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M271 timing chain cover issue

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Old 11-15-2016, 05:58 PM
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2005 Mercedes Benz c230 kompressor
M271 timing chain cover issue

Hello everyone, I'm new to this and I have a 2005 c230 kompressor m271 motor with 174,835 miles and I'm starting to do the timing chain. I've had no problem with this car since I first bought it back in 2011, only major work was the a/c pump with new engine and transmission mounts. This car has been great to me, very well maintained and taking care of. My question is I just started doing the timing chain with new cylinder head, new supercharger, waterpump, new heater and coolant hoses, even a new exhaust manifold. Well I'm having trouble installing the main big timing chain cover which I think it's called the lower timing cover? Please anyone with experience please help. The cover is getting stuck hitting the front of the head gasket. Do I have to drop the oil pan to get it to fit or how? Please please anyone help!!!
Old 11-16-2016, 02:30 AM
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Timing Chain
Old 11-16-2016, 08:11 AM
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If someone removes the timing chain cover, then they have to lower the front cross member and oil pan. See around the 3min mark.

Most people/mechanics thread the timing chain and use the link and tool. That way, the timing chain cover doesn't have to be removed, and the front cross member and oil pan don't have to be lowered.

Note, you can remove and replace the left timing chain guide rail, without removing the timing chain cover.
Note: Buy original MB timing chain guide rails only!

See:
03-05 mercedes c230 1.8 timing marks
Cody the Car Guy

Last edited by RedGray; 11-16-2016 at 08:16 AM.
Old 11-16-2016, 08:39 PM
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Thank you so much for the help you guys, I bought the timing chain that's one whole loop already with new guide and tensioner which is all oem Notting aftermarket. Also which silicon do I use for the cover? I know there is several parts that just take silicon and no gaskets. Which silicon is best to seal perfect?
Old 11-16-2016, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Mna117
Thank you so much for the help you guys, I bought the timing chain that's one whole loop already with new guide and tensioner which is all oem Notting aftermarket. Also which silicon do I use for the cover? I know there is several parts that just take silicon and no gaskets. Which silicon is best to seal perfect?
That's a very good question!
I really should do a FAQ for the M271 head gasket in January or so.

You MUST use MB Part number: 003989982010
Do not use anything else made by anyone else. If that gasket leaks, you are screwed! You'd need to remove the timing chain and cams again. Imho, do not risk getting a leak in 10K miles, don't cheap out.

Also, I know the industry pretty well. Fake parts are a very big deal. A larger percentage of wheel bearings are fake!
So, for many things, I buy ONLY DIRECTLY FROM A DEALER. Sorry, Pelican. :-( I did buy ~$1,500 of parts from Pelican. But, I bought $2,500++ directly from dealers. Including this silicon.
On ebay, for ease of buying, I'll buy from mbofdurham.
http://stores.ebay.com/mbofdurham

Fro many parts, *I* like mbwholesalepartsonline.com. They are in NYC. I bought well over $2,000 in parts from them. Also, I've bought from southatlantamercedes.com.

I'm not saying any of those are the best, or the cheapest, or the fastest.
I'm saying that from looking, I felt they were safe to buy dealer parts from. After a close inspection when I got the parts, I don't have any reason to believe that they are not 100% MB parts. Although, the fakes cloners have gotten so good, even top Microsoft sales people and execs could not tell a fake Windows OS package from an original.
So again, imho, buy many parts only directly from a Dealer that you trust!



Also, one of the documents I uploaded says the exact bead with, and the only locations. Follow that exactly. Redo a bead if it's too wide, or off center.
Do a repair once correctly, and be done with it.

Also, you MUST get the head and the lower cam housing. 100% clean of any ole material. MB lists a cleaner. I should've bought some.
It took me a few hours to clean the lower can housing. I used mainly Acetone on the mating surface, a "sharp" 5-in-1 Home Depot scraper to clean the sides (it's my go to tool for gasket material removing. I'm familiar with it, and I can control the pressure accurately).
Still, near the timing chain cover legs, I had some silicon left on the lower cam housing. Arg! I used a new sheet of 2000 grit sandpaper - do not "spot sand", sand over a long wide area.
Old 11-16-2016, 09:37 PM
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FYI:
Fwiw, fake parts are a big concern in many industries. There are even fake electronic "chips"/parts. Especially for the $$ hi reliability, extended/extreme temperature, or radiation markets (like ABS controllers, Aircraft, or Space markets).

