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That torque is insane! I bet there a lot of torque management and traction control management happening even with your TCU tune.
This reminds me of my W212 tunes that didn't really go much faster than stock (felt waay faster though). For my W213 tune, I asked my tuner to reduce the torque to as low as I could get while not compromising HP.
I think it worked: higher DA The DA was insanely good though lol Pretty average
These were all on different days and sometimes months apart. But the mods were about the same (except TCU tune, switched from ECC to Edok)
Car is back. Dyno Comp was having an issue with fuel pressure bleed down. This was causing long cranking. Spool asked Dyno Comp to do a multitude of tests. I personally didn't realize that the fuel rails had to be removed and drilled ect. Maybe you just learned something too? Even with great care, it seems that injector 8 got something stuck in it and hung it partially open. Dyno Comp replaced all of the injectors on that bank. The opposite side injectors seemed okay, but they still sent them out and had them professionally cleaned (even though they didn't have too). Dyno Comp has gone above and beyond with the tune, installation, and customer service. I 100% recommend them.
The Spool Pumps have seemed to be doing a great job. Fuel pressure is great across the board. I believe we have found the threshold of stock turbos coupled with 91 fuel at 720 hp and 846 tq to the tire. Not even mad about it.
Here are a couple more dragy pulls as the car sits currently.
Still struggling with the 0 to 60 times. The best I have gotten was 3.17. This one at 3.26 was in race mode, full stiff suspension, traction off, PS4's at recommended MB tire pressures. I did what @kponti said " I would activate racestart and launch the moment racestart flashes on the screen. Do not allow the car to build boost at all!!!" With almost 850 tq and 48 degree pavement this was the best I could get. I am sure that with more seat time, I will get this number down.
New PB from 60 to 130. 7.90 > 8.11. Believe this time is hampered by 91 octane fuel. I do have 5 gallons of 91 in the car right now, and I added 4 gallons of Sunoco 100 octane fuel. I will go out soon and rerun all of these tests to see if the car will pick up with the increase of octane like it seems the 93 octane cars do.
This is a PB for the car. Against the last 10.96 PB. Of course a 10.95 to a 10.96 doesn't seem like much. However the numbers are interesting.
10.96 sixty foot = 1.72 / 10.95 sixty foot = 1.83. This was .11 second slower. Every tenth off the sixty foot is roughly 2 tenths off the quarter. Following that pattern this pass could be a 10.7x if I can get the same sixty foot again.
10.96 330 ft = 4.64s / 10.95 330 ft = 4.72. Again .08 tenths slower.
The 10.96 run had 794 ft tq which yielded a faster 1/8 mile and 671 hp which yielded a slower big end. The 10.95 had 846 ft tq which yielded a slower 1/8 mile (mechanical grip challenged), but 720 hp which yielded a faster big end.
seems like you dodged a bullet with a stuck open injector that usually doesn't end well. It's nice to see your progress, thanks for sharing the journey.
That torque is insane! I bet there a lot of torque management and traction control management happening even with your TCU tune.
This reminds me of my W212 tunes that didn't really go much faster than stock (felt waay faster though). For my W213 tune, I asked my tuner to reduce the torque to as low as I could get while not compromising HP.
I think it worked: higher DA The DA was insanely good though lol Pretty average
These were all on different days and sometimes months apart. But the mods were about the same (except TCU tune, switched from ECC to Edok)
The dragy numbers are similar with the faster cars but on the slower end of that spectrum. 91 octane and finding mechanical grip (cold pavement doesn't help either) are the enemy for my ET on dragy. MPH is close too. I do have a mix of 91 octane and 100 octane sitting in the car right now. Should be sitting at 94 octane. Going to drive it for about 20 miles and then I head back to the street I did my test last night. Hopefully we can get into a low 10.80 and trap over 130 mph.
Yeah the TQ is really nice with average driving. The tq hits hard on the race launch but the first 50 to 75 feet is pretty tame, and then all hell breaks loose. That is exactly where I am losing a bulk of my time. However, if I can get the car to go 10.7x almost every time I ask it too, then I will be happy honestly. Like you said in your thread as well, seat time is a big contributor to optimized performance. I haven't had the seat time to find all of the little things yet. However, your direction on launching has made a big difference esp with managing the tq. Thank you for the guidance.
seems like you dodged a bullet with a stuck open injector that usually doesn't end well. It's nice to see your progress, thanks for sharing the journey.
