Test Drive of 05 Acura TL, NO big whoop!
04-21-2006, 02:19 PM
#51
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05' C230K Sport Sedan
so what's wrong with going for a brand name?
Brand name does not come in one day. Mercedes-benz was one of the first car maker who put car into commercial use. It takes them more than a hundred year of time and effort to build the reputation of three-point-star it's got today.
Yeah, TL is a nice car. It's fast, well-performed, stylish, luxury, and very reliable - there's no doubt about that. But let's face it. It is the first day you drive your new car. When you park your car in a parking lot, step out of it, and walk into your office or classroom. Those people around you, who you know or you don't, will probably be thinking or wispering, "damn, that guy is driving a Mercedes!" Chances of "damn, that guy is driving an Acura!"? hmm...not so likely.
Acura makes very nice car. In some respects it out-performed many others. But there is one thing that Acura is always chasing, and that's a brand name like a Mercedes-Benz. No one will doube about that - not even the president of Honda/Acura.
And how to get there? Keep making better and better cars.
Who's the winner? We the customers who drive better and better cars.
As long as everyone drives the car he/she enjoys, everyone is the winner.
Brand name does not come in one day. Mercedes-benz was one of the first car maker who put car into commercial use. It takes them more than a hundred year of time and effort to build the reputation of three-point-star it's got today.
Yeah, TL is a nice car. It's fast, well-performed, stylish, luxury, and very reliable - there's no doubt about that. But let's face it. It is the first day you drive your new car. When you park your car in a parking lot, step out of it, and walk into your office or classroom. Those people around you, who you know or you don't, will probably be thinking or wispering, "damn, that guy is driving a Mercedes!" Chances of "damn, that guy is driving an Acura!"? hmm...not so likely.
Acura makes very nice car. In some respects it out-performed many others. But there is one thing that Acura is always chasing, and that's a brand name like a Mercedes-Benz. No one will doube about that - not even the president of Honda/Acura.
And how to get there? Keep making better and better cars.
Who's the winner? We the customers who drive better and better cars.
As long as everyone drives the car he/she enjoys, everyone is the winner.
04-21-2006, 04:06 PM
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a quarter mile at a time
Originally Posted by TA-9FF
Yeah, I know this thread is old, but who cares.....
I used to have a 2001 Honda Accord, and I have to admit, it was extremely reliable. Even though the engine was pretty weak, and it needed at least a 5 speed tranny, it was a pretty fun car to drive.
Then a 2004 G500 rear ended me going about 30............
After seeing the damage done to my Accord, I really didn't want to be in another Honda/Acura that can't seem to hold its structural strength from a "mere" 30mph collision. My dealer's collision bodyshop said there was a small frame fracture in the rear passenger side, but he said he could still "fix her up as good as new". No thanks.
I've seen Benz's that were hit at faster speeds that looked better than my now dead Accord. After the accident, I just seriously questioned Honda/Acuras about their safety and build materials, and decided to go with a company that, in my opinion, built more solid, safer cars.
So ironically, thanks to the guy in the GWagen that totaled my Accord, I bought a 2006 C230 SS, and it's been nothing short of spectacular. Granted, the discussion was about a TL, not an Accord, but eh......Honda's and Acura's are all basically the same to me now. In Japan, they don't even have Acura's........all "Acura"'s there are all badged with Honda emblems anyways, so it doesn't make much difference to me.
In the end it's all a matter of personal preference, IMHO. And it's IMHO that Honda's build their cars from what seems like cardboard metal. I'm only too glad I did not have any friends sitting in the back, otherwise they'd be hospitalized.
I used to have a 2001 Honda Accord, and I have to admit, it was extremely reliable. Even though the engine was pretty weak, and it needed at least a 5 speed tranny, it was a pretty fun car to drive.
Then a 2004 G500 rear ended me going about 30............
After seeing the damage done to my Accord, I really didn't want to be in another Honda/Acura that can't seem to hold its structural strength from a "mere" 30mph collision. My dealer's collision bodyshop said there was a small frame fracture in the rear passenger side, but he said he could still "fix her up as good as new". No thanks.
