rjracing

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum but definitely not to auto-sports. I am in the market for a new daily driver and have narrowed my choices down to a 2005 C230 Sedan Sport or 2005 Acura TSX with 30~50k Miles. The both have there pros & cons and here is how they weigh in as I see it..

Luxury and Ride Comfort - C230 Sport > TSX
Gas Mileage - C230 Sport = TSX
Reliability & Maint - C230 Sport < TSX
Handling and Performance - C230 Sport < TSX (just slightly)
Overall Looks - C230 Sport > TSX
Overall Value - C230 Sport = TSX

Now making this post on a MB forum I know I am going to get a slightly biased response but as a C230 owner, I want to hear your opinion about your car especially regarding reliability and maintenance items. I'm looking for a car that's comfortable, good on gas, fun to drive, but won't cost an arm and a leg to drive as I plan on owning it for at least 5 years / 80,000 miles. Also, any known transmission problems? Please share some insight and help me make my decision, thanks in advance.

XsuperbeeX

Handling and Performance - C230 Sport < TSX (just slightly)

agree if its a sedan... coupe handling wise a no no..

rjracing

Yes, I'm in the market for a sedan. The TSX(or euro accord) chassis with its double wishbone susp is quite capable and actaully holds some of the fastest FF times in the world. Looks at race teams like 5zigen and racers like Wittmer and Kleinubing of Acura/RealTime/Red Line Oil, all hold every FF record times on tracks cost to cost.

pawe

Id still buy an 05 c230, im biased though. Great gas mileage, easy DIY's, it has that modern yet classic look and surprisingly spacious trunk for a small car. Its not really fast but its perfect for me since I don't drive that fast anyway..speeding tickets is the fail.

LILBENZ230

I voted other, and here's why:

I bought a used 2002 Acura TL in 2005. It was quite the lemon, and thanks to its massive amounts of time at the dealer, I was able to rack up about 10,000 miles on about 6 different 05 and 06 Acura TSXs. I had them from red to black, with and without navigation and bluetooth. The TSX is a great car overall. But the 05 C230 I drive now is superior in many ways.

Brakes: Honda as a whole (including Acura) really needs to get real on the brakes. The TSX has weak brakes. They, like all Hondas, warp extremely easily. I had a 07 Civic Si sedan up until last July (traded it for the Benz) and it has the same rotors and brakes as the TSX. Took 1 trip to the mountains and toasted them. They were completely ruined. The Mercedes has been with me to the mountains three times now on the same set of pads.

Engine: I must advise you to be aware of some of the issues the M271 has, if that's the route you're definitely going. The K24 in the TSX is a wonderful engine (Honda, arguably, produces the worlds best 4s) but it has typical Honda lack of torque down low. It's redline, IIRC, is about 7200rpm. It's not as flexible an engine as the M271. To me, in my experience, the K24 is either a little less refined than the M271 or the Benz has better sound insulation and keeps more sound out.

Handling: You're right, the TSX has a brilliant suspension system. And I'll tell you, I never drove the A-SPEC version. But the tires are smaller (I guess you could change this) and the ones I drove always had useless Michelin all-seasons that gave up at the slightest hint of aggressive driving. If you get a TSX, put some real tires on it. The TSX is sharper, but the Benz feels better, IMO.

Interior: The TSX is warmer and more inviting, but that's par for the course when you compare Asian to European. The materials are better in the TSX, though. My car has a few rattles, but so did every TSX I drove (and they all had less than 10k miles).

Exterior: Benz, hands down. I have yet to have someone tell me that my car wasn't attractive. I've had loaner W204 cars and had people tell me they much prefer my W203 style. But beyond looks, which is subjective, the body panels on the Benz are much thicker than Acura cars. Shut the door of a TSX and you're greeted with a very tinny sound. Safe though it is, the TSX lacks the heft and feel of the Benz. The paint is also much better on the Mercedes. The AMG-inspired treatment of the 05-07 W203 makes the TSX seem slab-sided and dull.


