Onericali

K I have the 2002 c230, took it in cuz the AC blew hot air.

At the shop, the key won't turn in the ignition switch, but still unlocks the car.

Wipers stop working.

What my mechanic did, was run a connection between the ignition and the starter that bypasses the relay in the EIS, SO:

I would have to turn the key, and then hit a button to start the car. I don't mind it, because it saves having to worry about the damn relay in the EIS and replacing it and then worrying about keys if they have to be reprogrammed or replaced. Also it seems like a cool security feature for the car; anyway.

Problem is, once he wired it up, didn't work.

So I might have to just get the damn part after all.

I've got a few questions, but feel free to comment on any part of this in order to help me with this.

First, I saw the price of a key on here for 184 dollars, but after a trip to the dealership, they were asking, 334 or something close to it; I don't remember exactly. Why the huge change?

On the same token, I have seen the EIS switch for 400, but I'm wondering if I'll be able to find that deal.

Any idea how many hours it takes to replace the EIS? Do keys need replaced then?

Fudge, why did the wipers stop working? Lol.

The motor in the wipers is good, and the fuses are all good, the connections seem good. Maybe it is some relay or whatever, I don't know I'm just trying to learn all this. I just found the schematics for what the relays are finally and sent them to the mechanic to save him some time.

Anyway, noticed there was absolutely zero information on repairing an EIS, and since we attempted it and got close, thought I should put this out there, and then there is always the slim chance that I will get some feedback that could help in time.

Deadline, Tuesday the 24th. If that is missed, the 26th, and if that is missed, the 31st will really be a huge deal if I can't get my car before then.

He actually has it on the dolly now at the shop, and at some point, we might just have to take it to the dealership even, I just, honestly, ****, its just a lot of money is all.

AdidasC230

I hate to say this but its a Benz a bypassing the EIS is a bad idea, it does more then just start the car, you also make it easy for your car to get stolen.

These cars are very advanced and dont respond well to ghetto mods.

Thats why your car wont start, also with your wipers, it may be a connector, or maybe the stalk went bad. As for your EIS, its still on regardless of if you tried to bypass it or not.

Also your dealer is ripping you on the key they are 180 or so, not 300 and if they try to charge that much, go some where else.

Onericali

Thanks a lot man, much appreciated.

Do you happen to have the service bulletin for replacing the EIS on hand?

Check this out: http://w203eis.blogspot.com/.

Interesting..

Anyone know how much it is to replace the EIS at a dealership?

LILBENZ230

Another member on here paid $1200 to replace the EIS. It's not a cheap part. I'm also not surprised that it cannot be bypassed.

Glyn M Ruck

The EIS is the top of the control & security pyramid in a Merc. Don't mess with it. Key, EIS etc is all VIN coded as well & requires to come from the central Benz security facility pre setup for your car. Even the dealer can't do it.

Onericali

Okay thanks for info.

There is a switch beside the relay inside the EIS that when it reads that the security is good it engages and allows the key to turn to the starting position, which runs a charge to the starter through the relay etc.., I think.

Now. If you could somehow sodder that switch in the engaged position.. and then run a switch to the starter so by pass the relay, it should always allow you to turn the key, at which point you hit a button to start the car since you bypassed the relay.

What I'm saying is that, he isn't attempting to bypass the EIS, just put it permanently engaged or something, and bypass the relay.

Maybe he just took the damn switch out, and that is why it won't start. If the switch is engaged, there is no reason for it not to start.

Wha'ts the worst case here?

I think the worst case is, it was just a key problem, and now we screwed up the EIS which is another 1000 dollars.

However the key works fine for the rest of the parts. I know for about 20% of people the key seemed to fix the problem, but for most it is the EIS.

However, honestly, if he said he could do it, but then screwed it up with no warning about the possibility, he can help me with the price of the EIS perhaps. I doubt it though, but at least I won't have to pay for all the time taking the dash apart.

Glyn M Ruck

You could probably rig up something that spun the starter motor from a push switch but the rest of the EIS would all have to work at the same time.

For all activities with the key out - the key operates from battery power via the RF & IR links. Once you insert the key in the EIS it is inductively powered by the EIS (like your Sonicare toothbrush) to achieve the IR handshake via the red window in the end of the key. Once the handshake takes place the key & EIS do the security checks & verification & then you are good to go. The EIS is crucial to addressing all the cars electronics.