I've seen Benz's that were hit at faster speeds that looked better than my now dead Accord. After the accident, I just seriously questioned Honda/Acuras about their safety and build materials, and decided to go with a company that, in my opinion, built more solid, safer cars.
So ironically, thanks to the guy in the GWagen that totaled my Accord, I bought a 2006 C230 SS, and it's been nothing short of spectacular. Granted, the discussion was about a TL, not an Accord, but eh......Honda's and Acura's are all basically the same to me now. In Japan, they don't even have Acura's........all "Acura"'s there are all badged with Honda emblems anyways, so it doesn't make much difference to me.
In the end it's all a matter of personal preference, IMHO. And it's IMHO that Honda's build their cars from what seems like cardboard metal. I'm only too glad I did not have any friends sitting in the back, otherwise they'd be hospitalized.
With that said, I have owned 2 Honda's, a 96 Civic EX Coupe, and a 2001 Accord EX V6 Sedan. I didn't have any problems with either car. It's a well known fact that Toyota/Honda lead the industry in reliability ratings so I don't know what the argument is.
I do not own a TL but have driven the 3rd gen TL. It's a very very nice car. With the new SAE rating system, the hp has been lowered to 258? hp. Those of you who are bashing it should at least try test driving it.
In the end, I chose to buy a C350 Sport instead of a TL. There's no question in my mind that stock for stock, my car is faster. MB engines produce far more torque far earlier than Honda engines normally do. I also think that there are certain things about MB's that make them worth thier price premium. Even a "baby benz" C-Class is built like a tank. I still haven't been able to find a unsupported bumper or fender unlike how Honda makes thier bumpers. As for styrofoam, I don't think it's there to increase crashworthiness, but I could be wrong.
04-21-2006, 11:39 PM
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'03 C32
I believe the TL is actually on the same platform as the Accord and built in the same Marysville, OH factory. In that light, it's not that affordable after all.
I test drove a new TL before deciding on a lightly used '03 C32. The TL drove nicely, had great gadgets and was sure to be reliable, but the torque steer was pretty annoying and low end power not that impressive.
C32 was more expensive, had the risk of mechnical/electrical problems written about extensively on these boards, but was just loads more fun.
Glad I went with the C32. It's been as fun as on day 1, with surprisingly good reliability.
I test drove a new TL before deciding on a lightly used '03 C32. The TL drove nicely, had great gadgets and was sure to be reliable, but the torque steer was pretty annoying and low end power not that impressive.
C32 was more expensive, had the risk of mechnical/electrical problems written about extensively on these boards, but was just loads more fun.
Glad I went with the C32. It's been as fun as on day 1, with surprisingly good reliability.
04-23-2006, 04:23 AM
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Mercedes is gone physically, but still in my heart.
Well, I'd have to say I'm the perfect split for this argument. I have a 2003 Mercedes C240, my father, a 2005 Acura TL.
Performance: I don't know what the maker of the thread was talking about, but there's PLENTY of power in the TL and it can take my car, along with C320s with a fair amount of ease. The TL wins that battle.
Suspension/Handling/Ride comfort: C240 wins this, the TL is a bit stiff, bigger body-car so wider turning radius, the C240 turns on a pinpoint it's also a smoother ride.
Quality: Come on, that's why it's a Mercedes, not an Acura. This shouldn't be a case even needed to be argued, just assume any Mercedes is built better than most cars.
All in all, I think they're two totally different cars. The TL is a bigger sedan, a little sportier, and more on the performance end. The C240 is a small sedan that's all about class and luxury, not performance. So, personally, I love both cars, I'll take my Mercedes though, just because well, it's mine. But I have no issues against the TL, also, the TL is A LOT cheaper on maintenance and lasts longer, but that can be disputed by many.
Performance: I don't know what the maker of the thread was talking about, but there's PLENTY of power in the TL and it can take my car, along with C320s with a fair amount of ease. The TL wins that battle.
