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Hello people
Someone told me in a German forum that this trick with the oil pump plug only works up to an oil temperature of 80°C. Can someone confirm or refute that this is not the case? Maybe even with log files or other data? I would be very grateful to show him the reality.
Thx in advance.
My apologies, but the statement seems incomplete. What do they mean by "this trick with the oil pump"? What does it mean that it only works up to 80C? So far, all the experiments from @S-Prihadi are with temperatures above 80C. It can be seen in all the plots, or table he has posted.
Perhaps a better context to understand "their concern" (blah blah blah, so far)
Thanks a lot. It helps me really to know, and to tell him, that his tests were above 80°C.
His concerns were, that this Mod with the unplugged Solenoid only makes a difference if the engine Oil is less than 80°C. But in my eyes.. this is how you told only bla bla..
Thanks a lot. It helps me really to know, and to tell him, that his tests were above 80°C.
His concerns were, that ...
"this Mod with the unplugged Solenoid only makes a difference if the engine Oil is less than 80°C"
But in my eyes.. this is how you told only bla bla..
Let's look at ENGINE OIL TEMPS...
valid numbers are collected from OBD (NOT the salted numbers from instrument panel cluster display).
Engine Oil starts at ambient temp then gets circulated by the oil pump throughout the whole engine. During that course, it warms up to track coolant temps. Presumably ~200°F range according to ECU control of Tstat opening +/-20°F.
> QUESTION: -1- "this Mod with the unplugged Solenoid only makes a difference if the engine Oil is less than 80°C"
I think I've just understood something using my own built-in AI algorithm
-> the question could be related to engine warm-up confirming the MOD-1 only does something to speed up oil warm-up with normal pressure under 3500.RPM. Yes this is confirmed! Cold oil warms up faster when circulated better.
-2- "... only below 80C..." :
also means MOD-1 does nothing above that range, right?
-> I confirm the display is not going to show anything away from normal range ie. temps display unchanged!
To get engine improvement based on cylinders condition... explore MOD-2.
> SUGGESTIONS:
Tells your German friends to ....
--- Disregard display CLUSTER FAKE TEMPS
--- Upgrade engine to fresh 5W-40 grade or above to increase heat removal with slightly higher pressures.
--- Thinner "MB Approved 229.5" viscosities oils are 100% compatible but prevent engine performance improvement.
--- Realize that lack of "engine transformation" is limited by drafty thin oils that unbalance cylinders with random latencies. The viscosity range is essential for it to remain stable at working temps.
A picture tells 1000's words : thin oil leads to premature burning vicious cycle
The above graphic shows viscosity dropping with higher heat besides sheared polymers.
When viscosity is sub-optimal, oil gets flash burned by piston extreme heat - This further decrease viscosity. Less viscosity drops pressure and increase RPM necessary for effective spray cooling.
Once cylinders are unbalanced, timings are derated with weak mixtures misfires.
Before that happens minimize metal to metal cylinder wear with oil of your choice...
Vider-zen.
-- When thinned oils get vaporized above flashpoint the piston rings are left dry-lubed by soft carbon ashes.
-- With MOD-2.1 you have the choice to use a film of prestine oil.
-- The question always circles back to oil specs :
High flash point
Viscosity towards top of the range
Stable viscosity index
SN/SP ratings
(Grp III; IV; V)
Priced competitively
Mid additives ash for clean rings/valves
....
The one thing left to do is SPECS RANKING according to prioritized criteria.
> Workaround Plan-B :
We know all lubricants shade viscosity then why not use a weak FSynt. 0W50 that ages back into high 40 range? (ExMob1 makes that).
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 9, 2024 at 07:30 PM.
They also had concerns of cold oil with full Oil pressure at the cold start. Would it damage the oil pump? Is there any know how or a test? What's going on with the chain tensioners under constant high Oil pressure?
They also had concerns of cold oil with full Oil pressure at the cold start. Would it damage the oil pump? Is there any know how or a test? What's going on with the chain tensioners under constant high Oil pressure?
From the statement " full Oil pressure", it is clear there is a misconception about what unplugging the solenoid does.
Unplugging allows the pump to continuously increase pressure (like ALL oil pumps have done for decades) until the maximum pressure is achieved.
On the cold oil "full oil pressure" is no different than the "warming up algorithm" from the ECU. Even with the solenoid plugged (stock configuration), the ECU raises the RPM. It allows the pressure to increase for a limited time, and once "warm" (whatever that means for the ECU algorithm), the solenoid is managed as we already understand it.
Are you certain those "German guys" exists? It seems like an AI algorithm asking silly questions as it is being trained,
They also had concerns of cold oil with full Oil pressure at the cold start. Would it damage the oil pump? Is there any know how or a test? What's going on with the chain tensioners under constant high Oil pressure?
While Juan provided most of your answer in addition we can consider the hazards of MOD-0 stock conditions.
