caused the harm.
Misrepresentation:
Making false or misleading statements about automotive issues or repairs can lead to liability. This is especially true if you intentionally deceive someone or are reckless in your statements.
Breach of Contract:
If you provide advice as part of a contract (e.g., a paid consultation), failing to deliver on the agreed-upon services or standards can result in a breach of contract lawsuit.
Unfair or Deceptive Practices:
Providing advice that is intended to mislead or exploit consumers can violate consumer protection laws.
Product Liability:
If you recommend a specific product or part, and it causes harm or damage due to a defect, you could be held liable for product liability.
Criminal Liability:
In some cases, providing false or misleading information about automotive repairs could lead to criminal charges, especially if it involves fraud or theft.
Factors that Influence Liability:
Expert Status:
If you present yourself as an expert or professional, you are held to a higher standard of care.
Reliance: The more someone relies on your advice, the greater your potential liability.
Intent:
If you intentionally provide false or misleading information, your liability is likely to be greater.
Harm:
The extent of the harm caused by your advice will also influence the severity of the liability.
Location:
Laws vary by state, so understanding the specific laws in your location is important.
Mitigating Risk:
Disclaimers: Use clear disclaimers to state that your advice is not professional and should not be relied upon as such.
Be Honest and Accurate: Avoid making false or misleading statements.
Don't Guarantee Results: Avoid making promises or guarantees about outcomes.
Don't Provide Advice Beyond Your Knowledge: Only offer advice within your area of expertise.
Document Your Advice: Keep records of the advice you give and the context in which it was given.
Seek Legal Advice: If you have concerns about your potential liability, consult with an attorney.
BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING
Thank you for your first intelligent post in this thread - That we can deal with: What do you want me to state to show respect for your industry special-interest sponsors?
I don't think any fair minded individual run into troubles making wrong judgement calls - Even I experimented carefully because I did not know how xyz would react
( Chuck Yeager crossing the sound barrier on the X1... almost did with 5W-50)
One singular true leader - Amen.
I am not a certified MB specialist - I have no issue stating: "Everyone is herby advised to seek professional services from factory-certified *MERCEDES DEALERS* to ensure their vehicle is maintained exclusively in *STOCK CONDITION* following factory SCHEDULE - Outside the MB framework, proceed as you see fit at *YOUR OWN RISKS*. My experimentations should not be interpreted as personal advice with any guarantee of fitness or result - Total loss or damages may happen with or without modifications."
or this form:
"Notice to maintain your vehicle in factory stock condition and ensure compliance with the official service schedule, please seek professional service from certified Mercedes-Benz Dealers. Any maintenance or modification performed outside the Mercedes-Benz network is undertaken strictly at your own risk" Experimental testing should not be interpreted as personal advice with any guarantee of fitness or result - Total loss or damages may occur with or without modifications."
@kevm14 : can you pls insert one of this disclaimer in FAQ to ensure people don't goof around their vehicle - Txs.
- Do not try this at home nor work... capeesh?
- I do not recommend anyone to modify their engine or use non-factory supplies unless they personally understand well what they are doing, not relying on my inputs.
Is that cautious enough ?
Am I encouraging wreckless wrenching ??
I have no ties or verbal or writen agreement to please or dis-please anyone - We are clearly only dealing with savy experimenters. Early on I clearly understood unbalanced engines are guaranteed to bend rods or spin bearings first so I decided to restrict Rpms scope to safety - was that bad?
I believe Mercedes factory tool exposes "smooth engine" rating - So its easy to gain insight on how far unbalanced shaky engines are... no one contributed: I do me smooth sealed rings to my liking.
theres a lot more I can do If I wanted to nail results - Experimental testing has one simple way to go to get results: disable instability factors - Is that too mysterious (oiling, heat, voltage, ...) ??
Individuals already understood their own limits to select MOD-0/1/X because progress scope was transparently clear.
I have not sold anyone anything nor tried to prove anything backed with data nor impersonated a professional expert business.
I am not making 1¢ on any of this so I don't mind playing fiddle or Wurlitzer polkas or researching system solutions or designing more advanced systems failures**...
> David & Goliath...
I am just a schmuck who dislikes man-made chaos. I like GOOD DEEDS AND ACTS OF KINDNESS to help members in hurt... the flip side is I don't need the angry madness from multi-billion dollars industry lobbies...
