czachari

The straight six engines are NICE and the handling is a LOT better than MBZs but the ride is suppler in a Benz.

CZ

maguzma

I would say that if I had to do it again I would buy the C230 Sedan because of the speed. I own a C240 with some nice upgrades but the C230 looks much sportier (17" rims, no wood, no chrome on side panels and no sun roof). But the other day I was at a stop light with a C230 Sedan and he tried to prove he had more HP but I beat him on the start. The V-6 when pushed seems faster than the C230. What I did not like on the C230 is the blue tint. The green (and gray tint) on a black on black car (like mine) looks awesome. Because I like in San Diego cars it's not uncommon to see cars from Mexico. The other day I say a C200 sedan for the first time. I took some pictures and wanted to post but never got around to it. But the C200 looks a little different thatn both models.

FrankW

I once saw a right hand drive Renault Megane (before the redesign) and a right hand drive VW Passat wagon at my school.

jpb5151

Dude, give us a break... We've got to get our '03 230's up to at least 2500 rpm before they'll even move! It sucks!

Domokun

noredtoday,

You can probably do better than $1,200 off MSRP. MBUSA has $2,500 dealer cash on most of the C-Class. Not on the 320W4 Sport and 230k Sedan, I belive. Of course, that may not apply to New York, but down here they are dealing due to the bad economy and all.

I have a quote on a Pewter Silver, Charcoal insert, 320W4 with C2, HS and CD Changer for $1,500 below invoice. MSRP 42,350, my price $37,950. My lease would at 3yr/15k would be 597.61 before tax.

Ab-ab

Guys,

My friend want to lower his 4matic c240 yr 2003 and it happens that he couldnt use the normal H&R coilover for w203 because the 4matic has different suspension setup, any suggestions? Thanks in advance


Ab-ab

Pit-Pony

I'd like to discuss the C 4Matic and keep our discussions focused on this feature and not general C Class issues.

Your experinces, likes & dislikes of the 4Matic.


- Is it worth the extra cost?

- Does it meet your expectations: In the snow? In the wet? In the dry?

- What's the down side? Is the car too high? Power delivery? Performance?

-Would you buy one again?

..jack

tifosiv122

I drove a 4Matic at the C-Spot party...I was very impressed. My next daily driver will be a 4Matic most likely.

Of course that was only a 15 minute drive...but when it comes time for another car I am going to ask to test drive one in bad weather.

Erik

GDawgC220

Drove one at C-Spot as well.

handled itself very well. 4matic has been around for a long time with MB. It does the job of getting around in bad weather. Someone on this board with a S500 4Matic got through a bad snow storm and the snow was pretty deep and it went well.

Performance, is pretty much identical to the rearwheel drive. You can't tell the difference either, your average driver, as it feels the same. 0-60 numbers are the same for the most part.

-G-

Pit-Pony

The old 4Matics were pretty lousy if I remember well.

An old E I know of had to have it disabled after warantee ran out. Too expesive to fix. The old transfer cases had hairy hydrolics.

The new one's are much simpler I understand.

..jack

Martin

We live in Salt Lake City Utah (home of the 2002 Olympics) and definitely snow country.

We purchased a C240 4WD for my wife in March 03. I have a CLK320 daily driver and recently acquired a Porsche Boxter for summer top down driving in the canyons.

We have owned a Jeep Grand Cherokee and a Chevy Tahoe 4WD drive cars.

I took the Jeep off-road a few times it was excellent, if you are going to go off-road you need to buy a vehicle that is designed to go off-road and the Jeeps are pretty good place to start.

The Chevy is a good vehicle for hauling around tons of stuff (e.g. kids and camping stuff) but is a bit clumsy off-road, lots of ground clearance and semi reasonable entry exit angles, but not a real off-road car.

Both the above cars are excellent in the snow and will not get stuck unless you are very unlucky!

