Mercedes Suspended V-8 Sales Over "Quality Issue," AMG Boss Says
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Mercedes Suspended V-8 Sales Over "Quality Issue," AMG Boss Says
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I guess quality issue can mean a bunch of things. If they had to make changes to the engine to meet 2022 emissions, but weren't happy with the resulting performance then I guess that could be considered a quality issue. This is not unprecedented actually. Audi had similar issues and skipped model years in some markets for some models. Both the RS5 and R8 skipped an entire model year in North America while remaining on sale elsewhere. The introduction of WLTP in 2019 also put major delays on several models, and Audi had to skip a model year for the TT RS, because they couldn't get the 5-cylinder re-certified and ended up having to re-engineer it. Perhaps AMG is faced with having to detune the V8s in order to meet emissions, and don't wanna say anything until that's the last resort. This also wouldn't be a first. The market differences could also be explained, because of the actual models that are being sold. For example in some markets only the S models are sold, or only the non-S models. For 2022 for example they had already cancelled the C63 coupe and cab, and were only gonna sell the C63S.
Last edited by superswiss; Sep 22, 2021 at 05:01 PM.
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I pretty sure he means they didn’t want to put out 2022s with physical Gauges, a smaller nav screen, just a backup camera, non adjustable suspension, etc. basically devoid of everything chips make possible,
Who wants an E63 that only differs from a base E-class in engine size? I mean, look at everything they’re having to cut from build sheets to even make the 2021s, it would be worse next year.
The lead time for chip orders from suppliers is years when there isn’t a shortage. Mercedes is already working on deals with suppliers for cars we won’t even see for years. Orders from suppliers got cut in the middle of 2020 when it looked like car sales were dropping off a cliff, combined with closures at suppliers due to Covid, combined with a chip shortage where chip makers slowed production, then everyone needed chips when no one was making enough this year, TSMC says they won’t be able to meet demand until a factory they haven’t even built is finished sometime late next year, intel’s in a similar place. Then you’ve got all of the EVs that are coming that need even more chips, more advanced autonomous systems, etc. we’re in this for the long haul and if Mercedes doesn’t want to compromise their quality because of chip shortages, they shouldn’t.
Who wants an E63 that only differs from a base E-class in engine size? I mean, look at everything they’re having to cut from build sheets to even make the 2021s, it would be worse next year.
The lead time for chip orders from suppliers is years when there isn’t a shortage. Mercedes is already working on deals with suppliers for cars we won’t even see for years. Orders from suppliers got cut in the middle of 2020 when it looked like car sales were dropping off a cliff, combined with closures at suppliers due to Covid, combined with a chip shortage where chip makers slowed production, then everyone needed chips when no one was making enough this year, TSMC says they won’t be able to meet demand until a factory they haven’t even built is finished sometime late next year, intel’s in a similar place. Then you’ve got all of the EVs that are coming that need even more chips, more advanced autonomous systems, etc. we’re in this for the long haul and if Mercedes doesn’t want to compromise their quality because of chip shortages, they shouldn’t.
Last edited by Carac; Sep 22, 2021 at 06:49 PM.
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I pretty sure he means they didn’t want to put out 2022s with physical Gauges, a smaller nav screen, just a backup camera, non adjustable suspension, etc. basically devoid of everything chips make possible,
Who wants an E63 that only differs from a base E-class in engine size? I mean, look at everything they’re having to cut from build sheets to even make the 2021s, it would be worse next year.
Who wants an E63 that only differs from a base E-class in engine size? I mean, look at everything they’re having to cut from build sheets to even make the 2021s, it would be worse next year.
I continue to suspect it’s something related to emissions and/or consumption issues barring them from re-certifying the AMG V8 engine for 2022. After all, the only surviving MB V8’s for 2022 have the hybrid systems that alleviate those issues. Yes Aston Martin still gets the same engines per this article, but they have a completely different set of circumstances and variables compared to AMG. The model mix, sales volumes etc.
Who knows…they’re being opaque for SOME reason, that’s for sure.
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While rare, there could be any number of things that would cause a manufacturer to suspend production. As an example, if a vital component for the V8 engine had a QC issue that couldn’t be resolved in time for the 2022 production line, it could suspend or cancel production. This could explain why 2021 production is not affected because the parts for that production run would have already been established. As would other production lines such as engines produced for Aston Martin etc.