I hope this helps you with your choice. I have owned many Honda products, and all except the TL (lemon) were fantastic cars. I have great respect for Honda, for not only the excellent products but their philanthropy, dedication to the environment and safety. But their cars, and indeed those from other Asian brands, are as a whole so passionless and boring.. I thought of a TSX, but I don't regret my pick of the C230. Finally, I want to encourage you to look over this forum at the various M271 engine threads and think more carefully about your pick of an 05. I love my 05, but if I knew then - I would have gotten the 06 or 07, with the 2.5L M272 V6. It lacks the low-end punch of the Kompressor 4, but it's more refined and comes with the 7G transmission. It also seems to be hardcore reliable.

So that's it. I vote OTHER because I believe you should get an 06-07 C230 Sport.

SickSpeedMonte

I dont really agree with this, I've driven and ridden in a friends TSX a few times, and I like the interior (design, fit and finish, and materials) in my C230 better. The only area of the C230 that I think makes it feel at all sub-par is the material selection for the head unit surround. Its the semi-gloss black plastic. I think carrying the bird's eye maple into that area would have been the better choice.

I would also agree that the '06-07 C230 SS is the better choice.

Midnight Koop

+1

i've driven my friend's tsx too and agree that the build quality of ours is superior.

HellsAngel

benz anyday...

sleewell

my buddy just got a 09 TL and its ok, but nothing is amazing. the rear end is a hot mess and the interior isnt anything i would write home about.

i love my 06 230 though, 7 months since i bought it and i still love it and would buy it again. acuras are just slightly nicer honda's, which are good cars just not my style.

German cars just feel better imo than Japanese cars.

tommy

The manny is smoother on the TSX. It revs higher. It has overall better reliability. It doesn't have an M271. You can flog it (and have to to get out the hp) more, which to me equates to more fun.

And if you are going to add 80k to the life of the car, imho, the Acura would be the better $$ option, factoring in average reliabilities. Body integrity may not be as good as the Benz, but it should have fewer engine/electrical gremlins.

amanonfire

I would not buy the M271, its a ticking timebomb for problems, the Honda engine is far more reliable. Even if you fix all the little problems, there's still the unknown if you'll experience a valve issue since the head issue wasn't resolved even on the 2005s.

Since you want a reliable DD, I'd go with the TSX. If you are getting a used C230 off the lot with an extended warranty and free loaners, then take the C230.

dblock2151

Shoot for an '06 C230 if you can. Although I wish I got the C350.

skittles

id still pick a W203 but maybe a c320 05 to 07.

daiso'

ahh my car sucks!!! who wants it?

oo3

If I could only choose between C230 and TSX, it would be the C230 all the way. But I chose other because I want a C32 or C55 now...

Were you planning on modifying either car if you were to get one of them? If you wanted to mod the engine then I would get a TSX because there is a huge market for that, not so much for C230. But the C230 styling is waaaay better.

kOMPRESSEDc230

Acura's don't draw much appeal to me. I suppose to new ones are ok. I say Benz. W204 if that's financially possible.

bdgdl08

I prefer the rear wheel drive Benz to the front of the Acuras and Hondas.

rjracing

LILBENZ230 - That was a great write up with someone who has lots of seat time in both cars which is exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks a bunch for your input as it really helped. If the brakes and tires were the only real downfall on the driving experience then they can be upgraded for a reasonable price, and if they are the same as the FA5 I actually have a set of SS lines, 2 sets of rotors, 3 extra sets of pads (factory mugen, hawk HP, and Blue 9012). I now use Brembo BBK on my Mugen FA5.

Here is a little story behind my change of cars, I am really trying to convince the wifey that i need a new car that is more reliable and better on gas than the Jetta GLX VR6 that i drive daily now. She drives a 2002 E320 she bought new and now has 95K miles on it and has only needed normal maintenance items and lower ball joints I replaced about 6 months ago. My Jetta now has 89,000 miles on it and I put $2400 in it in 2008, then I just dumped $1200 in parts (i did the labor) 2 months ago month and now it needs a $1100 cat. and the transmission feels like is starting to slip a little bit. The second this car went out of warranty parts starting flying off this thing, other than that, its a great car, lol. So I don't want to get into another car that is going to give us headaches and big bills like this one has.

