Code P0410
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
Code P0410
On the way to the Rose Bowl meet I got the following code
P0410 Secondary Air Injection System
My OBD reader also showed me that on
Fuel System 1 i was
CL (closed loop?) when on the gas
CL-Fault then OL - Drive when off gas.
I'll do some homeowrk, but anyone have some ideas?
E
P0410 Secondary Air Injection System
My OBD reader also showed me that on
Fuel System 1 i was
CL (closed loop?) when on the gas
CL-Fault then OL - Drive when off gas.
I'll do some homeowrk, but anyone have some ideas?
E
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,211
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From: Laguna Niguel, CA
I had that code once on my C-Coupe and I just reset it and it never came back. The secondary air injection system has a pump and valves and this code can mean any of it is bad and too hard to test on your own. You can tell that the pump is working when you turn the car on you can hear it come on for the first few seconds your engine runs. This is only used during warmup for smog control reasons and it won't affect the operation of the car. Look at it this way, with the oil refinaries spewing smog by you, the least of the worlds problem is your SAI, haha 
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
The issue on this, is that over 3k, the car just doesn't want to pick up and go. Down in the low revs, no differance.
I have a trip to San Fran this weekend, so I need to address this ASAP!
E
I have a trip to San Fran this weekend, so I need to address this ASAP!
E
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,211
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From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Have you ever cleaned the MAF. If the MAF is dirty, but not so dirty that it trips the CEL, the car will feel sluggish. I cleaned the MAF on my kids SLK230 with the M111 motor and it was night and day difference. I may even help with the P0410 as her car showed both a P0171 and P0410 when her MAF was dirty. Get a can of CRC MAF Sensor cleaner at Pep Boys, $6, remove the MAF and then the insert (has 2 security torx screws) and spray the heck of the tip and gold wire from every angle, let it dry for a few seconds, put it back in. Will take you a total of 10 minutes to do.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,212
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From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
Have you ever cleaned the MAF. If the MAF is dirty, but not so dirty that it trips the CEL, the car will feel sluggish. I cleaned the MAF on my kids SLK230 with the M111 motor and it was night and day difference. I may even help with the P0410 as her car showed both a P0171 and P0410 when her MAF was dirty. Get a can of CRC MAF Sensor cleaner at Pep Boys, $6, remove the MAF and then the insert (has 2 security torx screws) and spray the heck of the tip and gold wire from every angle, let it dry for a few seconds, put it back in. Will take you a total of 10 minutes to do.
I'm thinking this may be a little more involved.
E
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,268
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From: So. Oregon Coast
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort RIP
There's a word doc around here somewhere with all the codes....
"P0410 Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction " is what the
list says.
When I looked up that code earlier for another person on the DVD, I only found one as it relates to the M112 (v6).
Now, I had a problem like this, don't know what the codes was and the
valve that controls the SC flow was stuck due to sticky oil from
ITG filter. They replaced that valve.
I emailed you some stuff from the DVD.
"P0410 Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction " is what the
list says.
When I looked up that code earlier for another person on the DVD, I only found one as it relates to the M112 (v6).
Now, I had a problem like this, don't know what the codes was and the
valve that controls the SC flow was stuck due to sticky oil from
ITG filter. They replaced that valve.
I emailed you some stuff from the DVD.
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Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
Well, according to the sheet I got from C230, I got some advice to just reset the code, and let it come back. Of course there was a precheck to do. Some of which I can't do because of the lack of instruments the dealer has.
Drove to work, about 35 miles. No problem, code didn't come back. Power is also back.
However, the OBD II scanner still shows a fault for CL fuel. Onlyl when I get off the gas does it show OL fuel.
I also have indicators for the o2 sensor, Evap, and some others.
We'll see.
E
Drove to work, about 35 miles. No problem, code didn't come back. Power is also back.
However, the OBD II scanner still shows a fault for CL fuel. Onlyl when I get off the gas does it show OL fuel.
I also have indicators for the o2 sensor, Evap, and some others.
We'll see.
E
MBWorld Fanatic!
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Posts: 7,268
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From: So. Oregon Coast
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort RIP
Keep in mind thats for the V6, not the M111.
But some things could be the same.
maybe an 02 sensor?
But like it says, verify all those things are good, and go from there,
see if it comes back.
But some things could be the same.
maybe an 02 sensor?
But like it says, verify all those things are good, and go from there,
see if it comes back.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,684
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From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
Damn, e. I was getting worried for a little 'bit. Keep us updated with the conclusion/fix.
Thread Starter
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From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
P0410 Aint ****
I wanted to put some updated info on this.
When I had my settings changed for the Bix install, I also had the DAS operator run a check for the air injection system. From the DAS unit, you could see that the car was actually going through a cold start cycle. Everything went off without incident. So, the Secondary Air Injection system was fine. The tech explained that often the air valves can stick in high mileage cars. These air valves may have a sticking once every 250+ cycles. Remember, this is cold start cycles.