With constant changes to emissions and other regulations, components have to change so it’s not a matter of pumping out the exact same part as the 2021 model year. If the problem was a design issue, they would have to put the redesigned component though testing all over again which can take a lot of time and Mercedes is not going to cut corners. Also, Mercedes does not physically produce each part. Many vital components are manufactured by contracted suppliers. Mercedes is a reputable brand and is not likely to throw their suppliers under the bus either. IMO, it’s better to just say there’s a quality issue. So, I’m not saying this is what’s happening but just an example of what could be a cause.
With constant changes to emissions and other regulations, components have to change so it’s not a matter of pumping out the exact same part as the 2021 model year. If the problem was a design issue, they would have to put the redesigned component though testing all over again which can take a lot of time and Mercedes is not going to cut corners. Also, Mercedes does not physically produce each part. Many vital components are manufactured by contracted suppliers. Mercedes is a reputable brand and is not likely to throw their suppliers under the bus either. IMO, it’s better to just say there’s a quality issue. So, I’m not saying this is what’s happening but just an example of what could be a cause.
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I guess quality issue can mean a bunch of things. If they had to make changes to the engine to meet 2022 emissions, but weren't happy with the resulting performance then I guess that could be considered a quality issue. This is not unprecedented actually. Audi had similar issues and skipped model years in some markets for some models. Both the RS5 and R8 skipped an entire model year in North America while remaining on sale elsewhere. The introduction of WLTP in 2019 also put major delays on several models, and Audi had to skip a model year for the TT RS, because they couldn't get the 5-cylinder re-certified and ended up having to re-engineer it. Perhaps AMG is faced with having to detune the V8s in order to meet emissions, and don't wanna say anything until that's the last resort. This also wouldn't be a first. The market differences could also be explained, because of the actual models that are being sold. For example in some markets only the S models are sold, or only the non-S models. For 2022 for example they had already cancelled the C63 coupe and cab, and were only gonna sell the C63S.
Explains why my wife's G63 was rolled back to 2021, even with production being mid October and coming here in November supposedly.
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While rare, there could be any number of things that would cause a manufacturer to suspend production. As an example, if a vital component for the V8 engine had a QC issue that couldn’t be resolved in time for the 2022 production line, it could suspend or cancel production. This could explain why 2021 production is not affected because the parts for that production run would have already been established. As would other production lines such as engines produced for Aston Martin etc.
With constant changes to emissions and other regulations, components have to change so it’s not a matter of pumping out the exact same part as the 2021 model year. If the problem was a design issue, they would have to put the redesigned component though testing all over again which can take a lot of time and Mercedes is not going to cut corners. Also, Mercedes does not physically produce each part. Many vital components are manufactured by contracted suppliers. Mercedes is a reputable brand and is not likely to throw their suppliers under the bus either. IMO, it’s better to just say there’s a quality issue. So, I’m not saying this is what’s happening but just an example of what could be a cause.
With constant changes to emissions and other regulations, components have to change so it’s not a matter of pumping out the exact same part as the 2021 model year. If the problem was a design issue, they would have to put the redesigned component though testing all over again which can take a lot of time and Mercedes is not going to cut corners. Also, Mercedes does not physically produce each part. Many vital components are manufactured by contracted suppliers. Mercedes is a reputable brand and is not likely to throw their suppliers under the bus either. IMO, it’s better to just say there’s a quality issue. So, I’m not saying this is what’s happening but just an example of what could be a cause.
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If this is the case, then how can MB still providing AM with the engines.
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It’s why they’re still going to make 2022 G63s and S63s, they obviously have enough components to make SOME cars but not their full lineup.
Last edited by Carac; Sep 24, 2021 at 12:12 PM.
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Because they have enough components for some cars and not others. They’re in triage mode on what cars to make and which to pause production on.
It’s why they’re still going to make 2022 G63s and S63s, they obviously have enough components to make SOME cars but not their full lineup.
It’s why they’re still going to make 2022 G63s and S63s, they obviously have enough components to make SOME cars but not their full lineup.
Not aware of a current S63 model.
I agree that they are in triage mode and picking and choosing models. It looks to me like they are cranking out the new S-class now…all of the dealers here in Los Angeles have them stacked up on lots…and I expect will swing back towards the new SL and suspended AMG models come spring. Part of cutting losses, I expect, is avoiding US certification cost of the AMG V8 for MY2022.
Last edited by Alan Smithee; Sep 24, 2021 at 02:05 PM.
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Chip shortage has nothing to do with the engine parts
They are delivering the cars with no communication module
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There are no new rules kicking in for 2022.