I have refrained from calling litigations or elevated my root-cause analysis above root-grass experimentation.
I am realistically not attempting to transform well rooted business practices.
Why can't you go about fighting profitable businesses selling counterfeit parts on AMZ + fleebay...money right??
You know.... can't squeeze turnips, right?
I did not blow up the Nord-Stream pipeline to shift Deutschland leading industries - I wonder why great entities mind genuine people ?
Do your sponsors only thrive on stock engine setups? What about fried Varta batteries and misc loose modules, okay or also hush-hush ??
##### Win-win solution: failures & performance
**: how if we could keep VVT rattling business AND at the same time preserve engine response with lower system error.
Righ now I got both fixed too well (no guarantee or promises.....)
Now the whole engine is detuned.... imagine the wickness L4's. - I can refine solutions to limiting factors. - I don't mind 100kMi VVT wear with normal GDI performance.
Here is a perfect example of society today...two strangers, both in the nut job ignorant state of Cali. One, capable of rational thought, idea and personal accountability. One, an absolute want-to-be tyrant who INSISTS that not only do we all agree with him (facts be dammed)...but, others need to be silenced and even tries to bring ignorant California laws (that the rest of the nation laugh at)...and demand that consenting opinions be not only silenced...but be deleted from history.
My big question...does this thread cause cancer in California...there is a law (that is booming business for slave labor in China sticker factories).
I'm saddened that we, as fellow enthusiasts, have come to this point. I like and respect folks on both sides of the argument. I've never seen anything stated here as being malicious, though we are getting too damned close. It would be nice if we could delete or ignore the last hundred or so posts (I didn't really count the number of posts that started to turn sour).
There are three parties here that have an opinion or believe they are right -- the Plugged, the Unplugged, and the Still Deciding. Let's just respect each other's opinions, right or wrong, and have peaceful conversations. We should be beyond repeating what has already been stated numerous times and focus on any new information or findings.
Me, I'm unplugged and am comfortable with it because I have personally observed the NORMAL oil pressure of my engine. So, for my two engines (M276.825 and M276.957) I am OK leaving them unplugged. Other people have different engines and different comfort levels (risk tolerance). If Mercedes (or any other manufacturer that uses a 2-stage oil pump) definitively stated that a 2-stage pump extended engine life, I would feel differently. But the only selling points made have been reduced emissions and better fuel economy, not improved engine performance, reduced wear, or extended engine life. On the other hand, there is a strong argument for leaving things alone. Either way, folks need to decide for themselves and be responsible for their decisions and actions. Anyone doing anything that is not approved by the manufacturer does so at their own risk. Opinions or information offered here, in a discussion forum, does not constitute a contract by any means -- contracts require agreement by two parties and "consideration" by either party to bind the other. I do appreciate the cautionary statements made and something we should all be mindful of.
Let's leave the name-calling to the politicians -- they are much better at it.
I know this is a simplistic approach but in My car if the solenoid went bad it wouldn't even throw an error code unless I went looking for codes. The WIS says ignore it. My solenoid was pushing oil into the harness. Easy choice.
it is impossible for me to agree with you more. At least one of the two in the 'argument' is providing real data...sure, data used to show the world is flat. Maybe you and I will one day regret our choices on our engines. For me? Willing to take the risk - just like any other modification to any other engine.
Now, to go work on modifying my golf cart (not kidding, hey, I do live in FL now ;-)
“I don't feel like he's causing fear - I feel like he's presenting a reasonable counter argument, and it's welcome. I would query how many people are "fearful" of @crconsulting and his posts before making that broad leap. What is the fear exactly - that they all re plug in the solenoid? The car was designed for it to be plugged in anyways, so what. the only one using the word "idiots" is you.”
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This place does seem to suffer from selective memory bias when something goes against the religious doctrine.
Honestly guys, when we start interjecting politics and insults in an engineering discussion, it points to the fact people have taken this personally (almost rabid). Probably because many folks here have never had these types of exchanges in an PROFESSIONAL engineering environment.
This is more social media than engineering here.
LOL, this is my 101st post here! WTF? Absolutely ridiculous time suck, and I always said I’d never post more than 100 posts here!