Suspension/Handling/Ride comfort: C240 wins this, the TL is a bit stiff, bigger body-car so wider turning radius, the C240 turns on a pinpoint it's also a smoother ride.
Quality: Come on, that's why it's a Mercedes, not an Acura. This shouldn't be a case even needed to be argued, just assume any Mercedes is built better than most cars.
All in all, I think they're two totally different cars. The TL is a bigger sedan, a little sportier, and more on the performance end. The C240 is a small sedan that's all about class and luxury, not performance. So, personally, I love both cars, I'll take my Mercedes though, just because well, it's mine. But I have no issues against the TL, also, the TL is A LOT cheaper on maintenance and lasts longer, but that can be disputed by many.
04-23-2006, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by e1000
It's a well known fact that Toyota/Honda lead the industry in reliability ratings so I don't know what the argument is.
TLs are great cars for the money, but id still rather have the low end benz.
04-24-2006, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by C240Style
Performance: I don't know what the maker of the thread was talking about, but there's PLENTY of power in the TL and it can take my car, along with C320s with a fair amount of ease. The TL wins that battle.
Quality: Come on, that's why it's a Mercedes, not an Acura. This shouldn't be a case even needed to be argued, just assume any Mercedes is built better than most cars.
.
Quality: Come on, that's why it's a Mercedes, not an Acura. This shouldn't be a case even needed to be argued, just assume any Mercedes is built better than most cars.
.
04-24-2006, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by eckc21
And how to get there? Keep making better and better cars.
Who's the winner? We the customers who drive better and better cars.
As long as everyone drives the car he/she enjoys, everyone is the winner.
Who's the winner? We the customers who drive better and better cars.
As long as everyone drives the car he/she enjoys, everyone is the winner.
04-24-2006, 03:23 PM
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C32
Originally Posted by TA-9FF
Yeah, I know this thread is old, but who cares.....
I used to have a 2001 Honda Accord, and I have to admit, it was extremely reliable. Even though the engine was pretty weak, and it needed at least a 5 speed tranny, it was a pretty fun car to drive.
Then a 2004 G500 rear ended me going about 30............
After seeing the damage done to my Accord, I really didn't want to be in another Honda/Acura that can't seem to hold its structural strength from a "mere" 30mph collision. My dealer's collision bodyshop said there was a small frame fracture in the rear passenger side, but he said he could still "fix her up as good as new". No thanks.
I've seen Benz's that were hit at faster speeds that looked better than my now dead Accord. After the accident, I just seriously questioned Honda/Acuras about their safety and build materials, and decided to go with a company that, in my opinion, built more solid, safer cars.
So ironically, thanks to the guy in the GWagen that totaled my Accord, I bought a 2006 C230 SS, and it's been nothing short of spectacular. Granted, the discussion was about a TL, not an Accord, but eh......Honda's and Acura's are all basically the same to me now. In Japan, they don't even have Acura's........all "Acura"'s there are all badged with Honda emblems anyways, so it doesn't make much difference to me.
In the end it's all a matter of personal preference, IMHO. And it's IMHO that Honda's build their cars from what seems like cardboard metal. I'm only too glad I did not have any friends sitting in the back, otherwise they'd be hospitalized.
I used to have a 2001 Honda Accord, and I have to admit, it was extremely reliable. Even though the engine was pretty weak, and it needed at least a 5 speed tranny, it was a pretty fun car to drive.
Then a 2004 G500 rear ended me going about 30............
After seeing the damage done to my Accord, I really didn't want to be in another Honda/Acura that can't seem to hold its structural strength from a "mere" 30mph collision. My dealer's collision bodyshop said there was a small frame fracture in the rear passenger side, but he said he could still "fix her up as good as new". No thanks.
I've seen Benz's that were hit at faster speeds that looked better than my now dead Accord. After the accident, I just seriously questioned Honda/Acuras about their safety and build materials, and decided to go with a company that, in my opinion, built more solid, safer cars.
