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The engine is an M271. The problem started 6 months ago when someone took the car out and it died about 500 meters from the house, I remember no crank no start at that time (now it cranks). It has been sitting in the garage since. Started working on it a few days ago. Got a new battery and it started to crank. Took a look at the Cam gears and chain, they look good and tight. Also checked spark plugs and tested them. Also, test one to see if it sparks and it did spark. Got codes P201F and P200B. I replaced my cam and crankshaft sensors but that did not help. Also, my CAMshaft magnets are leaking oil I noticed. Also, checked that there is some pressure in the fuel lines by pushing in the pin which is beside the engine at the top.
Things I am thinking it could be: MAF sensor, engine compression, relay or fuse, old fuel.
If anyone has any other suggestions I would greatly appreciate it! Check out this
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
Originally Posted by kad783
Took a look at the Cam gears and chain, they look good and tight.
.
Vid almost sounds like no compression but hard to tell ---does cam gears and chain move when it is cranking?
Originally Posted by kad783
Got codes P201F and P200B.
Things I am thinking it could be: MAF sensor, engine compression, relay or fuse, old fuel.
http://www.mercedesmedic.com/faultcodes/
referencing above site P200B could be anything but does have faulty ETC listed; try and unplug this and see if that helps. I think I recall someone else had a bad one and with it disconnected the car would start???
P201F appears to reference engine oil sensor. Perhaps that causes a no start? Sorry not really sure
Going to be doing a compression test this weekend and a fuel pressure test next.
Originally Posted by krazzdav
Vid almost sounds like no compression but hard to tell ---does cam gears and chain move when it is cranking?
I did not try to crank the engine when I was checking them out but here is a ...picture
Originally Posted by krazzdav
http://www.mercedesmedic.com/faultcodes/
referencing above site P200B could be anything but does have faulty ETC listed; try and unplug this and see if that helps. I think I recall someone else had a bad one and with it disconnected the car would start???
P201F appears to reference engine oil sensor. Perhaps that causes a no start? Sorry not really sure
If you clear codes do those same codes come back?
Yes when I clear codes, they did come back. Sorry, I don't know what is an ETC or where would I unplug it?
That's fine if you're not sure, thanks for the feedback!
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
Originally Posted by kad783
Yes when I clear codes, they did come back. Sorry, I don't know what is an ETC or where would I unplug it?
That's fine if you're not sure, thanks for the feedback!
Actually ETC (Electronic Transmission Control module) is in the transmission but you can try to unplug TCM (Transmission Conrol Module) and is on the passenger side behind the carpet; worth a shot -- heres a good vid on it
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
kad783
In this post car would start with TCM disconnected so worth a shot to see if it's transmission related -- long post but in the end his problem was the shift linkage had fallen off so was still left in gear and not allowing to start unless the TCM was disconnected. I don't believe you have the same issue but with the possible ETC fault maybe this could by-pass it?
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...connected.html
"So with the TCM disconnected and the shifter in Park, opened the switch to the on position, but decided to give it a try, and to my surprise the engine started right away."
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
Originally Posted by kad783
Hey Krazzday,
a few days ago I did disconnect the TCM and trying that but had the same results.
Anyways I did a compression test today and results are
Cylinder 1 - (40 then 80 psi when tested again)
2- (0 psi)
3- (0 psi)
4 - (70 psi)
Looks like you were right about compression sound.
Not sure what to do from here tho
wow thats crazy losing all that compression! I am taking that you are proficient with your skills but did you use a flat sealed compression guage with o-ring? The spark plug holes can get hard to screw in maybe lube the tester's threads to make sure it gets a good seal?
In any case if your test is accurate I would check the crank to cam alignment marks first; perhaps the chain jumped or some part that it rides broke? In your previous pic the cam sprocket gears look good though. I am really hoping they don't line up otherwise you would have a bad head or head gasket I think. You would want to do a leak down test at that point if the timing marks do line up.
wow thats crazy losing all that compression! I am taking that you are proficient with your skills but did you use a flat sealed compression guage with o-ring? The spark plug holes can get hard to screw in maybe lube the tester's threads to make sure it gets a good seal?
