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I like the first video , not the oil solenoid part, the also a white liar coolant digital gauge section ( not only the analog needle one ), of even a true AMG engine.... is sad to see.
I completely agree with Tasos, the danger of suddenly realizing or witnessing a 105C and then jump to 120C within seconds the ACTUAL coolant temp , can be a disaster as
reaction time is then so short to make correction
.
Observing trend of a slowly climbing coolant temp can prevent a disaster when you know your cooling system actual normal behavior,
when and if the small digital section coolant temp is honest ECU raw data.
Or add OBD2 type gauge.....
Last edited by S-Prihadi; Jul 13, 2024 at 10:40 AM.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
I added a comment to his Part 1 video. I don't understand the excessive wear of the magnesium and aluminum oil pump components, but it seems to me that he is trying to find a reason to believe what he believes rather than allowing the facts to shape what he believes. Restricting the oil pressure to 2 bar is a greater wear condition than allowing it to flow freely to 4 bar. I point out again that the primary purpose of the 2-stage oil pump is to improve mileage and that Mercedes says to ignore the DTC. Neither of those reason have anything to do with wear and tear on the oil pump or engine. But I doubt I will change his mind.
He is coming around. If he is willing to do it on request, it means he does not see the downside. Otherwise, he would set up a customer for failure on request
Master Tasos is kindly showing everyone how coolant sensor is wrongly reflected on IC Display.
Nothing new there! Master Surya proved that a while back. This is done to hide the unexpected temp activities. Can we loose the amazin' gauge topic?
MT! goes on to say oil SENSOR is 1:1... "nothing less, nothing more!".
Master Tasos is a seasoned engine builder who rebuilds failed engines for living.
He's not going to shoot himself in the foot with experimentations that cancel his business.
Now take a pause to consider the root cause of these engines failures....
MT! does say they run W60 honey oil without problem in his hot desert climate... but he expresses concerns about weak pump material near 300km EOL - Again, think about that.
> MT! Relay control MOD :
-- I appreciate Master Tasos sharing his smart plan with us to trigger solenoid on/off based on sensor module + relay. Perhaps we can help him. This is a very logical idea that we have outgrown.
-- No1 reason why not to create extra pressure stepped transitions is ECU is NOT friendly to any pressure changes. The ECU firmware has NO provision to compensate for pressure jumps. (How do I know... try it!)
-- Even hot oil viscosity dropping with heat is not well compensated. It screws up performance between burning oil vs. regulated oil.
-- Ppl with favorable oil conditions experience predictable performance regardless of engine heat.
-- Testing ex: yesterday I drove 50mn at Hwy speeds to inland 105°F heat. Got stuck in exit traffic crawl: engine-tranny ran noticeably as sharp as if no traffic heatsoak. A welcomed improvement!
> Now back to MT! w60 lubricant
-- Based on what we've seen, I am pretty sure this oil opens pump relief early (MOD-2.1 does as well).
-- Stock solenoid still gets higher pressure from viscous honey.
-- One issue is stock pump volume not supplying all squirters.... imbalance cylinders cooling?!?
-- Honey on MOD-0 has the pressure to trigger squirter spring but not the volume to feed all of them!
The whole topic of solenoid branches into :
available oil pressure then
oil viscosity then
piston cooling and
stuck rings vs.
wet-sealed performance
limited extreme heat removal
The interrelated details can be confusing so consider big picture:
the stock oil with limited pump pressure simulates an old leaky engine with extreme heat burning oil.... What is the outcome:
detuned performance + damaged pistons/cyl. + heat related failures.
++++ OIL O' CHOICE...
Everyone's favorite oil matches their results.
Many great oils out there!
--- Tasos gets his high pressure from W60 racing oil. MT! RELIANCE ON OIL PUMP AT W60 MAX PSI is COMFORTING, despite what "may happen at 300km..."
--- I get my smooth linear pressure from MOD-2.1. --- We both open relief valve at fairly low Rpm.
Not building up high heat is essential because removal is slow. You can't pack heat at 2000.Rpm and remove super-heat when better spray becomes available... that's stock setup.
Unfortunately "racing oils" are loaded with high ZDDP...
No thank you for my rings/cats/lambda.
It's great but not for everyday use.
MOD-3.0 lubricants may be:
- 10/15W-40 - or - 0/5W-50
- Hopefully with low calcium SP rating or SN+
- Specs need to show VI stability, high flashT...
(I want to retire my non-oxidized oil at 6kM)
TIP : provide better wet-seal earlier gets amazing torque improvement.