I have driven the C240 4WD in a variety of snow conditions this year and with the stock all season tires it has performed very well. I would not want to take it through deep snow but anything up to about 6 inches of loose snow should be okay. I have taken both the Jeep and the Tahoe through about 18 inches of loose snow with no problems but I would not want to take the C through that kind of stuff. For normal city snow and reasonable snow conditions (i.e. plowed with a few inches of fresh snow) the C does just fine, even going up the Canyons to the many ski resorts here.

One thing I really like about the C in the snow it that it feels very stable and safe and coveys a real sense of security when driving in the snow (it just goes where you point it!). The Tahoe just felt large and gangly in comparison. The Jeep was somewhere between the two. For comparison my wife never liked to go out in the snow even in the SUVs but does not hesitate to take her little Benz!

No experience with maintenance, but as with all 4WD drive cars I expect it is pricy to fix.

Compared to non-4WD versions the 4matics use a little more gas and do not have the get up and go of their non-4WD brothers, however, the extra security in snow country is definitely worth it, my local dealer has told me that they sell lots of 4matic C240s and that they hold their resale value well (especially in the winter!). I find the acceleration of the C240 quite adequate (but not exciting at all) in town and occasional up shift is all that is needed on some steep hills.

I went skiing today at Dear Valley and drove up and down I80 through some slippery (but not deep) snow with no problems. I would not want to live here without a 4WD car.

So in summary for city/country driving in difficult slippery conditions this car gets a firm thumbs up from me. I will not go back to another SUV unless I plan to go off-road or haul lots of stuff.

Martin

silberrosa

My sentiments would mirror those of Martin. I have driven C-Class 4Matics extensively in snow conditions and always been very impressed. With the standard all-season tires you have the capability to get around in most conditions. Add snow tires, and they are amazingly stable on just about anything. The weight penalty and drivetrain loss (mpg) is very low. Most friends who drive them (in good weather) say thay had no idea the car was all-wheel drive until they encounted foul weather. The 40/60 torque split also allows the car to maintain its rear wheel drive feel. Overall - very impressed.

s4iscool

Id just get an Audi if you want luxury + AWD.

OR if you want great bargain + AWD get Subaru.

I personally dont see the point in getting a AWD MB or BMW

tifosiv122

If you don't have the cash, I agree...Subaru...but Audi? Common.

Erik

s4iscool

Whats wrong with the audi? Does the new 340hp V8 S4 turn you off? If you have been in one, you would be considering it as well. Ill take my C32 for now though

tifosiv122

I was considering an S4 before I got my Coupe...I like the cars but they are far from luxury.

I don't want to get into an audi argument...but I bought a EuroTuner Mag with a huge article on an S4...the first line was something like...

"Show us a S4 owner that doesn't have any problems with his car and we will show you a liar..."

The continue to comment on how bad the cars are and how every S4 has issues but they still love the car because it can be highly tuned and is cheap for the power it gives.

Don't get me wrong, I like the cars, but you cannot compare an Audi to a Benz...if you have the money...4Matic all the way...not a Passat with 4WD

Erik

s4iscool

Hrmm ok, you didnt want a argument, but you threw out lots of opinions that I disagree with so Im going to respond

#1: If you dont think an S4, B5 or B6, is a luxury sport sedan, then what is? Sure there are features that the C32 has that the S4 does not, but that goes both ways. Interior quality is many notches above MB. As far as how much priority you put in the badge on the car, well thats all subjective, but I personally dont give a ***** if the car has a star, rings, or a roudel on it.

#2: In 25k miles, I did not have a single problem with my S4. It was up to 350+ hp as well. Granted there are many with problems, I chose my mods with much thought and it paid off. Problematic cars? My C32 has been to the dealer more times than all 4 of my audis combined, and Ive only had the MB for less than a year.

#3: Honestly, the torsen AWD system (same as the S4) on the passat 4 motion is rated to be one of the best AWD setups on ANY car available. To comare that to the 4matic is simply not fair...for the 4matic.

#4: of course, I dont fault anyone that buys a 4matic, because they clearly want the MB, but with some all weather abilities. No problems there, its all personal preference. But when you compare tech specs on the cars, even the 4 motion passat is the better car IMO. Now if you compare luxury perception, or personal satisfaction from having a star on the hood, and things like resale value, dealer service, of course the VW cant compare.

