Final verdict on springs? Eibach? H&R? Kleeman? Confusion reigns!
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: So. Oregon Coast
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort RIP
Final verdict on springs? Eibach? H&R? Kleeman? Confusion reigns!
So far I've gathered that the Kleeman springs seem good to one person who installeed them with stock shocks.
And I think they said they put sway bars too.
Do we need sway bars? I thought good springs negated that need.
The H&R "cup kit" (WTF is a "cup kit"? Are their shocks and springs with it? What kind of shocks?)
makes the car too low, and rides like crap.
Eibach....I have questions. What the opinion of those who've intalled them. Did they buy a kit or seperate springs and shocks,
or use any existing stock components.
Other options?
I'm ready to upgrade my suspension! So much potential, but it sure sucks stock!
And I think they said they put sway bars too.
Do we need sway bars? I thought good springs negated that need.
The H&R "cup kit" (WTF is a "cup kit"? Are their shocks and springs with it? What kind of shocks?)
makes the car too low, and rides like crap.
Eibach....I have questions. What the opinion of those who've intalled them. Did they buy a kit or seperate springs and shocks,
or use any existing stock components.
Other options?
I'm ready to upgrade my suspension! So much potential, but it sure sucks stock!
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Oro Valley, AZ
2001 C240 6spd
I agree - I think buying springs is like choosing wheels - so many options and opinions. I would just like to change springs to start. H&R cup kit is a spring/shock set - lowers the car a little more than if you bought springs and shocks separately. Which also should not be confused with coilovers.
Companies claim various lowering values - seem like Kleemann and Eibach (Eibach manufactures the springs for Kleemann) has the least amount of lowering. That is why I am leaning towards them. Both can be used with the original shock.
I think you will get numerous opinions - you will just need to pick one that you feel will fit your needs.
Companies claim various lowering values - seem like Kleemann and Eibach (Eibach manufactures the springs for Kleemann) has the least amount of lowering. That is why I am leaning towards them. Both can be used with the original shock.
I think you will get numerous opinions - you will just need to pick one that you feel will fit your needs.
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From: From Oxnard; living in Ocean View Hills, San Diego, CA
'01 C320 SS
Originally posted by Buellwinkle
When someone figures it all out tell me. I don't want to buy tires twice as often and I don't want the rear lowered as much as the front.
When someone figures it all out tell me. I don't want to buy tires twice as often and I don't want the rear lowered as much as the front.
C320 [s]
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From: ft ladi
'02 c230 coupe
i have the pro kit, but not yet installed. To be quite honest, i really want to return it and wait for OMP to come out with a nice spring, sway bar and strut bar combo. Add a set of koni adjustables and that will be one hell of a setup.
The eibachs really look like a top notch product and you probably get the most bang for the buck, afterall, the kleemann are the same spring as the eibach, with a price tag over $100 more.
The eibachs really look like a top notch product and you probably get the most bang for the buck, afterall, the kleemann are the same spring as the eibach, with a price tag over $100 more.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 470
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From: Sydney, Australia
01 C200 Kompressor, 02 C32 AMG
I've got Eibach springs installed when my car was only a few days old, never gave me any problems at all even with stock shocks.....its a bit bumpier than stock but still comfortable. Lowered the car about 30mm front and back I think.
Overall I'm pretty happy with it
Overall I'm pretty happy with it
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Originally posted by shtatc
I agree - I think buying springs is like choosing wheels - so many options and opinions. I would just like to change springs to start. H&R cup kit is a spring/shock set - lowers the car a little more than if you bought springs and shocks separately. Which also should not be confused with coilovers.
Companies claim various lowering values - seem like Kleemann and Eibach (Eibach manufactures the springs for Kleemann) has the least amount of lowering. That is why I am leaning towards them. Both can be used with the original shock.
I think you will get numerous opinions - you will just need to pick one that you feel will fit your needs.
I agree - I think buying springs is like choosing wheels - so many options and opinions. I would just like to change springs to start. H&R cup kit is a spring/shock set - lowers the car a little more than if you bought springs and shocks separately. Which also should not be confused with coilovers.
Companies claim various lowering values - seem like Kleemann and Eibach (Eibach manufactures the springs for Kleemann) has the least amount of lowering. That is why I am leaning towards them. Both can be used with the original shock.
I think you will get numerous opinions - you will just need to pick one that you feel will fit your needs.
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From: ft ladi
'02 c230 coupe
(cont.) sorry, hit the submit button too soon.
If this is true, you should really talk to some of your sales reps. The one I spoke to told me this and actually used it as a sales pitch to promote your springs. When i saw the eibachs at $150 less, i jumped on them.