TIP : to help smooth operation help your engine be more predictable with CONTROLLED TEMPS, viscosity and latencies.
These factors are not random arguments, they are the practical conditions that helps get the ECU in the mood.
Stock is for everyone who enjoys it.
+++ MTasos stock with 60psi oil ....
-- The high viscosity oil provides maximum cooling possible when the pump provides unlimited volume above 3500.Rpm.
-- The problem with that setup is the pressure step when solenoid switches to unlimited volume - The VVT position goes in the weeds until corrected.
-- That screws up HPFP timings... restricts ECU performance.
-- The days MT! can listen to JR, he'll discover new power.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 13, 2024 at 08:37 PM.
> Helping Tasos' cancel Heat :
Things is Tasos took the problem bacwards by upgrading viscosity first.
He is in a different position with w60 pressure as compared to MOD journey steps 0-1-2 increasing pressures .
Here, I think we've got something he really wants : HEAT REMOVAL AT DRIVING RPM !
This has the potential to help cancel heatsoaks blowing up coolant plastic tanks
Help MT! remove heat by turning "garden hose" sprayers into "fire-hoses" pressure.
That's MOD-4.0 : W60 top cooling in UAE
This is going to max out his piston spray cooling without pressure spike to mess up HPFP timings...
I am not sure if this will provide radically different RPM at which relief gets opened by mod w60 vs. stock W60.... higher pressures already!
Unlike us with low viscosities pressure on MOD-1.
His oil temps may go up with improved heat transfer. I remark that since it's counter intuitive when looking at true IC Display numbers (cooler is hotter... LOL)
COOLER PISTONS... MEANS HOTTER OIL
ie. hot oil is a welcome sight!
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Hmmm, the opening comments on the LSPI video aren't exactly accurate. Fuel ignition normally occurs before TDC. The LSPI is occurring MUCH earlier than it should.
Agree that his logic doesn't make sense, I don't see your reply though.
Perhaps his point is that while running much thicker oil than stock, he has concerns about excessive viscosity when the oil is cold or cool. I understand he lives in a very hot part of the world but his videos are watched globally so it would be nice for him to provide context like this and not make us guess at his perspective.
Perhaps his point is that while running much thicker oil than stock, he has concerns about excessive viscosity when the oil is cold or cool. I understand he lives in a very hot part of the world but his videos are watched globally so it would be nice for him to provide context like this and not make us guess at his perspective.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by Manny_c450
Someone posted this on Tasos latest solenoid vid.. Thoughts on the comment?
Sounds made up to me. If someone is going to proliferate "I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend" statements like that, provide the evidence. On its face, it sounds like made-up nonsense. "...consistently getting high pressure when perhaps its [sic] not designed for that." simply shows a lack of understanding of how the oil pump works and affects other components. First, it's NOT high pressure, it's linear pressure increasing to a maximum of 4 bar. I'm also tiring a bit with the "German YouTube" or "German mechanic" references as if somehow that makes the statements more credible -- it doesn't. As I said before, being an American does not automatically make me expert on Ford, Dodge, or Chevrolet.
I heard from a friend of a friend if you start a car and let it run, it will eventually quit.
Last edited by JettaRed; Jul 14, 2024 at 05:01 PM.
I did a oil change 3000KM ago with Pennzoil ultra euro 5w40 on my C450 AMG with 3.0 bi turbo engine and when car sits for let's say 30 minutes to an hour there is no rattle at start right away but I hear sort of a thud/knock(it is sort of slow ) sound and then it all quiets down smoothly. Would this mod help with that issue you think? Wonder if it is a main bearing of some sort or the camshaft adjusters that make sound until oil pressure reaches the parts?
Sounds made up to me. If someone is going to proliferate "I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend" statements like that, provide the evidence. On its face, it sounds like made-up nonsense. "...consistently getting high pressure when perhaps its [sic] not designed for that." simply shows a lack of understanding of how the oil pump works and affects other components. First, it's NOT high pressure, it's linear pressure increasing to a maximum of 4 bar. I'm also tiring a bit with the "German YouTube or German mechanic" references as if somehow that makes the statements more credible -- it doesn't. As I said before, being an American does not automatically make me expert on Ford, Dodge, or Chevrolet.
I heard from a friend of a friend if you start a car and let it run, it will eventually quit.
I'm the thinking it was the Stop/Start at every stop light and extended oil changes from fast lube joints while only driving short in town trips that did that one in.