Yeah, it seems like it. This car has NOT been the kindest to me yet, but we are working hard to iron out all of the kinks. The journey has been..........interesting to say the least.
If I can get this car to sixty foot 1.72 again, it will go 10.7x as it sits on 91 octane. Honestly that is the ultimate goal.
However, I am just octane and a drag radial away from going quite a bit quicker as well.
According to Slav's (ECC) experience with tuning these cars on the dyno, you are putting out as much HP as what he estimated I would be at (~720-740whp), but you are putting out over 100ft ib torque more than where I was estimated at.
Great journey for sure, I bet with some seat time you will be up there. Also, the octane will certainly make quite a big difference after driving around.
Is there any way you can make some logs and send to your tuner to make sure all is well with the tune? your feeling of slow 50-70 makes me think something is happening there.
According to Slav's (ECC) experience with tuning these cars on the dyno, you are putting out as much HP as what he estimated I would be at (~720-740whp), but you are putting out over 100ft ib torque more than where I was estimated at.
Great journey for sure, I bet with some seat time you will be up there. Also, the octane will certainly make quite a big difference after driving around.
Is there any way you can make some logs and send to your tuner to make sure all is well with the tune? your feeling of slow 50-70 makes me think something is happening there.
I was able to look at the data logs on the dyno and they where pretty good looking. I have some tuning experience with my big turbo 2JZ IS300. Nothing he was showing me in my mind was really sticking out or throwing a red flag.
Let me clarify my 50 to 70 foot out comment. I will use the dyno sheets to explain what I am feeling now.
At this power level (this was before downpipes and HPFPs) the tq ramps up hard around 3000 rpm and peak tq is around 4100 rpm . I would hold the race start, build boost, and the car went a 1.72 sixty foot to a 3.17s 0 to 60 pull as pictured below.
The motor is producing TQ further out in the RPM. That little delay helps apply power smoother which nets the quicker time. It also allow the car to get up to speed faster through the 1/8 mile, just like your e63s. The difference is you have the HP to carry the big end.
After I installed the catless DP's I took it back to Dyno Comp for a re tune. This was dyno graph. Remember all that was changed was the downpipes.
On the pull the tuner noticed it went lean and got out of it early. However look what happened to the TQ before he aborted the dyno run. It ramped up fast (like diesel fast) and moved peak TQ 1000 rpm earlier. They turned the car down to the be safe, and that day I ordered fuel pumps. I never went out and ran the combo at the 671/752 power level. That was a week before Christmas, and in hind sight I wish I had.
Now with all of the mods in my sig it did this.
TQ ramps hard and peak tq is at 3150 rpm.
Before I did your launch, I did a regular boosted launch and it immediately and violently knocked the tires off and went zero to 60 in like 3.9 seconds.
Using your advice launching and not building boost the car is very manageable. It launches great and tame but most importantly it gives the tire just that little more time 50 ish feet or so before it is subjected to 850 ft lbs and begging for dear life.
I think on the PS4, If I launch like you told me, but back out of the throttle just a tad around the 60 foot mark to calm things and quickly get back it in it.....it should go faster. I just need to be a better driver honestly.
Or if I struggle enough....just add octane and make it up on the big end. lol
I was able to look at the data logs on the dyno and they where pretty good looking. I have some tuning experience with my big turbo 2JZ IS300. Nothing he was showing me in my mind was really sticking out or throwing a red flag.
Let me clarify my 50 to 70 foot out comment. I will use the dyno sheets to explain what I am feeling now.
At this power level (this was before downpipes and HPFPs) the tq ramps up hard around 3000 rpm and peak tq is around 4100 rpm . I would hold the race start, build boost, and the car went a 1.72 sixty foot to a 3.17s 0 to 60 pull as pictured below.
The motor is producing TQ further out in the RPM. That little delay helps apply power smoother which nets the quicker time. It also allow the car to get up to speed faster through the 1/8 mile, just like your e63s. The difference is you have the HP to carry the big end.
After I installed the catless DP's I took it back to Dyno Comp for a re tune. This was dyno graph. Remember all that was changed was the downpipes.
On the pull the tuner noticed it went lean and got out of it early. However look what happened to the TQ before he aborted the dyno run. It ramped up fast (like diesel fast) and moved peak TQ 1000 rpm earlier. They turned the car down to the be safe, and that day I ordered fuel pumps. I never went out and ran the combo at the 671/752 power level. That was a week before Christmas, and in hind sight I wish I had.