From:
http://www.ssgm.com/news/counterfeit...rt/1001922336/


COUNTERFEIT BEARINGS SEIZED AT TORONTO AIRPORT
Fake auto, industrial parts increasingly a worldwide concern, and yes they are also found in Canada
By: Rebecca Reid 2012-11-01

On Friday, July 13, The Timken Company received an ominous phone call from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) asking about counterfeit bearings.

Canadian customs had intercepted a full pallet, about 500, of what seemed to be the company’s bearings at Toronto’s Pearson International Airport in a shipment coming in from China.

“They sent some photographs of the cartons and the external packaging, and asked if we could determine whether they were counterfeit. Unfortunately to the trained eye—or the reasonably trained eye—the differences can be hard to spot, but the actual cartons looked wrong enough to raise suspicion,” says Evan Boere, business development manager at Timken in Mississauga, Ont.

All Timken products are packaged in black and orange cartons manufactured to a specific corporate standard that use holograms for counterfeit protection. Boere notes this packaging was lacking a hologram and the barcoding was wrong.

“Those were the first indications,” he says.

Timken’s experience is not an isolated incident. The World Bearing Association has embarked on a mission to educate customs officials around the world about ways to spot counterfeit bearings. In fact, the organization was formed specifically to tackle the problem of fake bearings and has launched the Stop Fake Bearings—http://www.stopfakebearings.com—campaign. These counterfeits don’t just impact the company’s bottom-line, the shoddy performance of these fakes can cost people their lives.

Counterfeit bearings have found their way into automobiles and commercial airplanes

After the shipment was flagged, the RCMP contacted Timken right away since products with health and safety concerns, like bearings, are given top priority.

“Constable Gill asked if we could do some analysis—there were enough telltale signs—so we sent to the bearings to our manufacturing plant in St. Thomas, Ont., that has a lab,” Boere says.

The bearing conformed to Timken standards in terms of dimensions and surface hardness and weight, but had severe scoring on the raceway due to poor workmanship. Timken proceeded to analyze the material at its metallurgical lab located at its Canton, Ohio headquarters, and discovered the metallurgy and heat treatment were incorrect.

Made in China

Tracking down the perpetrator, however, is challenging.

“That gets a little difficult,” he says. “It’s very difficult to determine the manufacturing source but they came in from China.”

“We have to do it ourselves,” explains Daniel J. Szoch, program manager at Timken in Canton. Szoch heads up the company’s global anti-counterfeiting operations. The authorities in China usually don’t take the lead in these investigations, he explains. The onus is on the manufacturer to track down the guilty party and point the authorities in the right direction. It can be costly and time consuming.

This was the second time in the past year Timken had been notified of counterfeit bearings entering Canada. The previous fakes were also Chinese-made.

“We received a phone call from one of our distributors saying they had unknowingly purchased a bearing from a source they thought was trustworthy,” Boere says. The source, a surplus house, shared the name of its supplier in China.

“We tried tracking them down but we weren’t successful,” Boere says.

In this last case, there were only six bearings and all were destroyed, he notes.

“The products were marked as made in the USA but they came from China at a really fantastic lead price. It’s interesting with surplus houses because they deal with stuff that comes from all over the world, so I think they tend to turn a blind eye as to whether the product could be counterfeit if the packaging looks close,” Boere says.

Identi-FAKE-ation

Border officials are the first line of defense against counterfeits and manufacturers have educated and continue to educate customs officials around the world on how to spot fakes. Timken’s Boere says he has conducted education sessions for Canadian customs officers and it looks like the efforts have paid off. Scott Lynch, executive director of the American Bearing Manufacturers Association (ABMA), says raising awareness is the first step to keeping fake bearings off the market.

Yet, officials don’t have time to thoroughly check every shipment and even then, fakes would still slip through the cracks. Lynch says Chinese officials have seized 2.2 million bearings, and a raid in Long Beach, Calif., in 2011 unearthed 750,000 fakes mimicking four different brands.

Szoch says they also work with customs officials around the world to heighten awareness about fake bearings, and to try to calculate the amount of counterfeit bearings passing through various countries. “They’ve been more than forthcoming in sharing that kind of information,” he notes.

Counterfeit bearings are unlikely to show up in the OEM supply chain because they purchase directly from the company, Szoch explains.

“This phenomenon has more of an impact on our aftermarket industrial distribution business,” he notes.

