C-Class (S203/W203) 4MATIC thread - All you want to know
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From: New Jersey
C320 Sport Sedan 4matic
I've had my 4matic for 9 months now and love it. Yes, there is a very minimal power difference from the 2wd version but hardly noticable. Handles great on wet roads. However, I bought the sport sedan and have the C7 wheel package. This is a very scary combination on a 4matic model. Summer performance tires on an all wheel drive car! Someone wasn't thinking!!! I am going to buy all-season tires to take advantage of the 4matic. I will never buy a RWD car while I live in North Jersey. Weather around here sucks!!!!
Overall, it was well worth the $1800 extra. Haven't been stranded yet, even with the performance tires, which are already wearing after only 7,000 miles. Ridiculous!!!
Overall, it was well worth the $1800 extra. Haven't been stranded yet, even with the performance tires, which are already wearing after only 7,000 miles. Ridiculous!!!
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From: Maryland
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From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
2005 smart cabrio; 2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
4WD and AWD
Originally posted by GDawgC220
4Matic is full time all wheel drive, not 4 wheel drive. The ML's don't use 4Matic system, it uses 4ETS (Electronic Traction System) which is the full time 4 wheel drive.
4Matic is full time all wheel drive, not 4 wheel drive. The ML's don't use 4Matic system, it uses 4ETS (Electronic Traction System) which is the full time 4 wheel drive.
Answer: 4.
Question: How many of those wheels are driven in a 4MATIC?
Answer: 4.
Question: So, all 4 wheels are driven?
Answer: Yes.
Look. This is really simple. 4 driven wheels = 4 wheel drive = all wheel drive in a 4 wheeled vehicle.
That is, the distinction between "4 wheel drive" and "all wheel drive" is meaningless in a car with only four wheels.
Oh, I know that the marketing guys apply the term AWD to vehicles with various types of 4WD systems (generally ones that are more sophisticated than your uncle's 1966 Chevy Pickup), but the use of the term "AWD" is rendered meaningless because it means something different to practically everyone who uses it.
Basically, you have an almost infinite number of variations on 4 wheel drive. Here are some examples:
- manually selectable 4WD, 2WD default (usually without a front/rear differential, so it can't be used on dry roads)
- 4WD with 100% front (or rear) default drive, varied by viscous coupling or similar electronic/hydraulic device, centre differential
- 4WD with default torque split other than 100% front or rear, centre differential, with or without limited slip differentials, with or without variable torque split according to electronic, viscous coupling or hydraulic means, via differentials or in the case of Mercedes, the brake calipers........
The only way to make an intelligent comment on this topic is to describe the technical caracteristics or relative sophistication of the drivetrain, which is what I tried to do in my earlier post.
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2003 C240 4matic
Re: 4MATIC
I believe Audi no longer uses differential locks to adjust torque from left to right. It like Mercedes uses braking of the wheel that is slipping.
Audi does use a Torsen center differential to split torque between front and rear while 4Matic brakes the wheels that are slipping (front or rear) to transfer torque through a non-torsen mechanical center differential. It is claimed that:
"Other systems use various forms of limited-slip differentials, but these systems can actually force one or more wheels to slip as torque is distributed, which is a disadvantage, especially on the hard surfaced roads."
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m...le.jhtml?term=
I believe the STI uses limited slip differentials, but they are not Torsen.
All wheel drive provides two main benefits. The first is increased traction when starting from stop (without fishtailing), going uphill etc. The second is increased traction when coming out of a corner which allows you to use power earlier.
However, the added weight of the all wheel drive system means a little longer braking distances and all wheel drive does nothing for you in terms of ultimate cornering grip.
Still, here in New England I would not be without it and I love my Mercedes 240 4matic.
Audi does use a Torsen center differential to split torque between front and rear while 4Matic brakes the wheels that are slipping (front or rear) to transfer torque through a non-torsen mechanical center differential. It is claimed that:
"Other systems use various forms of limited-slip differentials, but these systems can actually force one or more wheels to slip as torque is distributed, which is a disadvantage, especially on the hard surfaced roads."
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m...le.jhtml?term=
I believe the STI uses limited slip differentials, but they are not Torsen.
All wheel drive provides two main benefits. The first is increased traction when starting from stop (without fishtailing), going uphill etc. The second is increased traction when coming out of a corner which allows you to use power earlier.
However, the added weight of the all wheel drive system means a little longer braking distances and all wheel drive does nothing for you in terms of ultimate cornering grip.
Still, here in New England I would not be without it and I love my Mercedes 240 4matic.
Last edited by Frank B; Jan 28, 2004 at 12:12 PM.