Now with all of the mods in my sig it did this.
TQ ramps hard and peak tq is at 3150 rpm.
Before I did your launch, I did a regular boosted launch and it immediately and violently knocked the tires off and went zero to 60 in like 3.9 seconds.
Using your advice launching and not building boost the car is very manageable. It launches great and tame but most importantly it gives the tire just that little more time 50 ish feet or so before it is subjected to 850 ft lbs and begging for dear life.
I think on the PS4, If I launch like you told me, but back out of the throttle just a tad around the 60 foot mark to calm things and quickly get back it in it.....it should go faster. I just need to be a better driver honestly.
Or if I struggle enough....just add octane and make it up on the big end. lol
I mean ... a couple gallons of e85 in your 91 octane nearly full tank and be done 😆
Went back out with a bit more octane. I chipped it down again.
Bit by bit. Wheel spin wasn't as bad with a bit better throttle modulation.
I figured that it would pick up with more octane. Guess not.
Sixty foot was a little better, which lead to a better quarter mile since performance was roughly the same. Just goes to prove how important the sixty foot for ET.
I would imagine, though, if you drop some extra octane in the tank that you need to let that ECU adapt the timing to it over at least 100 miles and certainly by then all of the extra octane is mixed into the tank, what do you think?
Also
If better octane = more power = more fueling needed - I would log and perhaps dyno to make sure fueling keeps up. The same tuner @kponti uses told me to save my money as spool 170's weren't much better then stock, but since the stock turbos run out 200's would be a waste. The takeaway for me was 170s are just marginally better then stock, which maybe the perfect top-up the stock turbos need to be at peak. Or if right on the edge, maybe still run out with some E or 94+ octane. <shrug>
TL;DR be careful with more octane wrt fueling needs and the 170s. I wanna see you succeed!!!!
Last edited by I.T. Guy; Jan 31, 2025 at 01:04 PM.
Also
If better octane = more power = more fueling needed - I would log and perhaps dyno to make sure fueling keeps up. The same tuner @kponti uses told me to save my money as spool 170's weren't much better then stock, but since the stock turbos run out 200's would be a waste. The takeaway for me was 170s are just marginally better then stock, which maybe the perfect top-up the stock turbos need to be at peak. Or if right on the edge, maybe still run out with some E or 94+ octane. <shrug>
TL;DR be careful with more octane wrt fueling needs and the 170s. I wanna see you succeed!!!!
I completely appreciate what you are saying.
I dont know if I agree that the 170's are just marginally better that stock. They completely out performed the stock pumps. They picked up 50 more hp and 50 tq to the tire, while holding commanded fuel pressure. I saw the fuel curve and it was rock solid. I even asked about upping the octane and they said it will be good to go.
Either way, I don't have any immediate plans for the car right now upgrade wise, except maybe a drag radial if I can get those street tires to go a 10.70.
I would imagine, though, if you drop some extra octane in the tank that you need to let that ECU adapt the timing to it over at least 100 miles and certainly by then all of the extra octane is mixed into the tank, what do you think?
I think there is some merit in this. I will continue to mess with it and see how it goes.
Datalogs will go a long way to go hand in hand with dragy runs to show what exactly is happening and what TQ limitations may be occurring.
Many members have no idea or never asked where their TQ limits are set at in their CPC and TCU, some CPC's have low tq values, others have none at all.
To further add to performance issues, CPC's and TCU's are not all created equal unfortunately. CPC needs a good amount of complex tuning invested into it done correctly, for the multiple modules (ECU/CPC/TCU) have the freedom to put down the power correctly. This is very important and can always been seen in datalogs. I have a thread I'm creating soon that I have been working on to compile information on the topic in one place.
Datalogs will go a long way to go hand in hand with dragy runs to show what exactly is happening and what TQ limitations may be occurring.
Many members have no idea or never asked where their TQ limits are set at in their CPC and TCU, some CPC's have low tq values, others have none at all.
To further add to performance issues, CPC's and TCU's are not all created equal unfortunately. CPC needs a good amount of complex tuning invested into it done correctly, for the multiple modules (ECU/CPC/TCU) have the freedom to put down the power correctly. This is very important and can always been seen in datalogs. I have a thread I'm creating soon that I have been working on to compile information on the topic in one place.