Besides, I know a guy who dated a girl who's best friends first cousin...
I did a oil change 3000KM ago with Pennzoil ultra euro 5w40 on my C450 AMG with 3.0 bi turbo engine and when car sits for let's say 30 minutes to an hour there is no rattle at start right away but I hear sort of a thud/knock(it is sort of slow ) sound and then it all quiets down smoothly. Would this mod help with that issue you think? Wonder if it is a main bearing of some sort or the camshaft adjusters that make sound until oil pressure reaches the parts?
Nope... this oil pump MOD can hardly help startup rattling once active but may help prevent it with more favorable oiling pressure.
You may have a chance if better HPFP lubing smooth out Bank1 jerkiness.
MOD pressure does not make up for loose VVT + Tensioners.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 14, 2024 at 03:51 PM.
Perhaps his point is that while running much thicker oil than stock, he has concerns about excessive viscosity when the oil is cold or cool. I understand he lives in a very hot part of the world but his videos are watched globally so it would be nice for him to provide context like this and not make us guess at his perspective.
If i'm not mistaken, I recall seeing a graph by S-Prihadi showing the oil pressure flatlining at ~60 psi with the solenoid unplugged and the oil not yet at operating temp, which means the relief valve is operating as intended.
Even on a totally stock engine, with the solenoid plugged in, it's not uncommon during a cold morning commute, while merging on the highway, for the rpms to exceed 3500; thus creating the condition that he is concerned with. This is a fairly common condition and I'm sure has been taken into account when designing the size of the relief valve, knowing that the oil may be viscous when needing pressure relief.
Last edited by ImolaSix; Jul 14, 2024 at 04:15 PM.
If i'm not mistaken, I recall seeing a graph by S-Prihadi showing the oil pressure flatlining at ~60 psi with the solenoid unplugged and the oil not yet at operating temp, which means the relief valve is operating as intended.
Even on a totally stock engine, with the solenoid plugged in, it's not uncommon during a cold morning commute, while merging on the highway, for the rpms to exceed 3500; thus creating the condition that he is concerned with.
This is a fairly common condition and I'm sure has been taken into account when designing the size of the relief valve, knowing that the oil may be viscous when needing pressure relief.
Tasos is the one who likes w60 honey lube to guarantee some viscosity remains under severe usage.
> Pressure without volume....
-- Under MOD-0, Tasos still has low volume available at driving Rpm to feed squirters regardless of W60 higher pressure.
MOD-4 W60 : guarantees to have excellent spray cooling flow but may load oil pump near idle. His course would be 15w50 racing oils, such as "Driven DI50".
Prihadi gave me proof of everything with his two videos. I will wait a little longer before changing the oil for the first time (until I have done 10,000 km) until the engine has completely cleaned itself with the normal oil (without thickening) and then I will use Motul 5W40 from the start as before and a little Add of 5W50.
Today I just thought of a simple test to evaluate piston heat! Hot pistons and hot heads are the heatsoakers. Read engine coolant sensor during heatsoaks.
The piston heat has no other way out but transfer to cylinder block where coolant sensor is located.
When coolant is not circulated with engine stopped, temps climb towards piston temperature.
Actual number affected by thermostat managed opening and prior driving style.
It's an indirect approximative measurement that can be used to assess improvements: before/after MOD level 0-1-2-3-4.
Everyone can read coolant temp with an ECU scanner. Coolant numbers are going to differ in many ways... PURELY AN INDICATION ONLY.
189F idling
198F after stopped 2mn only (IGN ON)
Stable 202F Max MOD-2.1
Whatching heatsoak temps in progress can help diagnose STORED HEAT.
temps now decreasing
MOD-2.1 spraying effectively removes heat !!
> PLAN-B... READ ECU SENSOR:
Read your ECU INTERNAL TEMP during heatsoaks if it's located over engine top.
(M276 ECU is over B2 exhaust header)
> HEATSOAK TOTAL = TEMP + TIME:
-- Both the AMOUNT of temp climb and the DURATION is what's significant.
-- Restart engine after temps stop climbing to circulate coolant for additional readings.
-- Typically the heated piston mass is not great but they are extremely hot. So this heatsoak is by nature high and short.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 15, 2024 at 09:26 PM.
This is related to stock MOD-0: solenoid jam
Not related to MOD-1234: solenoid stays unused.
meaning MOD-1 prevents jams, the opposite of what video says.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 16, 2024 at 03:49 AM.
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> Helping Tasos' cancel Heat :