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From: Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
2005 smart cabrio; 2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
Re: 4MATIC
Originally posted by Frank B
It is claimed that:
"Other systems use various forms of limited-slip differentials, but these systems can actually force one or more wheels to slip as torque is distributed, which is a disadvantage, especially on the hard surfaced roads."
It is claimed that:
"Other systems use various forms of limited-slip differentials, but these systems can actually force one or more wheels to slip as torque is distributed, which is a disadvantage, especially on the hard surfaced roads."
A little bit of wheel slippage is necessary for fast progress on a loose surface.
Watch a WRC Rally on Speed Channel and check out the starting techniques - it involves redline and full bore 4 wheel slippage for the ideal launch.
Once in motion, some drive wheel slippage on a loose surface is absolutely necessary to make rapid progress. If you've ever done some of this type of driving you'll know what I mean. The fastest way around a corner on gravel or compact snow is always in a 4 wheel drift, which 4MATIC, ESP, 4ETS, etc would disallow. Setting a car up for such a corner involves steering initially in the opposite direction of a turn , unbalancing the car with the throttle or brakes (requiring the ability to lock wheels under braking and spin them under power), then steering into the corner and rounding it in a 4 wheel powerslide using opposite lock when necessary. Great fun!
How many Mercedes owners would be tempted to try this I don't know (there must be a few - Mercedes track days are not unheard of), but it seems to me that people who are into this sort of action should (and do) stay away from 4MATIC because of its design conception.
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From: Canada
2015 C63S E1 (sold 2012 C63 AMG Sedan (Premium & APX)) & 09 C300 Sport 4Matic
You may be absolutly right. Not what I would buy a C240 4Matic for. This vehicle is designed for a more sedate ride. Not fair to compare a C 4Matic with an STi as they are not meant to compete head to head.
Each car for it's intended use
I would use a C 4Matic for secure driving in foul weather, usualy on paved roads and not have to give up a "car" for an SUV on most days where it's not needed. I'd like the car to be stealthy in it's progress and still provide a comfortable secure ride all day long.
For spirited fun I have another type of vehicle all together in mind.
..jack
Each car for it's intended use
I would use a C 4Matic for secure driving in foul weather, usualy on paved roads and not have to give up a "car" for an SUV on most days where it's not needed. I'd like the car to be stealthy in it's progress and still provide a comfortable secure ride all day long.
For spirited fun I have another type of vehicle all together in mind.
..jack
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From: Boston
'05 A4 1.8TQM6
the quattro is a great balanced AWD system for drifting or powersliding
when its snowy here, I take it around in parking lots and just powerslide around, adding gas and steering it with control...lots of fun. No traction control or anything of the sort.
I have tried this with the ML as well, but 4ETS doesn't come into play when ESP is off...I have not tried it in a 4 matic car...hopefully soon so that i can compare the differences.
when its snowy here, I take it around in parking lots and just powerslide around, adding gas and steering it with control...lots of fun. No traction control or anything of the sort.
I have tried this with the ML as well, but 4ETS doesn't come into play when ESP is off...I have not tried it in a 4 matic car...hopefully soon so that i can compare the differences.
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From: nyc
2004 e320
Schambo,
i live in Northern Jersey and i personnally drive my E320 in the snow without any problems at all. Now, there is a big difference with the 4matic system as the traction is better. But remember this my car was actually made with some steel and is hella heavier than the C class of yester year and especially the newer ones. so when i compared the 94 E to my 95 or 97 C i found the biggest factor was the weight of the vehicle. but in reality living in Northern NJ (vernon and above excluded) i would sack the 1800 dollar option and spend it on somthing else becuase the road plows do a fine job IMO.
i live in Northern Jersey and i personnally drive my E320 in the snow without any problems at all. Now, there is a big difference with the 4matic system as the traction is better. But remember this my car was actually made with some steel and is hella heavier than the C class of yester year and especially the newer ones. so when i compared the 94 E to my 95 or 97 C i found the biggest factor was the weight of the vehicle. but in reality living in Northern NJ (vernon and above excluded) i would sack the 1800 dollar option and spend it on somthing else becuase the road plows do a fine job IMO.
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From: New Jersey
C320 Sport Sedan 4matic
Yeah, I could have bagged it and got the Command or Phone but I was trying to keep my wife and kids in mind. We swap cars regularly and I decided to go with the safer driving option. I'm also so used to driving an AWD or 4WD vehicle. Out of 6 vehicles, this is the 2nd car I have owned. I guess you could say I'm kind of a truck person. However, my C is a nice riding car and I'm enjoying the break from the "true 4X4 world". If this car keeps performing the way it is now I might even have to buy another benz when this lease is up. Maybe I'm a changed man!