Posts likes this is why I am leaning towards the TSX. Reliability and gas mileage are my two main concerns as i also have a 03' F-250 Lariat and a 08' Mugen Civic SI race/track car that rarely sees the street, and we all know gas prices will go back to $4 + a gallon. Comfort and looks would have to be next in line, which it seems that the MB takes the gold there (no surprise really). I would like to get an 2006+ C230 but most are still under warranty which is causing retail about $4-8K more than the 2005, and gas mileage is a little worse (6mpg less than the TSX) and the insurance cost more. I am looking for newer sports luxury sedans with lower mileage in the $14-18K range, if you have any other reasonable options then please share.

This weekend I am going to actually get some good seat time in each one of these cars as my local Carmax has both of these cars in stock and has given me a reasonable offer on my VW. I'll let you all know how it goes.

bdgdl08

The thing about the 2006+ Cs are the V6 engines. They are much better than the four cylinder M271s, but do have worse gas mileage. I would personally recommend the 6 over the 4, not for a difference in performance (you may get a bit, but not much, the m271 is quicker in the low end), but the better reliability and a more solid feel/better sound. I really like my '07 C230 much more than even the TL that I used to drive. The Benz is a much, MUCH better driving experience, and with the V6, more reliable.

rinosaur

^ Are you sure the insurance is more on the Benz? My 01 c240 99k was literally a few dollars more than my dad's '00 accord 160k . That may be because its safer, has esc, and that people in Benz are less likely to speed than in a Honda? Not sure.

edit: yeah from what I've heard these V6s are very well built

nickgailloux

The fact that you're posting here means you've already made up your mind... welcome to the club

Don't get an '06. Get an '05 or an '07. My reasoning is that if you get the '05, you'll get the 4 cylinder engine which will give better milage. If that doesn't matter to you, get the '07, because if you do, you can get a certified pre-owned with two years warranty updradable to four years. The '06 and '07 are nearly identical, so the only difference between the two would be how much warranty is outstanding.

Utahkompressor

C230 V6 is gutless.....0-60 in 9.5secs, compared to 7.5secs on M271.

M271 is not that hard to deal with if you have some basic understanding about supercharged engines.......proper warm-up is very critical on M271, as well as proper abuse once in a while to keep the engine from carbon built-up.

If you like DIY, M271 is easier to work on too because it's RWD.....the powertrain is spreaded out over the car, not packed under the hood like FWD Acura. However, the parts are a bit more expensive compared to Honda.

Test drive should solve the problem.....go with whatever you feel like!(I test drove 8 cars before I ended up with my 05 C230......IMO, entry-level lux-sedan, nothing can beat the feeling of C-class)

amanonfire

That's exactly how I feel about my C230.

If you get to the problems before they occur, and keep the car well maintained, the M271 is fantastic, otherwise its a ticking-time-bomb!

Here's some of the problems I've had outside of warranty, and the cost to fix:
- AC condenser leak, $1500 (poor quality condenser, this should be fixed on a 2005)
- leaking cam sensors, $100 before they leak, $1000 after (ruins harness and O2 sensors)
- rear diff leak, $500 (dunno if this has been fixed in later models)
- thrust/control arm/endlinks bushing, $$$ (there are several part numbers for these, since revisions kept failing, dunno which ones the 2005 has)
- upper/lower vent hose, luckily US owners can get this done as a recall.

That doesn't include the bad valves... which with good gas and proper driving may be avoided. We've seen guys on here that drive their cars hard and use fuel treatment still have valve problems.

And if you're getting an automatic, you get the added bonus of making sure you're not getting a leaking radiator that ruins your tranny. Should be fixed for 2005, yet not sure.

Personally, I like the 2005 A4, dunno about reliability, yet style I think its on par with both these cars.

W203E35

If I were to do it all over again I would have saved my money and bought an C55. That's all nothing else. I'm happy with my C350 but a C55 would have been much better.

Glyn M Ruck

Rino - you are right - the V6s are bullet proof. I'm keeping an eye on two in daily service that have never been opened. 0ne at 570,000Km & another at well over 700,000Km