Szoch says it’s the top-selling products that get copied. Counterfeit bearings are increasingly a problem worldwide but the prevalence in the Canadian market is unknown.

All buyers can do is make sure they purchase from authorized distributors and to notify the manufacturer directly if they suspect a product is counterfeit.

“Given the nature of these activities, it is virtually impossible to quantify the magnitude of the problem, particularly vis-à-vis a particular manufacturer in a particular market,” says Ingalill Östman, senior vice-president, group communications and government relations at the SKF Group.

“Thankfully we have no reason to believe that this is a substantial or widespread issue in Canada,” she notes. “That being said, SKF Canada views even the rare instances of counterfeit products that have arisen in this country as serious.

Östman says SKF has worked with authorities in the limited number of circumstances when it has been necessary and would welcome further opportunities to work with border authorities.

“We understand there are customs measures that exist in other countries that are reasonably effective in detecting counterfeit shipments,” she explains. “SKF believes that Canadian law could be strengthened to better protect the borders and market against counterfeit products.”

A June 2012 report from the Canadian Intellectual Property Council, Counterfeiting in the Canadian Market: How do we stop it? , says Canadian border enforcement needs to be strengthened and an intellectual property (IP) crime task force created. As well, the report states customs officials need to be granted ex officio powers to intervene in the importation, exportation, shipment of counterfeit goods. As it stands now, customs officials can’t take action; that’s left up to the RCMP.

The Office of the United States Trade Representative (USTR) in its 2012 301 Report released in April agrees. It says Canada needs to increase powers for border officials and has placed the country on a priority watch list due to a poor track record of protecting intellectual property rights.

Buyer Beware

Health and safety concerns are the top reasons to be concerned about any counterfeit part, including bearings.

In October, for example, the U.S. Department of Transportation’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), issued a warning about counterfeit airbags circulating in the U.S. market that had either failed to deploy or unleashed shrapnel on the passengers and drivers in the vehicles.

RCMP says buyers need to consider the four P’s when making purchases. People can be easily fooled, even purchasers at your aftermarket supplier,

Packaging: Examine the packaging for quality, spelling errors, incorrect fonts, lack of the supplier’s standard security measures, like Timken’s holograms, and incorrect barcodes.

Price: If the price is too good to be true, it probably is. However, some counterfeiters do have the audacity to sell their shoddy knock-offs at full-price.

Product: Examine the product for signs of shoddy manufacturing.

Place: Be wary when purchasing online; ensure the dealer is reputable. Most counterfeit auto parts come from China (redistributed once they make it to Dubai) but Taiwan, India, Pakistan and Malaysia are also known to ship fake auto parts, the Motor & Equipment Manufacturers Association says in its 2008 report, Intellectual Property: Protecting Valuable Assets in a Global Market.

In 1997, the U.S. estimated the worldwide counterfeit auto parts market at US$12 billion, with the U.S. market accounting for 25 per cent. In 2008, market research firm Frost & Sullivan estimated the market would reach US$45 million by 2011.

Just like in the U.S., Canadian auto parts imports from China are increasing. According to Statistics Canada, $662 million of imports of motor vehicle parts and accessories under the headings 87.01 to 87.05 from China entered the Canadian market between January and August of 2012. Total imports for those categories reached $910 million in 2011, up from $806 million in 2010 and $632 million in 2009.

In 2010, U.S. imports were up to US$90.9 billion, an increase of 44.3 per cent from 2009, according to the 2011 Industry Annual Assessment from the U.S. Department of Commerce’s Office of Transportation and Machinery.

The most counterfeited parts are those that most often need replacing, like brakes, brake linings, rotors, seals, air filters, oil filters and windshields, to name a few. With the impact these parts have on safety, the old expression “buyer beware” now sounds more like salient advice rather than a cliché when purchasing with aftermarket automotive parts.

Last edited by RedGray; 11-16-2016 at 09:42 PM.
Old 11-16-2016, 10:08 PM
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2005 C230K Sport Coupe
Originally Posted by Mna117
I just started doing the timing chain with new cylinder head, new supercharger, waterpump, new heater and coolant hoses, even a new exhaust manifold.

I have a few questions and comments.

A) Where did you get the cylinder head and supercharger?
I got mine from tornaumotoren in Germany. I used Google translate. And, I had a friend verify my translation/interpretation.


B) What part number did you get for the head?