I was really cautious about just clearing the error code, but after clearing the code, the car ran great. Then I was able to monitor the Air Injector cycle onboard the DAS. So, my conclusion: Boys, P0410 ain't ****. It seems scarier than it is because your car will go into limp mode. But, my recommendation would be to clear the code, and see if it comes back. To know what part to fix, you would have to have a repair shop with a DAS unit perform the Secondary Air Injection Cycle, and then monitor what part failed to operate. The point of the failure would then indicate which relay was in error.
Happy motoring
E
When I had my settings changed for the Bix install, I also had the DAS operator run a check for the air injection system. From the DAS unit, you could see that the car was actually going through a cold start cycle. Everything went off without incident. So, the Secondary Air Injection system was fine. The tech explained that often the air valves can stick in high mileage cars. These air valves may have a sticking once every 250+ cycles. Remember, this is cold start cycles.
I was really cautious about just clearing the error code, but after clearing the code, the car ran great. Then I was able to monitor the Air Injector cycle onboard the DAS. So, my conclusion: Boys, P0410 ain't ****. It seems scarier than it is because your car will go into limp mode. But, my recommendation would be to clear the code, and see if it comes back. To know what part to fix, you would have to have a repair shop with a DAS unit perform the Secondary Air Injection Cycle, and then monitor what part failed to operate. The point of the failure would then indicate which relay was in error.
Happy motoring
E
Super Moderator Alumni
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,684
Likes: 12
From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
I wanted to put some updated info on this.
When I had my settings changed for the Bix install, I also had the DAS operator run a check for the air injection system. From the DAS unit, you could see that the car was actually going through a cold start cycle. Everything went off without incident. So, the Secondary Air Injection system was fine. The tech explained that often the air valves can stick in high mileage cars. These air valves may have a sticking once every 250+ cycles. Remember, this is cold start cycles.
I was really cautious about just clearing the error code, but after clearing the code, the car ran great. Then I was able to monitor the Air Injector cycle onboard the DAS. So, my conclusion: Boys, P0410 ain't ****. It seems scarier than it is because your car will go into limp mode. But, my recommendation would be to clear the code, and see if it comes back. To know what part to fix, you would have to have a repair shop with a DAS unit perform the Secondary Air Injection Cycle, and then monitor what part failed to operate. The point of the failure would then indicate which relay was in error.
Happy motoring
E
When I had my settings changed for the Bix install, I also had the DAS operator run a check for the air injection system. From the DAS unit, you could see that the car was actually going through a cold start cycle. Everything went off without incident. So, the Secondary Air Injection system was fine. The tech explained that often the air valves can stick in high mileage cars. These air valves may have a sticking once every 250+ cycles. Remember, this is cold start cycles.
I was really cautious about just clearing the error code, but after clearing the code, the car ran great. Then I was able to monitor the Air Injector cycle onboard the DAS. So, my conclusion: Boys, P0410 ain't ****. It seems scarier than it is because your car will go into limp mode. But, my recommendation would be to clear the code, and see if it comes back. To know what part to fix, you would have to have a repair shop with a DAS unit perform the Secondary Air Injection Cycle, and then monitor what part failed to operate. The point of the failure would then indicate which relay was in error.
Happy motoring
E
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
Sometimes a 'false' or highly intermittent code comes up and it is only a 'burp' out of the engine and not indicative of a malfunction. Also, sometimes the code is caused by something else in the cycle and not what the code points to. Write the code down, clear it, and see if it comes up again. Sometimes you'll get another CEL but a different code, or a string of codes. If you get the same code again you have something more solid to go after. If it comes up once every nine months do you really want to start replacing parts? If it doesn't come up again you are home free and you've been driving the car instead of waiting to service it. Often the dealer only clears the code and waits to see if it will happen again anyway. The codes are sure better than the old method of troubleshooting but often they are not an exact/precise indicator.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,268
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From: So. Oregon Coast
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort RIP
Ed,
Are you saying that until the code was cleared the car stayed in limp mode?
When you say limp mode, you're talking about reduced power, or when it won't shift gears? Just curious. Then when you cleared it the car ran fine?
Wow.
Hadn't gotten around to reading this before, and was shopping for OBD scanners, trying to figger out what to buy...for less than $200...he he.
Something PC based so I can log data.
PS> It's interesting when you read on the service DVD how some CEL's come about. Like misfires, it's like so many misfires ( I think it was like more than 20 out of 600), it actually counts them! The algorithm's used are pretty interesting.
As pointed out, once the car goes CEL, only a scanner will clear it,
even if it was a one time thing.
If it takes a scanner to get the car out of limp mode, I'd say
that something that needs to live in my car.
I was really cautious about just clearing the error code, but after clearing the code, the car ran great. Then I was able to monitor the Air Injector cycle onboard the DAS. So, my conclusion: Boys, P0410 ain't ****. It seems scarier than it is because your car will go into limp mode.
E
Are you saying that until the code was cleared the car stayed in limp mode?
When you say limp mode, you're talking about reduced power, or when it won't shift gears? Just curious. Then when you cleared it the car ran fine?
Wow.
Hadn't gotten around to reading this before, and was shopping for OBD scanners, trying to figger out what to buy...for less than $200...he he.
Something PC based so I can log data.