Datalogs will go a long way to go hand in hand with dragy runs to show what exactly is happening and what TQ limitations may be occurring.
Many members have no idea or never asked where their TQ limits are set at in their CPC and TCU, some CPC's have low tq values, others have none at all.
To further add to performance issues, CPC's and TCU's are not all created equal unfortunately. CPC needs a good amount of complex tuning invested into it done correctly, for the multiple modules (ECU/CPC/TCU) have the freedom to put down the power correctly. This is very important and can always been seen in datalogs. I have a thread I'm creating soon that I have been working on to compile information on the topic in one place.
Thank you for responding. I am pretty versed in reading datalogs. So my question is, what is the best datalogger for the W213 E63s? I have the Launch scanner that reads and records live data. In other platforms I have used SCT and HP Tuners to tune and datalog cars, but for the W213...I don't know yet.
Thank you for responding. I am pretty versed in reading datalogs. So my question is, what is the best datalogger for the W213 E63s? I have the Launch scanner that reads and records live data. In other platforms I have used SCT and HP Tuners to tune and datalog cars, but for the W213...I don't know yet.
Possible to use launch, i never used it personally to datalog or to transfer a log to a computer or graph it. I have used HP tuners with M177, it gives some basic parameters like intake manifold pressure, iats, throttle and timing, but nothing advanced, but will give you the basics. Someting that would cover everything you need, you would need something like autotuner or Bflash, what most tuners or tuning dealer use to flash, have good datalogging capabilities. Some tuners offer datalogging in the flash software to the end customers aswell. But if you have HP tuners, give that a go for sure! May have to add a few channels from the options list. DM me if you need any help.
So being a complete gearhead and not being able to leave well enough alone.....I have swapped ECU tunes. I am in the final process of revisions with the new company. I will post another full thread like this one. I wont have the dyno data, but I have all of the draggy data. Stay tuned.
So, I wanted to give Dyno Comp a real shot at E30 tune. I run E30 (Shell 91 Octane and Torco T85 mix) on all of my high performance boosted vehicles. I had them install my 63 Motorsports Catch Cans and a Black Boost Gen 2 Intake. I also purchased a PowerGate so I am able to switch between my 91 octane tune and my E30 tune. The stock turbos are maxed out. The low side fuel pressure pump, is holding rock steady. I was worried I would have upgrade. Here is the new power level, but I did ask them turn it down and they did.
The turned down numbers are 737/881, but I forgot to take a picture. I will add it later.
When it cools down, I will go out and re-run the draggy tests. I am also going to work on figuring out what launch control rpms to leave on as well.
So, I wanted to give Dyno Comp a real shot at E30 tune. I run E30 (Shell 91 Octane and Torco T85 mix) on all of my high performance boosted vehicles. I had them install my 63 Motorsports Catch Cans and a Black Boost Gen 2 Intake. I also purchased a PowerGate so I am able to switch between my 91 octane tune and my E30 tune. The stock turbos are maxed out. The low side fuel pressure pump, is holding rock steady. I was worried I would have upgrade. Here is the new power level, but I did ask them turn it down and they did.
The turned down numbers are 737/881, but I forgot to take a picture. I will add it later.
When it cools down, I will go out and re-run the draggy tests. I am also going to work on figuring out what launch control rpms to leave on as well.
Did you go and do these new runs ? great thread for a newbie on the W213... I'm in search of a datalogging solution however not prepared to pay these ridiculous prices of over USD3000 for this capability..
Did you go and do these new runs ? great thread for a newbie on the W213... I'm in search of a datalogging solution however not prepared to pay these ridiculous prices of over USD3000 for this capability..
I haven't gotten out. Phoenix is still pretty warm, and I really want a comparable temp and DA so we can see if there is a big performance gain. I think that I will struggle to put the power to the ground, and will have to figure some things out to go faster to be honest.
I haven't gotten out. Phoenix is still pretty warm, and I really want a comparable temp and DA so we can see if there is a big performance gain. I think that I will struggle to put the power to the ground, and will have to figure some things out to go faster to be honest.
Makes sense, always good to try keep the possible variations to a minimum. Must be nice to have that issue, to much power to put it down lol.. I am just starting out on this road of mods. Begun testing results of a downpipes and stage 1 tune to see the gains. Want to start playing with a little eth in the mix as well and see if there is any decent gains from it. Our fuel here is really crappy low quality so i think there should be gains in it.
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