EDIT: Remember the starter on a Benz has a crank 'till start facility so you don't have to hold the key in the start position. An external switch would likely mess with this.

Onericali

Hmm. Very good info thanks. Now I read this from the W220.

"Firstly the key is authorised. Then the steering colum is unlocked. Then the key is unlocked (i.e. It can be turned) and finally the ME control unit for ignition etc is enabled via the CAN (digital highway)."


My steering wheel IS UNLOCKED all the time now.


Why would this be?

Perhaps the last time the attempt was made, the relay that goes from the "steering wheel unlock" phase to the "key unlock" phase went bad and the car got stuck in between phases.

What if the key went out mid turning phase?

Or, he left my key in over night I think, would that matter?

edgarinho10

I was looking on my invoice for the cost of the EIS and it was $588.00 just for the part plus $178.50 for labor. Estimated time for the labor was 1.5 hours as you can probably tell. Plus an additional $14.28 for shop supplies. All in all it ended up being $830.47 including taxes.

Unlucky for me, it wasn't the only thing that was wrong. I had to take it back in so they could test and repair bad connections, which ended up being $297.50 for labor and $23.80 for shop supplies. In total it ended up coming out to $323.26.

On top of that I had to pay for a tow truck, which were an additional $100+.

If you think its just the key, you can try replacing the key fob. Or if that doesn't quite do it, you might consider getting another key. But be wise on that choice. It will most likely either be the EIS or the Key. And if you do end up getting a new EIS, they just program it to your current key so there is no need to buy another one.

And also EIS from what I've seen and heard are impossible to repair. The dealership tried repairing mine, but no luck, so they had to order a new one unfortunately.

Whatever the case is I wish you good luck!

Onericali

Thanks bud^^ That makes a lot of sense. And I hear ya about repairing it; it seems like a pain in the ***. I still want to figure a bit more out on exactly what is going on, and see if the steering wheel being unlocked means anything.

I'm going to repost this part

Now I read this from the W220.

"Firstly the key is authorised. Then the steering colum is unlocked. Then the key is unlocked (i.e. It can be turned) and finally the ME control unit for ignition etc is enabled via the CAN (digital highway)."


My steering wheel IS UNLOCKED all the time now.


Why would this be?

Perhaps the last time the attempt was made, the relay that goes from the "steering wheel unlock" phase to the "key unlock" phase went bad and the car got stuck in between phases.

What if the key went out mid turning phase?

Or, he left my key in over night I think, would that matter?

mleskovar

The solenoid that controls the pin is either disabled, or always enabled (my guess).

Onericali

****.

Replaced EIS and got a new key. The EIS is recognizing the key.

The car won't start. What are the possible problems?

I took the car in because AC only blew hot air.

While at the dealership the key stopped being able to turn.

edgarinho10

I'm guessing you got it replaced at your local dealership being they are the only ones who can order the part. What did your service advisor say?

Onericali

Actually I took it to Greffs motors that does a lot of high end cars. Turns out they charge just as much, but, yea, I should have probably just taken it to the dealership a long time ago.

I'm not sure if the key doesn't turn at all, or if it turns and just doesn't start.

I DO know that the EIS IS recognizing the key now, so I'm guessing the key turns.

Honestly, none of that makes sense. There is no reason for the ECM to all of a sudden go down after we replaced the EIS and key.

Golly.. I hope they know how to use that diagnostic computer of theirs

mleskovar

My understanding is the EIS is system specific for security reasons and needs to be properly coded in. Actually, other parts on the car are system specific as well and the system needs to be coded to accept them (like TCU!!).

Onericali

One cool thing about this experience is that I've learned so much that, I will be doing a lot of my own work from now on.

Now, ECM, found it for 1600, could be worse. How many hours is that job?

What is the TCU? Idea on part cost? Hours?

edgarinho10

Transmission Control Unit. & you can get an estimate just by calling your local dealership.

Onericali

Like I said at the beginning, the steering wheel wasn't locking.

Since the steering wheel lock has to do with the EIS, it prevented the car from starting.

