bbmcgee65

hey everyone, i have never posted here before, but i couldnt find my problem anywhere here, so i apologize if its out there already.
here is my problem:
i have a 2002 c230 coupe, on jan 10, was out running errands, car running fine, went from one store to another in the same parking lot, and when i turned off the car, the abs round light came on, (dont know if it has anything to do with the problem). i got a weird feeling, so i thought i would just call it a day and go home. i went to start it up again, and nothing...no engine turnover at all. the lights were on, all the instrument panels, but no start. called a friend to jump start, and the battery wd not jump. called a wrecker, could not put it into neutral, he mentioned something about the neutral safety switch, (security or something..) so they dragged it onto a flatbed and towed it to my mechanic. in the morning i brought the keys over to him, and waited for the call. 4 days later, i called him, and he told me that the car started right up, no problem, he ran a series of tests (dont know which ones)and could not find anything wrong with the car. it started up everytime. so i went to pick it up. it started right up, (he didnt charge me btw ). drove to my home, just right up the street, got in my drive, turned it off, went to turn it on again, and nothing...
called him back, the owner wasnt there, spoke with the front desk who said to bring it by in the morning if it started. well it didnt, and i didnt call back. a few days later the owner called me and said he would like to come to my house, see if it would start and bring it to the shop to check it out. (i live within walking distance) so he did, he was able to jump start it,(but for some reason i was not able to). brought it to the shop and started troubleshooting. he said he put a new batt in, and it was starting, but noticed that something was pulling from the battery. he kept it for another week, and finally was not able to find anything else wrong. thought it may be starter, but wasnt sure, didnt want to charge me to put one in, to find out later it was not the starter. he said he put in about a thousand man hours into it, but couldnt find anything. (again, no charge. good man, just wasnt able to find the prob) he put it back together and it started up, and we drove it to the dealer, thinking it was the key. they checked it out, said to get another key, and so thats what i did. i just got it home, backed into the driveway, just in case, and guess what....wait for it....tried to start and NOTHING...

so, i was wondering if anyone has had this problem, and what it might be. the fuel pump shakes when the key first turns, then turns off. i have a video of it, not sure where i can post it. im just at my wits end, anything would help.

so its not:
the key
the battery, it has a charge
diagnostics showed no code

i thought it may be electrical, but im no mechanic...

it seems to start for everyone but me, the only thing that is the same, is that i drove it a few miles to my home, pulled in the drive, and then it wouldnt start.

thanks in advance, for any help
bbmcgee

bbmcgee65

i wanted to add to this, i was doing some more research and found this thread...
https://mbworld.org/forums/mercedes-...ery-drain.html
i was cleaning the interior of my car a few months ago, and took out the passenger seat, to vacuum, and decided to leave it out, for storage room, because my hatchback wont open without the blade key. (i am a flt attendant and of course need to stow my luggage every time i go to work, so it gets old having to look upside down to find the blade key entrance). when i read about the srs light draining the battery, i thought maybe that may be my source of drainage because the light is on all the time, due to the passenger seat not being there. i just put the seat back in, and plugged in the yellow srs wires. (i already had the seat motor/module issue draining the battery, its been unplugged for years,so i live without that convenience as well). i also tried to jump start it again, my battery is a 12 volt interstate, 850 cca 1000ca and we tried jumping with a 12 volt 700cca 875 ca battery, and it would not start...just wanted to add some details thanks

SunnyRayToronto

I'm a sucker for using Genuine Mercedes-Benz OEM parts,.. including car battery. 100Ah.

You have to be really careful jump starting a Mercedes. Mercedes doesn't recommend jump starts. Read owner's manual and follow steps carefully.

You might have fried the frontSAM???

Hook up an OBD2 scantool and read code if any,.... MB Star would be best,...

Start checking fuse, relays,... and especially look for loose connections, bad grounds,...
really sounds like a loose connection issue.

poppinfresh

So what sounds do you here once you put the key in and attempt to turn? do all the lights come on as usual? this sounds similar to something that happened to me a month ago, drove me nuts!

bbmcgee65

I dont hear anything except fan n under the hood the fuel pump vibrates. All lights come on, and everything seems normal except no start. I drove it from dealer, got home n after turning off, it wdnt start again. I have a video of the engine, do u know how to post one? Also, sunny ray, i read about the jump start thing too late. What is the frontSAM? I know a little about some things in the car, because of expierences (bad ones) but idk what that is. N wd that prevent it from starting n going into neutral. Its acting exactly the way it did the day it just didnt start. Thx for any help

SunnyRayToronto

FrontSAM is basically the front fuse-relay box with some electrical modules,... it controls lots of the electrical components in the front of the car,.... rearSAM generally control the electrical components in the rear.