So ironically, thanks to the guy in the GWagen that totaled my Accord, I bought a 2006 C230 SS, and it's been nothing short of spectacular. Granted, the discussion was about a TL, not an Accord, but eh......Honda's and Acura's are all basically the same to me now. In Japan, they don't even have Acura's........all "Acura"'s there are all badged with Honda emblems anyways, so it doesn't make much difference to me.
In the end it's all a matter of personal preference, IMHO. And it's IMHO that Honda's build their cars from what seems like cardboard metal. I'm only too glad I did not have any friends sitting in the back, otherwise they'd be hospitalized.
While the C-class can probably hold up better than most econoboxes and older family sedans, it's not the king of the hill in its class. Just go to the latest NHTSA results and have a look for yourself.
04-26-2006, 06:17 AM
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2001 ML320 E, 2003 C230K Sport Sedan
C'mon;
It makes me sick to see how Acura stole the Merc Door handles and the Merc Perf Leather. But what really gets me is the crappy Gas tank door release. Open the door and look into the fender of your Merc, you see a nice seal - oops they forgot that on the Acura. Actually, they forgot a whole bunch of stuff on the Acura.....it a vehicle for someone who can't tell the difference.
Take a look at the MDX......what a POS.....First thing to get bashed on that is the exaust.
Acur* is all rice crap by comparison...Junk....half done.....cheap Jap copy....fall apart in 5 years....Rolex vs Seiko
It makes me sick to see how Acura stole the Merc Door handles and the Merc Perf Leather. But what really gets me is the crappy Gas tank door release. Open the door and look into the fender of your Merc, you see a nice seal - oops they forgot that on the Acura. Actually, they forgot a whole bunch of stuff on the Acura.....it a vehicle for someone who can't tell the difference.
Take a look at the MDX......what a POS.....First thing to get bashed on that is the exaust.
Acur* is all rice crap by comparison...Junk....half done.....cheap Jap copy....fall apart in 5 years....Rolex vs Seiko
04-26-2006, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by fasteddie
C'mon;
It makes me sick to see how Acura stole the Merc Door handles and the Merc Perf Leather. But what really gets me is the crappy Gas tank door release. Open the door and look into the fender of your Merc, you see a nice seal - oops they forgot that on the Acura. Actually, they forgot a whole bunch of stuff on the Acura.....it a vehicle for someone who can't tell the difference.
Take a look at the MDX......what a POS.....First thing to get bashed on that is the exaust.
Acur* is all rice crap by comparison...Junk....half done.....cheap Jap copy....fall apart in 5 years....Rolex vs Seiko
It makes me sick to see how Acura stole the Merc Door handles and the Merc Perf Leather. But what really gets me is the crappy Gas tank door release. Open the door and look into the fender of your Merc, you see a nice seal - oops they forgot that on the Acura. Actually, they forgot a whole bunch of stuff on the Acura.....it a vehicle for someone who can't tell the difference.
Take a look at the MDX......what a POS.....First thing to get bashed on that is the exaust.
Acur* is all rice crap by comparison...Junk....half done.....cheap Jap copy....fall apart in 5 years....Rolex vs Seiko
04-26-2006, 07:41 PM
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a quarter mile at a time
Originally Posted by Evil Duffman
reliability ratings is not the same as crash test ratings. Toyota's pale in comparison to MB, our old celica (beater) was a POS. IT was nearly totalled in a front end collision at 30 mph (it was a 2001). It may have gotten good mileage, and needed to be serviced less, but if we had been going 60 we would have been dead.
TLs are great cars for the money, but id still rather have the low end benz.
TLs are great cars for the money, but id still rather have the low end benz.
Not saying that Acuras are the greatest cars ever built but I definitely think they are worth the money and worth consideration.
04-26-2006, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by e1000
I agree that reliability is not the same as crash test ratings. Acura/Honda is definitely up there in reliability however.
Not saying that Acuras are the greatest cars ever built but I definitely think they are worth the money and worth consideration.
Not saying that Acuras are the greatest cars ever built but I definitely think they are worth the money and worth consideration.