The steering wheel lock fixed the problem, unfortunately, not before I spent 2000 dollars on a new EIS, a new key, etc...

edgarinho10

Sucks to hear this but glad you have taken care of your problem.

sknight

This is a cross post from another thread, as I find more suitable ones in the search:

I found this in the search and possibly related to my problem-

2000 German W203, m111 C200k. *Battery good, confirmed good, happens with all three keys. All batteries changed in the keys.

It did this previously on occasion, getting worse when the weather is cold-

Car doesn't open with the remote. Sometimes just go back and forth and eventually, starts responding, though not 100%, meaning the second click doesn't open the rest of the doors, for instance. Eventually works. However, not this time.

When in this mode, car doesn't start. The display lights, BUT the odometer portion just reads in all dashes "--------" just like that. Put key in, nothing. Along the way, it would finally recognize the key and start, or the solenoid in the ignition switch would lock and unlock repeatedly for about 10-20 seconds, then finally the odometer starts displaying numbers again and the car starts.

Seemed to also be able to "turn on" the computer by turning the headlights on with the driver's door open to engage the alarm for the lights on. However, it's extremely cold out here now and now the car is dead... No door activity, no steering unlock, no starting (naturally), dashes across the odometer reading, with occasional flashing with the numbers.

Any ideas on diagnostics? One of the issues are mechanics here (former east Germany) are one of two things: completely incompetent or absolute ripoff artists.

sknight

Here's a similar symptom from someone later:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w203...c320-01-a.html

No follow up, however.

Should it be the EIS, I'm going to look to see how I can get everything as cheap as possible, and then I guess pay the dealer for the programming. Would prefer to keep the old keys, however, or source a used unit from Poland (I'm in Germany), with keys.

Anyone have part numbers?

sknight

Does anyone, by any chance, have the part number for a 203.045 series C-class? I'm winging this by trying an independent who might have a STAR or availability to one, and it would help to be able to name the part in German and see what they might charge.

UK-C200

Stop fiddling about, and find an Indy with Star. The whole DAS is well instrumented, and it should be throwing loads of faults that Star will show, and point to a diagnostic tree. Without this, you are shooting in the dark, and there is so much interaction it's going to be a nightmare to try and diagnose without Star...

You are going to run into massive problems with a used EIS and trying to reuse your old keys, or even have it function in your car. You need a new one VIN coded and married to your ECU....

sknight

I did stop "fiddling around". Fortunately, my car isn't absolutely essential for day to day life. It could have even waited in the garage until warmer, in fact. So I don't know what constitutes "fiddling around" to you. Perhaps it's an outlook on my situation based on your own? However, like I said, what I'm doing is not "fiddling about". It's looking for options in a country that loves ripping off english speakers and can't forget the war.

Indies can't do it here. According to someone I spoke to at Mercedes, they don't release the EIS devices to independents. Additionally, we had to sign several pages of legal documents for identity and other info, before they would do the work. Several sections were to authorize release of the EIS to the dealer, other sections were for anti-theft measures. Signatures given for each key we brought back.

I used a hair dryer on the keyslot for about 10 minutes. Car started right away.

I can also tell you your info about the keys is incorrect. One dealer even tried to use the German translation for "marriage" with the keys and the box. The normal dealer we went to told us the old keys can be reprogrammed to the new EIS, no problem. All keys were left with them. This contrasts with the smaller dealer who likely doesn't have the knowledge or equipment. Their estimate was about 1500 euros, with 280 per key for our three keys. The normal, larger dealer- 630 euros complete. Car will be ready on Friday or Monday.

Saving 700 euros="fiddling about"!

sknight

So to update the "fiddling around". The dealer called- car is repaired, end cost they hooked us up with a discount for no reason- 575 euros, the estimate was 630 or so. So with "fiddling around", not only did I not listen to the first dealer who wanted 1600 euros or more, I even got 60 euros off the price from the second dealer.

And also, all three of our keys were reprogrammed. No replacements necessary. Smaller dealers who don't have the specific tools to do so may charge for new keys, which is fairly unethical. The mercedes dealer also said the proper documentation of the symptoms stepwise made the diagnostics easier (to the point where there was even a no-cost/no obligation diagnosis offered over the phone).

The EIS was roughly 485 on its own, so install, diagnostics, and key and EIS reprogramming costed about 90 euros for labor. Reasonable. So "fiddling about" and not listening to some here that the keys MUST be replaced save us 1,200 euros.