C) What exhaust did you go with?


D) Did your intake have an oil film in it.
My guess is that it did -if it's an American 192HO version of the M271. If that's the case, you need to/should run a dual catch can system. Don't cheap out. My catch cans cost ~$250 each. Also, that means that the air-to-air intercooler is semi-trash. Forget about cleaning it out properly to get rid of the oil film. get a new one. I got mine from Pelican for just over $200.
Also, I cleaned out my intake manifold and the other stuff in that path. I'm going to try to replace the air baffle that mounts to the front of the engine with a tube with port for the AIR system. I'll protect the chrome from the radiator and engine heat, to prevent heat soak. I'll likely use a wrap or something. It's still in the early stages. Just the plain chrome will be fine for any of my very limited winter driving, before we have constant snow cover.
My car hasn't been driven in the snow, and I'm not about to start. It's a secondary car, and play toy.



E) For whatever ********ed up reason, the MB documents say that they mechanic can reuse the cylinder head bolts.
WTF!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!??!??!? !!???!?!
Imho , now, I know where the latest generation Toyota Prius got the exec/manager with his/her head WAY WAY WAY up their *ss!

The head bolts are as obvious as they can be a Torque-to-Yield bolt. Heck, is any manufacture so stupid as to not use a TTY bolt on an aluminum head and block? I don't know of any.

Fwiw, you should NEVER EVER EVER EVER reuse a Torque-to-Yield bolt.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2001...rque-to-angle/
I didn't, and I never have.
That's also one of the parts I got directly from the Dealer.


F) When I took the head bolts off, they were VERY TIGHT (imho for an aluminum head and block).
When I installed the cylinder head bolts, I used a digital low-range torque wrench that measures down to the 0.1 n/m. It it a very nice new toy.
(imho, a main reason I do work on cars - New Tool Toys - YES! )
When I did the twice 90 degree angle tightening, I used a 1/2" breaker bar.
To my surprise and HORROR, *I* didn't feel any big increase in needed torque effort from the first pull, to the last finish. Yet, I didn't feel any thread stripping either.
Did you?
I do have a digital inline 1/2 torque meter. I didn't use it. I wish I knew before hand. It would've been interesting to see if there was a needed increase in force.
When I do torque angle tightening, I always initially position the breaker so that at the end, I have an easier time to pull the bar. That lets me use less force at the end, and do a better control of the final angle.
It may be that the leaning over the side, and I was tired enough, so that I didn't notice an added increase in torque/effort needed.
For an iron head and block, it takes a LOT of force to go to the final torque amount. No questions with iron heads and blocks.
Withe the GM aluminum head and blocks that Ive done, since GM has very often done an under-design in the head bolt fastening (they have a number of infamous engines with head issues), the extra force needed at the end was always very obvious to me.


Digital low-range torque wrench:
Btw, it'll show the peak torque in real-time on the display as you're tightening the bolt, along with an easy to discern change in audible beeping and tone. Very Nice!
On Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004VYUQI2
ACDelco ARM601-3 3/8-inch Digital Torque Wrench (2-37 ft-lbs)
And yes, I added the 1/2" version to my Christmas list. Imho, I can never have too many Torque Wrenches. Imho, it'll be great when I do tire swaps. Imho, putting the setting back to zero and then setting it time is a hassle. And, I don't want a big klutzy beam type torque wrench when I'm swapping tires. Yea, I'm spoiled with my tools.



Thanks in advance for any answers and insights!

Last edited by RedGray; 11-16-2016 at 10:52 PM.
Old 11-20-2016, 08:02 PM
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Sorry I've been mia, I've been working and trying to get this car together, I put everything together and in the process of putting the front timing cover I bent the front of the head gasket and it starting leaking oil from the top 2 corner of the cover where the power steering pump and supercharger are. Now I have to retake everything off again and redo it. I didn't want to take the oil pan off cause it's a lot of work to remove just for a simple cover. Is there a earlier way to put that cover on without damaging the head gasket? Don't want to remove the pan.
Old 12-19-2016, 08:42 PM
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Help anyone?!?!
second time removing timing cover and still leaking oil from the sides, first time it was both sides and now it's just one side leaking oil from cover. What can I do to stop it?!! Pls anyone, I used oem parts and silicon, didn't go cheap. Cars drives like a champ with tons of new parts but for some reason were the timing cover meets the block it's leaking, by the supercharger and a/c compressor side.

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