If this is true, you should really talk to some of your sales reps. The one I spoke to told me this and actually used it as a sales pitch to promote your springs. When i saw the eibachs at $150 less, i jumped on them.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Brisbane, Australia
C200K (w204)
i had eibach with 19, it lowered ok but not low enough (at least for my taste) at the front, the back is pretty good. If u never have lowered car before, this spring will make you feel good, but after some time, i feel the car become too bouncy (well, it may have been bouncy the first day i changed to eibach), changing the spring is not enough, i recomend you to change the shocks as well.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Oro Valley, AZ
2001 C240 6spd
KLEEMANN,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eibach does not manufacture our springs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kleemann,
I guess confusion continues to reign - if I am not mistaken - I have read on this forum that Eibach did manufacture your springs...sorry to be wrong. Regardless of who manufactures your springs, I think I am leaning towards the Kleemann springs - and then wait to get the speed sensitive dampers at a later date.
Thanks for clarifying,
Scott
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eibach does not manufacture our springs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kleemann,
I guess confusion continues to reign - if I am not mistaken - I have read on this forum that Eibach did manufacture your springs...sorry to be wrong. Regardless of who manufactures your springs, I think I am leaning towards the Kleemann springs - and then wait to get the speed sensitive dampers at a later date.
Thanks for clarifying,
Scott
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 206
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From: Toronto, Ontario Canada
C230 Coupe
Im going to buy a set of of spring in the next couple of weeks, I was going to get a set of H&R's because they seem to lower the car the most, but since reading this Im assuming the more you lower, the need to replace shocks & struts becomes evident. So just to clarify, If I were to purchase Eibach springs, there would not need any replacement of any other parts? Also someone posted that Eibach only drops about 30mm, if this drop even noticeable? How much does the Kleemna drop and does that need any replacement of anything?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Earth
GLB 250 4matic
Originally posted by shtatc
KLEEMANN,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eibach does not manufacture our springs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kleemann,
I guess confusion continues to reign - if I am not mistaken - I have read on this forum that Eibach did manufacture your springs...sorry to be wrong. Regardless of who manufactures your springs, I think I am leaning towards the Kleemann springs - and then wait to get the speed sensitive dampers at a later date.
Thanks for clarifying,
Scott
KLEEMANN,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eibach does not manufacture our springs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kleemann,
I guess confusion continues to reign - if I am not mistaken - I have read on this forum that Eibach did manufacture your springs...sorry to be wrong. Regardless of who manufactures your springs, I think I am leaning towards the Kleemann springs - and then wait to get the speed sensitive dampers at a later date.
Thanks for clarifying,
Scott
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 269
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From: Henderson, NV
Alabaster White C230K Grey Int. and 2003 C32 pewter/charcoal gray
When i called H & R tech guy to ask if i need a new shock for their spring he said no...he said the spring will match the stock shocks...now its getting more confusing...cause some people say h&r are good...now its eibach....hmm..i think i better hold on this ...
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: So. Oregon Coast
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort RIP
Yanks!
OK, since I don't have a handy dandy conversion table handy,
how much is 30mm in inches?
I agree with Beull, I mostly want the front lowered...
looks dorky now...the stock suspension tend to slosh too and fro front to back to when hitting a bump at speed...I want better control, without being too ricey. The back with C7's looks fine to me as far as heigth.
And whats a damper? Is that what limeys call shocks? :-)
So, seem the subject is still confusing.
How much is the Eibach Pro-Kit?
Not having to do major alignment work would be good....
for those of you who have yet to have an alignment,
if you don't get one under warranty during the 1st year,
yer gonna ger f'd, since one thing MBZ did to save $$ on this car was to not have any adjustments for the alignment.
The adjustment bolts need to be INSTALLED at the time of alignment. The dealer spent hours putting them in when I was having issues with pulling right....just glad those hours were on MBZ's dime!
how much is 30mm in inches?
I agree with Beull, I mostly want the front lowered...
looks dorky now...the stock suspension tend to slosh too and fro front to back to when hitting a bump at speed...I want better control, without being too ricey. The back with C7's looks fine to me as far as heigth.
And whats a damper? Is that what limeys call shocks? :-)
So, seem the subject is still confusing.
How much is the Eibach Pro-Kit?
Not having to do major alignment work would be good....
for those of you who have yet to have an alignment,
if you don't get one under warranty during the 1st year,
yer gonna ger f'd, since one thing MBZ did to save $$ on this car was to not have any adjustments for the alignment.
The adjustment bolts need to be INSTALLED at the time of alignment. The dealer spent hours putting them in when I was having issues with pulling right....just glad those hours were on MBZ's dime!
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 247
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From: Vancouver, WA
2001 C240 / 6-speed
I think there is some indirect relationship between the amount the spring lowers the car and the shock's effictivenes in controlling that spring, but I think there is a better thing to measure.