Only if you don't count things like Transmissions.....and don't forget they got their electrical gremlins as well.
What gets me is that it seems that just about everything on a Merc that causes problems seems to have BOSCH stamped on it. Yet BMW and AUDI have the same suppliers, and fewer problems.
Honda, fortunately for them, doesn't have to deal with BOSCH.
04-26-2006, 10:31 PM
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a quarter mile at a time
Originally Posted by fasteddie
Only if you don't count things like Transmissions.....and don't forget they got their electrical gremlins as well.
What gets me is that it seems that just about everything on a Merc that causes problems seems to have BOSCH stamped on it. Yet BMW and AUDI have the same suppliers, and fewer problems.
Honda, fortunately for them, doesn't have to deal with BOSCH.
What gets me is that it seems that just about everything on a Merc that causes problems seems to have BOSCH stamped on it. Yet BMW and AUDI have the same suppliers, and fewer problems.
Honda, fortunately for them, doesn't have to deal with BOSCH.
04-27-2006, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by fasteddie
Yet BMW and AUDI have the same suppliers, and fewer problems.
The same company may be making some of the parts used on both, but that doesn't mean the parts are the same- even if its the same type of part. Things like wire connectors, bolt patterns, form factors, all are often different- even though the parts serve the same function. Then there's 'which supplier plant is it made in' because not all are just as good under the same supplier, how much the OEM is paying for the part, and who owns rejects, defects, and inthe field failures( this really makes a difference), and if the OEM is supporting the vendor with SQE's and SCA's.
04-27-2006, 12:19 PM
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C55 ///AMG, 535xi
my friend has a burgundy 04 3.2TL, no biggie.
car does look pretty sharp, but power wise, its still crappy.
I considered the 03 3.2TL but ended up buying a 03 G35 sedan, but that crappy car had a major mechanical breakdown and I got 90% refund and ended up buying a c320
car does look pretty sharp, but power wise, its still crappy.
I considered the 03 3.2TL but ended up buying a 03 G35 sedan, but that crappy car had a major mechanical breakdown and I got 90% refund and ended up buying a c320
04-27-2006, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by advans
my friend has a burgundy 04 3.2TL, no biggie.
car does look pretty sharp, but power wise, its still crappy.
I considered the 03 3.2TL but ended up buying a 03 G35 sedan, but that crappy car had a major mechanical breakdown and I got 90% refund and ended up buying a c320
car does look pretty sharp, but power wise, its still crappy.
I considered the 03 3.2TL but ended up buying a 03 G35 sedan, but that crappy car had a major mechanical breakdown and I got 90% refund and ended up buying a c320
1.) It's going to age like crazy and look old in a few years; the Benz will age better.
2.) Infiniti must've taken classes at how to build interiors at Detroit, instead of at Zuffenhausen. Those plastics in the interior are awful and seemed like it'll deteriorate, even with care.
And quite honestly, the age issue is predominant with all Japanese cars. I have yet to see a Japanese car age well...........except maybe the 1995 Toyota Supra Turbo; as far as luxury sedans goes, there has been none for me that looks timeless.
04-27-2006, 02:24 PM
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Dia Blk '06 C230 w/3 pedals
Originally Posted by fasteddie
C'mon;
It makes me sick to see how Acura stole the Merc Door handles and the Merc Perf Leather. But what really gets me is the crappy Gas tank door release. Open the door and look into the fender of your Merc, you see a nice seal - oops they forgot that on the Acura. Actually, they forgot a whole bunch of stuff on the Acura.....it a vehicle for someone who can't tell the difference.
Take a look at the MDX......what a POS.....First thing to get bashed on that is the exaust.
Acur* is all rice crap by comparison...Junk....half done.....cheap Jap copy....fall apart in 5 years....Rolex vs Seiko
It makes me sick to see how Acura stole the Merc Door handles and the Merc Perf Leather. But what really gets me is the crappy Gas tank door release. Open the door and look into the fender of your Merc, you see a nice seal - oops they forgot that on the Acura. Actually, they forgot a whole bunch of stuff on the Acura.....it a vehicle for someone who can't tell the difference.