List all the steps you take when you start the car,... key in- observations,...key to position 1 - obsevations, key to position 2 - observation,... key fire ignition - observation,...

When exactly does the fan under the hood goes off,... and does it spin in high mode like a turbine engine? Very loudly? If so, for how long,....

Post your video on YouTube and provide a link here.

Write proper english with full words,... none of this "n wd" short form crap,... I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure out what you're trying to say.

bbmcgee65

I just posted it on you tube, sorry about the short words, i was not sure if i was limited on my space in my post. The link is here Im gonna video my steps, and post ina min, thanks for your help so far.

SunnyRayToronto

That's not the fuel pump. Fuel pump is under rear seat.

Auxiliary coolant pump for interior heating is the fist size cylinder attached to coolant reservoir.

poppinfresh

So i had a similar problem where I would put the key in, all the lights would come on as usual, even the heating system could be heard starting up. I would go to turn the key to start the car and i would here just a click like a relay was going off. So I messed around with it for a while and eventually called a tow truck, he load tested the battery and said my battery was bad. I took it to a mechanic and he tested out a few things with the battery connections and determined it was the alternator. And this was a problem that was on and off much like your until one day it simply wouldnt start. So I'd take it to a mechanic and ask him to check the current coming in from the alternator to the battery to see if that has anything to do with it.

bbmcgee65

Ok, so i just went outside to start the car, and my phone ran out of room, while i was fiddling with the phone, i went thru the key steps again and it started! Over and over, weird, but that dosent answer why it wont start every time. I put the passenger seat back in, and plugged the yellow srs plugs back, earlier tonite, would that have helped? its the only thing i did differently since the whole thing started

bbmcgee65

Here is the vid before i ran out of space on my phone...and poppinfresh, its been at my mechanic for a week i would think he checked that, since he said he tested n unplugged everything he thought would be the problem, but you know how that goes, ill mention that though thx

bbmcgee65

ok, just an update, its started everytime today, i drove it around the block a few times and came back and turned it off and on again and it started. im still not sure if that was the problem since it was intermittent starting. ill give it a few days, and keep you all updated, thank you so much for your help

bbmcgee65

ok, just an update, (not a good one) its been starting everyday, and so i decided to take a drive to the auto parts store to check out the battery, and alternator, and just to drive it, because it seems to have problems after heating up...i was idling, and all of sudden the instrument cluster started going crazy, saying brakes bad see dealer etc, and i remember reading about this on here, but cant remember where. i decided to go in the shop, but was unable to put it into gear, the car was running, but would not go into gear. (auto transmission). so i locked the car with the blade key, and went into the shop. the guy who helped me, tested the battery, the machine said it was bad, while in the car, disconnected from the car, and actually out of the car. so i got a new one, which didn't help. still no start. he put in a new relay switch, not sure which one, but didnt help. after a few hours, of trying to figure out what it may be, (we found the neutral safety switch and got it to go into neutral to push it to a parking spot) my friend showed up to pick me up. while in the store, to pay for the new battery, he decided to test my old one again. it said it was a good one...3 times. so he put it back in my car, and didnt charge me for the new battery..(very nice). after he put it in, he asked me to push on the brake, and the lights would only come on if my lights were on, and the key was in the ignition. and they came on intermittently... so he said it may be the brake light switch, which he ordered for me $20.00. so now im trying to decide if i should have it towed to the dealer and have them troubleshoot it, or wait for the part, shd be here tomorrow, and put it in and see if thats it. the car is still at the shop.... im going to get a ride over there to see if it starts, and if so, maybe it starts having problems when it gets heated up...ill keep you all posted

Glyn M Ruck

Get them to check the interlock system. The car will only start in Park or Neutral. It sounds as though the interlock is intermittent. Try moving the gear selector back & forward a number of times with your foot on the brake when it won't start.

Good luck!

ps. Check fuse 52 & replace with 20 amp.

bbmcgee65

hi glyn m ruck, thanks for your response...i got a ride to the car, tried to start, and nothing, so its not a heat issue, or if it is, it has not cooled down enough. the break lights are intermittent, and i noticed that the interior lights did not come on, and are not working. ive been searching all over this site and on the net, and cant figure out what it may be. i guess the dealer just runs the diagnostic and sends you home with a new key as a starting point. at least they didnt charge me for the diagnostic. and i guess they changed their roadside assist policy, my service adviser said if i spend 100.00usd i get free towing, either for a year and a half or a month and a half, cant remember...i thought it may have been an issue of the engine heating up and starting trouble with the wires, because whenever i drive 15 or 30 min, thats when it wont start. also the instrument cluster was reading ---- for mileage etc, before the battery was changed. i have a picture but not sure how to post on here...ill try to figure that out ...where would the fuse be located? and do you think it could be the break light switch preventing it from starting? i tried the wiggle of the gear selector, and my hazard lights came on for a min. it seems like an electrical short or something...i just dont understand why the mechanic who had it for 2 weeks couldnt find the problem, and the dealer just sold me a key. no codes are coming up, so hmmm....any ideas? thanks

Moviela

Looks like Glyn has called it, I think the neutral safety switch is possibly the bad boy that is keeping this car grounded. When hot the contact spring expands enough that good electrical contact is not made to signal the front SAM that the transmission is in park or neutral.