Some people have 600 and 700 posts. Bordering on “addiction” https://mbworld.org/forums/misc.php?...osted&t=877669
I can’t remember any reasonable engineering discussion with this much wasted bandwidth, but I guess that’s social media.
So enjoy, , The one sided conversation and cheerleading in the echo chamber. I honestly don’t care.
Not sure everyone’s bill rate, but that’s as much as I can donate here. ( including outside resources) I just have too many other priorities and looming deadliness. Getting bogged down in some social media nonsense really is unproductive.
Yes it’s your car, go ahead and do what you want to it, but let’s not make any bogus claims.
I I don't feel like he's causing fear - I feel like he's presenting a reasonable counter argument, and it's welcome. I would query how many people are "fearful" of @crconsulting and his posts before making that broad leap. What is the fear exactly - that they all re plug in the solenoid? The car was designed for it to be plugged in anyways, so what.”
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No data or measurements provided huh?
Since we started “questioning” the wild claims only a few months ago.
Here are the things that have been brought forward by credible posters including, shop owners industry insiders, and concerned owners. Despite the constant barrage of sniping, Wild Claims we have debunked by questioning the doctrine. Solenoid disconnect Mod- Will prevent Bore scoring https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post9219627
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
Few things are clear:
-- Stock BORE SCORING IS OUT OF SCOPE from Solenoid MOD.
If Solenoid fails in the low pressure mode starving the engine https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post9201732
between those two, that’s like 50% of perceived benefits right there.
Be thankful some pushed back or we’d still be believing fallacies…
Things we learned since we started to ask “questions”
Most of the testing was done on a normally aspirated engines.
Yet amazingly, no one actually had any of these oil pumps in hand. So NO ONE here realized there’s a tandem pump on the turbo engines adding extra tension on chain guides. Luckily someone invested the time and resources to source the different pumps to show the differences between oil pumps so we could pretend it doesn’t matter. But some people get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Prihadi
I think tandem type M278/M157 oil pump works harder than my M276.8 oil pump.
Brought forward by a manufacturer of products for the MB community with 30 years experience but sniped away because nobody wants to deal with this nonsense and waste their time here. So no productive exploration.
What have we possibly gained:
Low end driveability and a little smoother MCT (if you have one)
Quicker warm up time because squirters are probably on at idle (since it’s at 40psi.)
Absolutely NO proof of improved reliability. NONE! The most comical thing is there are so many MB automobiles now running around with MORE than 200k - 300k miles WITH the solenoid still plugged in https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...2013&zip=94558
As far as this tread as sticky, let’s not pretend it’s one person.
(as far as SPAM, I challenge anyone to find SPAM in my posts unless, you either don’t know the meaning of SPAM, or trying to enforce doctrine )
I won’t even bother addressing the other nonsense. https://mbworld.org/forums/search.php?searchid=33262172
So, I was thinking yesterday what have I noticed myself when unplugging the solenoid. On my NA 276.957 engine, there was a noticeable low-end improvement right away, which has been explained by CR. I also notice the car has become quieter and smoother at startup. On my bi-turbo M276.825 engine, the tangible difference is that I can run my stage 2 tune without the early driveability issues I had before disconnecting. I am not saying anyone else should try this or have the same experience, I'm just sharing my experience.
My stage 2 is by Vivid Racing. Originally, while the stage 1 had no driveability issues, the stage 2 caused the car to feel like it would bog with light throttle pressure. VR even wrote a custom program (call it stage 1.5) to address my issues. But when I disconnected the solenoid, I tried the stage 2 again and found that it ran perfectly. I have no idea why, just that any hesitation, bogging, or other driveability problems went away. For me, that is reason enough to stick with my decision.
There are two other popular changes that I have rolled back on. One was going with 5W50 engine oil and the other was disconnecting the ALT-LIN line to the alternator. Other people are perfectly fine with those changes, but I was not. I am sticking with my 5W40 Pennzoil Platinum Euro Full Synthetic Motor Oil, and I reconnected my ALT-LIN line just because I wanted to. (I did have a failed Aux battery a couple of days ago, but I have no idea if it had anything to do with having the ALT-LIN line disconnected.) My point is that I take full responsibility for my decisions and actions, and will admit when I reverse something I did if I become uncomfortable with it. Each person is their own boss and should only do what they are comfortable with.
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
is done on normally aspirated motors too.