Take a look at the MDX......what a POS.....First thing to get bashed on that is the exaust.
Acur* is all rice crap by comparison...Junk....half done.....cheap Jap copy....fall apart in 5 years....Rolex vs Seiko
Mercedes invented perforated leather?
OH
MY
GAWD
!!!
Lessee - I see plenty 1980/early 1990 honda civics & accords on the road...more than Mercedes (how many 190e's do you see on a daily basis)? And there are plenty 1st generation Integras & Legends running around out there.
04-27-2006, 03:13 PM
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C32
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Mercedes invented perforated leather?
OH
MY
GAWD
!!!
Lessee - I see plenty 1980/early 1990 honda civics & accords on the road...more than Mercedes (how many 190e's do you see on a daily basis)? And there are plenty 1st generation Integras & Legends running around out there.
OH
MY
GAWD
!!!
Lessee - I see plenty 1980/early 1990 honda civics & accords on the road...more than Mercedes (how many 190e's do you see on a daily basis)? And there are plenty 1st generation Integras & Legends running around out there.
Last edited by ultraseven; 04-27-2006 at 03:16 PM.
04-27-2006, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ultraseven
No offense, but don't forget a lot of C230K owners on this board are led to believe they own the best cars in the world. It's easy to start bashing other makes, Japanese, British, etc., after feeding the bottom ladder of the 3 pointed star club.
Would YOU pay $45-50k for a "top of the line" Acura RL or $45-50k for a C55 AMG? Dunno what everyone else would pick, but I'd go with the C55.....even if it's the "bottom ladder".
04-27-2006, 03:30 PM
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Dia Blk '06 C230 w/3 pedals
Originally Posted by ultraseven
No offense, but don't forget a lot of C230K owners on this board are led to believe they own the best cars in the world. It's easy to start bashing other makes, Japanese, British, etc., after feeding the bottom ladder of the 3 pointed star club.
My motto is call a spade a spade. While the quality control of european manufacturers has raised tremendously since 'the old days', they still can't touch the Japanese in that regard. At least not yet.
04-27-2006, 03:46 PM
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C32
Originally Posted by TA-9FF
No one's bashing British.....we just don't respect Japanese.
Would YOU pay $45-50k for a "top of the line" Acura RL or $45-50k for a C55 AMG? Dunno what everyone else would pick, but I'd go with the C55.....even if it's the "bottom ladder".
Would YOU pay $45-50k for a "top of the line" Acura RL or $45-50k for a C55 AMG? Dunno what everyone else would pick, but I'd go with the C55.....even if it's the "bottom ladder".
04-27-2006, 03:48 PM
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C32
Originally Posted by anonymouse
My motto is call a spade a spade. While the quality control of european manufacturers has raised tremendously since 'the old days', they still can't touch the Japanese in that regard. At least not yet.
04-27-2006, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ultraseven
Agreed, and the domestic are actually catching up to the European makes in terms of quality.
No car is flawless, all of them have issues whether we want to believe it or not. In the end, I guess all that's left is style, design, and how it makes you FEEL. Lexus is without question awesome with their reliability. But then ask any LS430 owner though, and they'll probably tell you the car is boring as hell to drive, but damn easy to own and maint.
I personally won't ever buy American or Japanese anymore. I just think they're dull, and have their own share of problems. And that's just my opinion. Call me discriminative, call me a hater, call me whatever. I just dig Euro cars.
My "favourite car of all time" and most likely for the rest of my life is the 911 Turbo, and I'm sure no one will disagree it's the world's most reliable supercar. But I digress.....
Last edited by TA-9FF; 04-27-2006 at 07:10 PM.
04-27-2006, 07:36 PM
#75
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Nov 2005
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a quarter mile at a time
Originally Posted by ultraseven
No offense, but don't forget a lot of C230K owners on this board are led to believe they own the best cars in the world. It's easy to start bashing other makes, Japanese, British, etc., after feeding the bottom ladder of the 3 pointed star club.