When the gear lever did not move with the engine running that sounds like the brake light switch is bad. The switch actually signals the SAM that a foot is on the pedal, and the SAM then commands the shift lever to be unlocked as well as switch on the rear brake lamps.

None of these items would throw a code.

If the neutral safety switch were OK, I might suspect worn brushes in the starter. When cold they can slide easly in their channel, but when hot they may expand enough to stick, and being worn down the springs might not have enough "push" to move them in contact with the armature.

Electrical problems can be such a headache. Do you know how copper wire was invented? Two pilots found a penny at the same time. (this thread needed a little humor)

Moviela

Fuse 52 protects the wiring to the starter relay. The original value was 15 amps, but Benz has published that it should be increased to 20 amps to prevent nuisance blowing. It is located in the fuse box under the hood.

A bad brake pedal switch would prevent moving the shift lever, but it would not prevent starting the car, assuming the car is in neutral or park. You can actually stand outside and start the car by reaching in the window.

bbmcgee65

lol moviela, thanks i needed a little laugh...its been such a headache...and i can believe two pilots would think they invented copper wire, lol. (im a flt attendant ) so you think its the neutral safety switch and the break light switch? that would make sense about the heat thing, cause thats it wont start, it starts at the shop because its cold...also i dont understand why the interior lights would suddenly not work also im trying to post a pic of the ---- thing on my dash... ps i noticed that the superbowl was played at the Mercedes Benz super dome, and they had electrical problems too...lol

bbmcgee65

ok i think i got the image this time

Carsy

I just can't believe all these problems cannot be diagnosed more easily. In my opinion the electrical systems on these cars are too complex & not robust enough.

I wonder about your body earthing strap connections or bad terminal connections on your battery.

I have heard on this site that poor batteries can cause these sort of problems.

You need a systematic approach to this . Check everything step by step.

Good luck.

bbmcgee65

thank you for all of the suggestions, im gonna see what tomorrow...or actually today brings, ill keep you posted, hopefully ill have my fix soon...and hopefully not too much $$, i dont want a car payment...but dont want to keep pouring $$ into my girl either...just had the turbo replaced in october 2012. she has been with me since day one...9 miles and just hit 100000 the other week. i would like to put many more on but...well i think positive...thanks again

Glyn M Ruck

JC ~ The early W203's could be troublesome. Later ones were a lot more robust electronically. The W203 & W211 were the first two models that Benz did computer simulated endurance testing on instead of on the road. Big mistake! By 2002 they had them running on the road to iron out problems. Mid 2003 most problems were sorted. SAMs were made more robust etc. Benz now sticks to endurance testing on the road. They learned their lesson the hard way.

Also ~ without a Star we are making educated guesses as to problems. These cars were designed to depend on Star diagnostics.

Carsy

Thanks Glyn. Yes , computers to diagnose computers . That is the way of the world.

Trouble is DIY becomes less appliciable. !! but so far I am lucky that I have not had to call on the services of the dealer ...touch wood .

KHARBAT1

Okay , do you know where the possitive wire from the battrey hooks to the starter under the car ? . If nothing else , that will be the problem .
It happened to me before , when I give the car to the dealer it works , He says, nothing wrong with it . when i take it back , it works one time, then not. One day after i got the car from the dealer ,I went to pick my daughter from school , when i came back to the car , the car didnot start !!!. I went under the car infront of the school and found out the connection to the starter loose , some time it touches , sometimes it doesnot , all what i did is tighten the nut to make a tight connection. I Never had the problem again . I was so happy, I didnot even check back with the dealer .
Good luck . Let us know .

bbmcgee65

Wow, ok ill let my mechanic know, i had to have it towed, but only up the street. Do u think that cd cause all the problems with the instrument cluster? N draining the batt? I didnt want to tow it to mercedes, 2 hr min labor n since they actually did not do any diagnostic the first time, just sold me a new key, (just found that out) i tht id go back to my orig mechanic. Thanks for everyones ongoing advice, its still a troubleshoot. The #52 fuse was not blown, so didnt change it out. Not sure if i shd or not. Ill keep y'all posted