There will not be a 2022 G63; MB has stated as such. As absent implied, MY2021 G63 production is continuing through the end of the calendar year, which will provide supply through Q1 of next year. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I expect we will see MY2023 models early…before next summer...for the suspended 2022 models.
Not aware of a current S63 model.
I agree that they are in triage mode and picking and choosing models. It looks to me like they are cranking out the new S-class now…all of the dealers here in Los Angeles have them stacked up on lots…and I expect will swing back towards the new SL and suspended AMG models come spring. Part of cutting losses, I expect, is avoiding US certification cost of the AMG V8 for MY2022.
There will not be a 2022 G63; MB has stated as such. As absent implied, MY2021 G63 production is continuing through the end of the calendar year, which will provide supply through Q1 of next year. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I expect we will see MY2023 models early…before next summer...for the suspended 2022 models.
Not aware of a current S63 model.
I agree that they are in triage mode and picking and choosing models. It looks to me like they are cranking out the new S-class now…all of the dealers here in Los Angeles have them stacked up on lots…and I expect will swing back towards the new SL and suspended AMG models come spring. Part of cutting losses, I expect, is avoiding US certification cost of the AMG V8 for MY2022.
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Narrative keeps shifting somewhat. No real commitment from MB as to what to actual cause is. We have heard chip shortage, then compliance, and now quality issues. I'm sure they will come up with something that encapsulates all three reasons. Clearly no transparency here. MB has changed.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, gents... but, as espoused in other threads on the subject, it's got nothing to do with US regulations for automobile emissions--which haven't changed in any meaningful way since Biden took over. Y'all should know better than to assume the US Government is capable of moving that quickly on anything.
The real issue, if it is emissions-related, is almost definitely the EUROPEAN fleet mpg and emissions standards, which mandate that MB is fined huge sums of money for each vehicle produced in Europe that puts them beyond those averages, regardless of the market those vehicles are being sold/sent to.
And just for your edification, nn7man: you can still spec a G63 on mbusa.com
Last edited by bimmerconvert; Sep 25, 2021 at 11:28 AM.
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Consistent with the President’s Day One Executive Order, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and U.S. Department of Transportation’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) will announce how they are addressing the previous administration’s harmful rollbacks of near-term fuel efficiency and emissions standards. The two agencies’ standards work in a compatible fashion through model year 2026, with the NHTSA proposed rule starting in model year 2024 and the EPA proposed rule taking effect a year sooner with model year 2023.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...rs-and-trucks/
The real issue, if it is emissions-related, is almost definitely the EUROPEAN fleet mpg and emissions standards, which mandate that MB is fined huge sums of money for each vehicle produced in Europe that puts them beyond those averages, regardless of the market those vehicles are being sold/sent to.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, gents... but, as espoused in other threads on the subject, it's got nothing to do with US regulations for automobile emissions--which haven't changed in any meaningful way since Biden took over. Y'all should know better than to assume the US Government is capable of moving that quickly on anything.
The real issue, if it is emissions-related, is almost definitely the EUROPEAN fleet mpg and emissions standards, which mandate that MB is fined huge sums of money for each vehicle produced in Europe that puts them beyond those averages, regardless of the market those vehicles are being sold/sent to.
And just for your edification, nn7man: you can still spec a G63 on mbusa.com
The real issue, if it is emissions-related, is almost definitely the EUROPEAN fleet mpg and emissions standards, which mandate that MB is fined huge sums of money for each vehicle produced in Europe that puts them beyond those averages, regardless of the market those vehicles are being sold/sent to.
And just for your edification, nn7man: you can still spec a G63 on mbusa.com
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The real reason is likely a complex one, and might still be related to the shortages and as the suppliers are forced to try to catch up, the quality of the supplied parts is likely suffering. Mercedes also just announced that they are delaying deliveries by more than a year, so even if they still offered the V8, you might have to wait for more than a year, so that puts any order into 2023 anyway. I think what some people don't realize is that even though the chip shortage has been going on for a while, there was existing inventory that carried the car manufacturers for a while, but these inventories have run dry now.
https://www.motor1.com/news/535989/m...-shortage/amp/
https://www.motor1.com/news/535989/m...-shortage/amp/
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https://europe.autonews.com/automake...2-fines-europe is one such article. I haven't looked at which EU agency is responsible for enforcement, but I have seen this structure re: fleet emissions averages and fines detailed elsewhere previously.
Nothing here about EU exports, either:
https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/.../regulation_en
Only references to “EU emissions”, “cars registered in Europe”, and “EU fleet-”…not ‘global’ fleet.