Are there any draw back to the factory setup:
Limited oil pump pressure below 3500.Rpm under normal driving conditions. This is translated as:
Reduced cylinder lubrication
Extreme pistons heat
Disabled wet seal
Increased blow-by pressure
degraded engine driveability performance
Premium coolant pressure heatsoaks
Leaky tensioners rubber guide
Worned out VVT locks
Oil-in-harness
burnt coils and injectors
multiple types of exotic misfires
Mayo mix... kaput RIP (exchanger + radiator)
Lose of use while vehicle is stuck for endless repairs falls under unnecessary drama you may avoid.
The experimental study is uncomplete. We welcome intelligent feedback from the Rhineland
Danke.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 10, 2024 at 12:11 AM.
Reason: reverse logic
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Originally Posted by slobo
Hello people
Someone told me in a German forum that this trick with the oil pump plug only works up to an oil temperature of 80°C. Can someone confirm or refute that this is not the case? Maybe even with log files or other data? I would be very grateful to show him the reality.
Thx in advance.
I'm sure something is lost in translation from German to English, but what does "only works" mean? What is it that this person thinks is going to happen?
I remember @S-Prihadi providing Mercedes documentation that discusses the operation of the two-stage oil pump as it is controlled by the solenoid. Upon cold start, unrestricted oil pressure is permitted momentarily. Then after a few seconds, the solenoid activates and restricts the oil pressure to 2 bar until 3500 rpm when the solenoid deactivates and allow pressure to go to 4 bar maximum. With the solenoid disconnected, it is deactivated as soon as the engine starts and oil pressure will rise normally to a maximum of 4 bar according to engine speed. That does not change based on oil temperature. So your guy on the German forum is clueless about how all this works.
Just because some guy is on a German forum doesn't mean he is somehow infused with special knowledge about German cars. That's like assuming I know anything about Chevrolet or Chrysler cars -- I don't.
I'm sure something is lost in translation from German to English, but what does "only works" mean? What is it that this person thinks is going to happen?
I remember @S-Prihadi providing Mercedes documentation that discusses the operation of the two-stage oil pump as it is controlled by the solenoid. Upon cold start, unrestricted oil pressure is permitted momentarily. Then after a few seconds, the solenoid activates and restricts the oil pressure to 2 bar until 3500 rpm when the solenoid deactivates and allow pressure to go to 4 bar maximum. With the solenoid disconnected, it is deactivated as soon as the engine starts and oil pressure will rise normally to a maximum of 4 bar according to engine speed. That does not change based on oil temperature. So your guy on the German forum is clueless about how all this works.
Just because some guy is on a German forum doesn't mean he is somehow infused with special knowledge about German cars. That's like assuming I know anything about Chevrolet or Chrysler cars -- I don't.
Herr JR, your knowledge gives you an unfair advantage...
Slobo is a bit confused like we were at the beginning. Don't shoot the messenger!
When we buy the best car on Earth designed from the best Bosch/Conti technologies... it's hard to believe it can be made reliable.
I understand some of us got amazin' aluminum cylinder liners...
If/when these fall apart as designed, I hope they are on factory MOD-0
else MOD-1;2;3 are gonna catch bad wind.
EXPERIMENTAL RESULTS... "Mileage may vary" - "Proceed with caution!"
Realize we are walking a German engineered minefield planted by the most brilliant PhD's seeking your disposable income.
These "performance oriented" high-maintenance ladies systems are not Mom & Pop "Japanese grade" yet.
GDI timings: TORQUE/POWER at 900.Rpm !!!!!
I can only wish for everyone to experience the advanced driveability of powerful GDI timings. This is the next frontier... hurry your harss across Charlie's check point with our Navy Vet. Rick....
Multi-shot injection awaiting for your delight. Well lubeb balanced cylinders are prerequisite.
Herr JR/JC you have a free pass*!
Experience it as member of MS! deep dive research team. Divers are not jokers.
( * ): cylinders must seal + ESP + (ISM/? ) rework.
105°F perfect testing condition now !
ECU/TCU Performance now unaffected by high ambients - A real departure from MB setup for extreme heat.
You know it's ridiculous when you have to drive a new Mercedes with windows down in 100°F heat. Extreme heat is now canceled for engine/tranny + passengers.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 10, 2024 at 02:45 AM.
Reason: Navigating German Minefield
Are you certain those "German guys" exists? It seems like an AI algorithm asking silly questions as it is being trained,
No, I can send you the link to the stern-freunde.de Forum. I was telling one guy to unplug it. But he told me, that he is in contact with Tasos and he told him, it doesn't matter above 80°C Oil Temp. Since the Oil is warm up, it has enough Oil pressure. The Guys in the German Forum had concerns about long time experience, oil leaking everywere because of the high oil pressure and so on. These are not my concerns.
I'm long time here in MBWorld.. I'm not an KI or AI. These questions are not silly for people hearing the first time of that mod. I'm driving with this mod since 2000 km now and I'm very happy with that mod. The car runs amazing and the TCU shifts much better in my 9G.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
@slobo I apologize for unintentionally directing my ire at you. The question was innocent enough for someone new to this modification. However, calling it a "trick" is offensive. Again, probably a translation thing.