#5: No offence to the C coupe, but common, how could you compare that to the S4? They are in completely different leagues.

tommy

He didn't make that comparison - reread his post. Only said that he looked that them before he bought his ccoupe.

Though in a S4 vs. C32 comparison, I know which I'd buy, and it wouldn't be the Benz.

c230pete

I thought I read a thread awhile back stating that the updated C240 would be pushed up to about 190hp (in addition to the interior changes and such)...How much increase in price do you guys think the C240 might bring? I'm starting to like it with the increased power and maybe with the AWD after looking at my C230 Sport Sedan spin out in 3 inches of snow here in this wintry mix..

s4iscool

It sure sounded to me like he did. When you cross shop cars, you are comparing them.

On the C32, I compared the two and went for the C32. I have been thinking of the next car, and I am looking at the C55 as well as the S4 again. Then again, the powerside of the C32 has been attractive enough for me to consider keeping the car for a long time.

Kar don

getting back to the original topic, I love my C320 4matic. Goes great in poor conditions, much like our ML. I have never owned/driven a RWD benz, so I am not sure of the difference. I can tell you that it is 100x better than my RWD lexus with 4 snow tires, that thing is scary in cold poor conditions (awesome in warm weather rain or shine). I would def get another 4matic MB and probably will!

tifosiv122

I didn't do a camparison between the cars. Honesly, my main turn off was it was identical to a VW...I wasn't having that. I like unique cars...the S4 looks like every other Audi and VW. That being said, I also though the quality of the cabin was less then desirable.

I still don't see how VW can sell a car...the Audi adds $20K to the sticker and doesn't change too much inside, has identical body lines, and all of a sudden its a luxury car.

Erik

amdeutsch

Not yet in the works. What you read was some wishful thinking on a new 4V V6 in that range. Look at the SLK. Right now the only new V6 is the 4V 350 pushing 272 hp. It probably might be available in the future. Please wait.

Mike T.

Modern 4MATIC shares almost nothing in common with the 4MATICs of old, which is a good thing, because they were not too reliable.

However, don't think for a moment that the Mercedes 4MATIC is anything other than a basic full-time 4WD system. It does without such items as viscous couplings and Torsen (limited slip) differentials, which are used in all high-performance (that is, sophisticated) 4WD cars. The latter sometimes include electronically (driver-selectable) torque splits, such as the Subaru WRX STi.

The problem with 4MATIC is that it relies on the braking system to simulate the effect of a LSD. This was introduced with the ML Class. It is a bare-bones (read: cheap) way to pretend that the vehicle has genuine limited slip and variable front-rear torque splits. Does it work? Yes, in normal driving. No, not in high-performance driving on loose surfaces - if rapid progress is the goal. So in a 4MATIC car, the brakes not only brake the car, they are used in its ESP system for stability control (a reasonable use) and in simulating LSD and variable F-R torque (not a reasonable use in a high performance car).

All high performance 4WD systems separate the front-rear torque split function and limited slip differential functions from braking. They have some sort of automatic torque varying device that apportions drive to front or rear depending upon available traction (viscouus coupling or electronic diff), and typically a Torsen (TORque SENsing) rear differential, which does the same on the rear axle. The brakes are used as - wait for it - brakes!

The bottom line is that if you like driving fast on snow covered roads or on gravel, skip the M-B 4MATIC. It is designed for more pedestrian drivers and will not give good results in high performance situations. Get an Audi with Quattro drive (excepting the TT, which has a crappy VW Synchro system), Mitsubishi EVO or a Subaru WRX STi.

s4iscool

All very well said with good technical background. Only part I would disagree on would be the comment on the haldex based AWD systems. Ive had TT's with this setup, and while its not as robust as the torsen system, it does a great job. For everyday driving its nearly 100% fwd, which is great for engine efficiency, but once it detects slip, it can trasnfer the power split to the rear. I didnt think it was as quick to react as the torsen setups, but it was still a nice setup that also takes up less bulk in the rear.