More directly, the spring's spring rate (lbs/inch of travel) should have a proportional dampening device (shock absorber) to the spring rate.
According to H&R's web site, their spring rates are 25-30% stiffer than stock. According the Eibach's (Pro Kit) they are 15-20% stiffer. This probably explains why you can blow out stock shocks with H&R's and there is less chance of that with Eibach's.
Yes, the H&R's lower more, but, by definition the lower they go, the stiffer they have to be (higher spring rate) because the forces that compress the spring are the same (bumps, dips, etc.) yet the travel of the spring is less. Its simple math.
I have Eibach Pro-Kits and Koni Sports on order for my C240/6. Both are advertised to be about 20% stiffer than stock. A nice matched set.
More directly, the spring's spring rate (lbs/inch of travel) should have a proportional dampening device (shock absorber) to the spring rate.
According to H&R's web site, their spring rates are 25-30% stiffer than stock. According the Eibach's (Pro Kit) they are 15-20% stiffer. This probably explains why you can blow out stock shocks with H&R's and there is less chance of that with Eibach's.
Yes, the H&R's lower more, but, by definition the lower they go, the stiffer they have to be (higher spring rate) because the forces that compress the spring are the same (bumps, dips, etc.) yet the travel of the spring is less. Its simple math.
I have Eibach Pro-Kits and Koni Sports on order for my C240/6. Both are advertised to be about 20% stiffer than stock. A nice matched set.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,263
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From: So. Oregon Coast
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort RIP
Patronus,
so the Eibach "Pro kit" contains, what?
Just springs?
And are their Koni's available for the coupe?
What did this $et you back?
(In US dollars...)
so the Eibach "Pro kit" contains, what?
Just springs?
And are their Koni's available for the coupe?
What did this $et you back?
(In US dollars...)
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,067
Likes: 11
From: Westwood, NJ
2004 Civic Si. FWD for the Win!
"Pro Kit" is their weird designation for a set of four springs. Don't ask me why they call it a kit. It's like Carrot Top; don't try to understand it, just move on with other things.
I've had Eibachs in my crx for about 4 years now. They did settle a little with time, but I beat the crap out of that car; your results may vary.
I've had Eibachs in my crx for about 4 years now. They did settle a little with time, but I beat the crap out of that car; your results may vary.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 875
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From: Los Angeles
2002 c230k
The reason your shocks go is because they hit the end of their travel too often on a very low car. If you don't lower the car too much or don't bottom out then the shocks will last. The new shock should be designed to operate in a longer travel range, not the same as stock or you will end up with another set of dead shocks. The Kleemann variable rate springs are a great idea to keep a nice ride but handle when needed, all with stock shocks!
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,263
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From: So. Oregon Coast
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort RIP
Prices!
So....
Can you guys give me prices (approx) on the various options?
The Eibach springs aren't variable rate?
The only way I even know about any of this stuff is from reading here.
Who sells/installs this stuff in either the Monterey Bay, or SF Bay Area (south bay)?
Can you guys give me prices (approx) on the various options?
The Eibach springs aren't variable rate?
The only way I even know about any of this stuff is from reading here.
Who sells/installs this stuff in either the Monterey Bay, or SF Bay Area (south bay)?
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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From: Colorado
OK, since I don't have a handy dandy conversion table handy,
30mm=1.18 inches. now ya know!
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 247
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From: Vancouver, WA
2001 C240 / 6-speed
Tirerack sells Eibach, H&R and Koni (among others). That is who I have the Eibach's and Koni's on order from.
The Eibach's are $275, available now. Koni's are about $550 and available in about 3 weeks. Total of about $850.
Visit:
http://www.tirerack.com
The Eibach's are $275, available now. Koni's are about $550 and available in about 3 weeks. Total of about $850.
Visit:
http://www.tirerack.com
MBWorld Fanatic!
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Posts: 6,211
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From: Laguna Niguel, CA
We know it's not Eibach or H&R because they don't make progressive springs. Here's some possibilities.
Sprint Springs - http://www.sprintspring.com/
Progress Springs - http://www.progressauto.com/
Suspension Techniques - http://www.belltechcorp.com/
Most likely candidates that already make progressive rate springs for the W203 -
Intrax - http://www.intraxsuspension.com/
Ultimate Springs - http://www.ultimate-suspension.com
Sprint Springs - http://www.sprintspring.com/
Progress Springs - http://www.progressauto.com/
Suspension Techniques - http://www.belltechcorp.com/
Most likely candidates that already make progressive rate springs for the W203 -
Intrax - http://www.intraxsuspension.com/
Ultimate Springs - http://www.ultimate-suspension.com