PS> It's interesting when you read on the service DVD how some CEL's come about. Like misfires, it's like so many misfires ( I think it was like more than 20 out of 600), it actually counts them! The algorithm's used are pretty interesting.
As pointed out, once the car goes CEL, only a scanner will clear it,
even if it was a one time thing.
If it takes a scanner to get the car out of limp mode, I'd say
that something that needs to live in my car.
I was really cautious about just clearing the error code, but after clearing the code, the car ran great. Then I was able to monitor the Air Injector cycle onboard the DAS. So, my conclusion: Boys, P0410 ain't ****. It seems scarier than it is because your car will go into limp mode.
E
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,212
Likes: 8
From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
Ed,
Are you saying that until the code was cleared the car stayed in limp mode?
When you say limp mode, you're talking about reduced power, or when it won't shift gears? Just curious. Then when you cleared it the car ran fine?
Wow.
Hadn't gotten around to reading this before, and was shopping for OBD scanners, trying to figger out what to buy...for less than $200...he he.
Something PC based so I can log data.
PS> It's interesting when you read on the service DVD how some CEL's come about. Like misfires, it's like so many misfires ( I think it was like more than 20 out of 600), it actually counts them! The algorithm's used are pretty interesting.
As pointed out, once the car goes CEL, only a scanner will clear it,
even if it was a one time thing.
If it takes a scanner to get the car out of limp mode, I'd say
that something that needs to live in my car.
Are you saying that until the code was cleared the car stayed in limp mode?
When you say limp mode, you're talking about reduced power, or when it won't shift gears? Just curious. Then when you cleared it the car ran fine?
Wow.
Hadn't gotten around to reading this before, and was shopping for OBD scanners, trying to figger out what to buy...for less than $200...he he.
Something PC based so I can log data.
PS> It's interesting when you read on the service DVD how some CEL's come about. Like misfires, it's like so many misfires ( I think it was like more than 20 out of 600), it actually counts them! The algorithm's used are pretty interesting.
As pointed out, once the car goes CEL, only a scanner will clear it,
even if it was a one time thing.
If it takes a scanner to get the car out of limp mode, I'd say
that something that needs to live in my car.
The Limp was reduced power, but it would go through the gears.
Yes, having the scanner in the car is a must at our mileage.
When you go to buy a scanner, insure that the scanner you get has data logging that matches your needs. When Splinter and I went out to an 1/8th mile track, we logged his run, but in his 8 odd second run, we only got the launch, and one other point in the run.
The software that comes with it is important to. My scanner came with OBD-PC link which is less than stellar. And I can't copy and paste data to word.
E
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,268
Likes: 172
From: So. Oregon Coast
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort RIP
BBUMP!
Well, bumping an 8 year old thread!
I'm getting P0171 and more recently P0410.
I had forgotten completely about me sending E
the docs ha! I also didn't remember he shop replacing that valve!
Guess I'll need to check my receipts.
I recently experienced the no power situation,
but it went away the next day.
The P0171 too lean code has been coming up for a while.
Replaced by upstream sensor yesterday, cleaned the MAF,
and the throttle body. And then low and behold checked the codes and found the
P0410 code also. 1st time I'd seen that.
So from what I'm reading the 2 can be related since if the valves doesn't seal corrrectly
it will feed exhaust back into the intake and can result in the too lean code coming up.
(Please feel free to correct me if I'm full of sheet). I read this on an LS1 forum actually.
Also, since this thread was written a nice person out there has come up with a procedure for testing the secondary A.I.R. system on our cars, and put a pdf together.
I found it on my phone, so I'm not sure what the thread is since I'm on my PC but here's the procedure for future reference!
Now if there was just good procedure to replace the valve. Seems it's real beech to get at. One guy was practically in tears in frustration going PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! and ended up making a tool, welding something or other, not an option for me.
Well, guess I'll try this procedure, no expensive equipment required!
Well, bumping an 8 year old thread!
I'm getting P0171 and more recently P0410.
I had forgotten completely about me sending E
the docs ha! I also didn't remember he shop replacing that valve!
Guess I'll need to check my receipts.
I recently experienced the no power situation,
but it went away the next day.
The P0171 too lean code has been coming up for a while.
Replaced by upstream sensor yesterday, cleaned the MAF,
and the throttle body. And then low and behold checked the codes and found the
P0410 code also. 1st time I'd seen that.
So from what I'm reading the 2 can be related since if the valves doesn't seal corrrectly
it will feed exhaust back into the intake and can result in the too lean code coming up.
(Please feel free to correct me if I'm full of sheet). I read this on an LS1 forum actually.
Also, since this thread was written a nice person out there has come up with a procedure for testing the secondary A.I.R. system on our cars, and put a pdf together.
I found it on my phone, so I'm not sure what the thread is since I'm on my PC but here's the procedure for future reference!
Now if there was just good procedure to replace the valve. Seems it's real beech to get at. One guy was practically in tears in frustration going PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! and ended up making a tool, welding something or other, not an option for me.
Well, guess I'll try this procedure, no expensive equipment required!
Last edited by C230 Sport Coup; Jan 28, 2016 at 03:37 PM.