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Originally posted by tifosiv122
I didn't do a camparison between the cars. Honesly, my main turn off was it was identical to a VW...I wasn't having that. I like unique cars...the S4 looks like every other Audi and VW. That being said, I also though the quality of the cabin was less then desirable.
I still don't see how VW can sell a car...the Audi adds $20K to the sticker and doesn't change too much inside, has identical body lines, and all of a sudden its a luxury car.
Erik
I didn't do a camparison between the cars. Honesly, my main turn off was it was identical to a VW...I wasn't having that. I like unique cars...the S4 looks like every other Audi and VW. That being said, I also though the quality of the cabin was less then desirable.
I still don't see how VW can sell a car...the Audi adds $20K to the sticker and doesn't change too much inside, has identical body lines, and all of a sudden its a luxury car.
Erik
I See it this way.
Benz -------------- Luxury and Prestige
Bmw -------------- Luxury and Performance
Lexus--------------Luxury and Reliability
With audi, You are not getting Prestige or reliability. You get Luxury but Benz seems to be better here, You get performance but Bmw seems to better here
I don't really see where Audi fits in. They are nice cars but they do like way too much a VWs. I was looking at A4 3.0 when I bought my car. That said. Great Car, but probably would not buy one.
Sorry to get OFF topic
Carry on with the 4Matic
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From: nyc
2004 e320
schambo,
you are a good person and a good citizen for a couple of reasons:
1. you own a mercedes benz
2. you are intelligent enough to realize 4 wheel drive does not mean you need an SUV and for that we have one less SUV on the road! good decision.
you are a good person and a good citizen for a couple of reasons:
1. you own a mercedes benz
2. you are intelligent enough to realize 4 wheel drive does not mean you need an SUV and for that we have one less SUV on the road! good decision.
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From: Baltimore/DC area
2014 E350S4
Over on a BMW site I frequent, many people (but not all) believe that RWD with snows is (for most people) a better alternative to AWD with A/S.
Of course, even out of those, most of them think that AWD with snows is the best for winter weather.
Would people here agree with those sentiments?
Of course, even out of those, most of them think that AWD with snows is the best for winter weather.
Would people here agree with those sentiments?
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4Matic MY04 Price Decrease
Anyone noticed the new price for 4Matic? It is my understanding as of MY04 the price is now $1200 and includes heated seats. In MY03 this was 1800 for 4Matic and 650 for heated seats. So instead of 2450 for 4matic + Htd seats, it is now 1200.
This price is certainly very competitive and even lower than Audi of BMW.
This price is certainly very competitive and even lower than Audi of BMW.
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From: GMT -8 hours
Mercedes-Benz
suspension mods for 4MATIC?
I believe the 4matic has a different front end setup due to the drive shafts than the regular c-class. I was wondering if AMG brake upgrade and AMG C32 suspension upgrade can be done? I have seen a pic of a 2004.5 with the big brembo caliper in the 11 o clock position where mine is vs. the regular 3 o clock position.
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The brake should be in the 3 position. The photos which were used by MB may have been re-touched in error. It is my understanding the MY04.5 upgrades which are based on the European Sport Package are not compatible with the 4matic. As for the brakes specifically, this is likely due to a difference in wheel carriers used for the 2wd vs. 4M. Since the 4M wheel carrier is probably unique to this car, it may be very difficult to find a factory solution for fitting the big brakes. However, a good fabricator can do anything.
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EIBACH lowering spring for W203 4MATIC??
I heard about eibach lowering spring for w203 4matic from my friend. Can anyone who knows about this help me with the precise information on the price and how to get it?
thanks
thanks
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From: toronto
Audi's, a whole bunch of them
part #
the part # that you r looking for is 2563.140 from eibach...also you migt be intrested in H&R part # is 29392, hope this helps
h&r = 1.4" front , 1.3" rear
eibach = 1.2", 1.2"
i use h&r....my self
h&r = 1.4" front , 1.3" rear
eibach = 1.2", 1.2"
i use h&r....my self
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I had just installed the Eibach in my W203.I notice that the upper part of the absorber that we can see when we open the front engine bonnet is having a small gap (around 2-3mm)not like what before installed which is really fit.Is this normal?
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From: toronto
Audi's, a whole bunch of them
hey marshallgp84, i'm a dealer of EIBACH and H&R located in Canada, if you r in the US, i can hook you up with a dealer just tell me where your located...again most of the germen cars that i lower choose H&R for springs....the imports usually like the EIBACH's....
Last edited by MNG; Feb 28, 2004 at 08:22 AM.