I challenged Tasos on his YouTube channel when he commented that disconnecting the solenoid was probably a bad thing (not certainly a bad thing) and he back-pedaled a bit. I respect his skills, knowledge, and abilities as a recognized expert on Mercedes engines, but his opinion is only his opinion unless he can provide unrefuted evidence of harm. (I'm sure he also wanted to protect his reputation and avoid any liability if he were to "endorse" the mod and someone effed up their car because they unplugged the wrong thing, etc.)
To the contrary, none of us have taken this mod lightly and have collectively done quite a bit of analysis and data collecting about this specific modification. Many have contributed to our knowledge base, but clearly @S-Prihadi has done the lion's share of empirical data collection and analysis, along with ancillary information from Mercedes such as ignoring the DTC. We have also confirmed that the two-stage oil pumps are used by other manufacturers, as well, for the specific purpose of fleet fuel efficiency. None of the published work about these pumps talk about improved longevity or engine performance.
So, to get back to the original question about oil temperatures, it appears that temperature is irrelevant to the operation of this mod. Max pressure is 4 bar whether the engine is cold or hot because the solenoid is triggered by engine speed and not temperature. The idea that somehow seals will be blown when cold could possibly happen with or without the mod, if it was going to happen at all. It was a fair enough question, but one that shows a certain lack of knowledge.
Thanks a lot for the explanatio and your time. I'm sure that sometimes a lot is going wrong with translation and what I would like to say / ask. But you answer all my questions about this Mod (in German Trick). ;-) thx again.
@slobo I apologize for unintentionally directing my ire at you. The question was innocent enough for someone new to this modification. However, calling it a "trick" is offensive. Again, probably a translation thing.
I challenged Tasos on his YouTube channel when he commented that disconnecting the solenoid was probably a bad thing (not certainly a bad thing) and he back-pedaled a bit. I respect his skills, knowledge, and abilities as a recognized expert on Mercedes engines, but his opinion is only his opinion unless he can provide unrefuted evidence of harm. (I'm sure he also wanted to protect his reputation and avoid any liability if he were to "endorse" the mod and someone effed up their car because they unplugged the wrong thing, etc.)
To the contrary, none of us have taken this mod lightly and have collectively done quite a bit of analysis and data collecting about this specific modification. Many have contributed to our knowledge base, but clearly @S-Prihadi has done the lion's share of empirical data collection and analysis, along with ancillary information from Mercedes such as ignoring the DTC. We have also confirmed that the two-stage oil pumps are used by other manufacturers, as well, for the specific purpose of fleet fuel efficiency. None of the published work about these pumps talk about improved longevity or engine performance.
So, to get back to the original question about oil temperatures, it appears that temperature is irrelevant to the operation of this mod. Max pressure is 4 bar whether the engine is cold or hot because the solenoid is triggered by engine speed and not temperature. The idea that somehow seals will be blown when cold could possibly happen with or without the mod, if it was going to happen at all. It was a fair enough question, but one that shows a certain lack of knowledge.
pls share the link of you challenging tasos lol I’d love to chime in on your behalf. Truthfully I think this thread has the greatest info on the solenoid mod. I spoke to my Indy about it, ( he was a master amg engine builder for Mercedes) and he said the best benefit of the mod is the quicker temps and spraying of pistons more frequently. He said if it was bad the car wouldn’t throw a soft code and at some point we would have already seen catastrophe!
pls share the link of you challenging tasos lol I’d love to chime in on your behalf. Truthfully I think this thread has the greatest info on the solenoid mod. I spoke to my Indy about it, ( he was a master amg engine builder for Mercedes) and he said the best benefit of the mod is the quicker temps and spraying of pistons more frequently.
He said if it was bad the car wouldn’t throw a soft code and at some point we would have already seen catastrophe!
As far as ECU throwing codes... the pump volume control solenoid is electrically monitored for open/short but most engines lack oil sensing. This prevents the ECU from sensing solenoid jam.
Engine lubrication has been shown to influence gas mileage. Limited oiling is thought to reduce frictions using modern additive package with limited ZDDP and lower calcium sludge deposits.
Stock MOD-0 provided extreme heat:
"limited oiling to save gasoline"
The solenoid journey started with MOD-1 :
"Restore normal oil pressure back"
Then evolved to MOD-2.0 :
"Restore wet-sealed compressions"
Then progressed to MOD-2.1 :
"Restore piston cooling for stable performance"
The oil industry has developed new proprietary formula to chemically bond with metal surfaces. Dry lubrication uses polar molecules with ultra low viscosities all the way to 0W08.
The hydrodynamic surface films are
-- minimized to boost saving gasoline fumes.... or
-- maximized to prevent metal on metal frictions.
Choices are personal and results vary according to conditions.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 12, 2024 at 04:01 PM.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