In any case if your test is accurate I would check the crank to cam alignment marks first; perhaps the chain jumped or some part that it rides broke? In your previous pic the cam sprocket gears look good though. I am really hoping they don't line up otherwise you would have a bad head or head gasket I think. You would want to do a leak down test at that point if the timing marks do line up.
Soo the gears don't line up, as seen in the pictures attached. Also did a leak down test even tho they did not line up and each cylinder was leaking.
guessing it's not worth fixing? as this car is not worth much anyways.
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
Originally Posted by kad783
Soo the gears don't line up, as seen in the pictures attached. Also did a leak down test even tho they did not line up and each cylinder was leaking.
guessing it's not worth fixing? as this car is not worth much anyways.
Did you line the crank up before checking the cam marks?
visually watch the valves open and close when you turn the motor over and make sure both valves are fully closed before doing a leak down test. Turn it over by hand to make sure nothing is hitting the pistons. It should turn over freely.
changing the chain, dampers and upgraded cam sprockets a lot of people have done and isn't that expensive. Can search the forum for diy on it.
A leak down test will have air escaping but you only want a certain percentage of blow by from the rings. If you don't have a leak down guage you just don't want a lot of air going out the intake or exhaust when both valves are closed. You have to do one cylinder then rotate the engine to the next cylinder. Im thinking that should be ok unless a valve got bent but not likely all valves and cylinders.
Did you line the crank up before checking the cam marks?
visually watch the valves open and close when you turn the motor over and make sure both valves are fully closed before doing a leak down test. Turn it over by hand to make sure nothing is hitting the pistons. It should turn over freely.
changing the chain, dampers and upgraded cam sprockets a lot of people have done and isn't that expensive. Can search the forum for diy on it.
A leak down test will have air escaping but you only want a certain percentage of blow by from the rings. If you don't have a leak down guage you just don't want a lot of air going out the intake or exhaust when both valves are closed. You have to do one cylinder then rotate the engine to the next cylinder. Im thinking that should be ok unless a valve got bent but not likely all valves and cylinders.
No, i did not line the crank up before checking the cam marks, how would I do that? (Got this pdf but still not sure) Not sure how to manually turn the engine by hand.
I did the test by taking the valve out of my compression tester hose and hooked it up to a compressor. Made sure the piston was at the top before testing 1 and 4 (by using a crew driver poked in the hole) then turned the engine (by cranking or using a higher psi) and tested 2 and 3. Just had to make sure the psi was not too high or the engine would turn. 1 and 2 had a lot of air leaking and 3 and 4 did not have much. I got no air out of the exhaust, not sure about intake. Should I get a leak down test kit to be more accurate?
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
Originally Posted by kad783
No, i did not line the crank up before checking the cam marks, how would I do that? (Got this pdf but still not sure) Not sure how to manually turn the engine by hand.
I did the test by taking the valve out of my compression tester hose and hooked it up to a compressor. Made sure the piston was at the top before testing 1 and 4 (by using a crew driver poked in the hole) then turned the engine (by cranking or using a higher psi) and tested 2 and 3. Just had to make sure the psi was not too high or the engine would turn. 1 and 2 had a lot of air leaking and 3 and 4 did not have much. I got no air out of the exhaust, not sure about intake. Should I get a leak down test kit to be more accurate?
don't worry about getting a leakdown tester.
on your pdf you missed step 3 which is critical to check cam position
in the picture for TDC there is a bolt in the center of that crank pulley you would use a small extension and large ratchet to gently turn the motor over clockwise/right while facing the engine.
np
i don't recall if you have to remove the intercooler pipe to get to it or not but you will find out lol....i think you do
Ok i was able to turn it from under the car, otherwise I would have to remove that pipe. Turned it to the T/0 marking and took a picture of the gears as seen.
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
Originally Posted by kad783
Ok i was able to turn it from under the car, otherwise I would have to remove that pipe. Turned it to the T/0 marking and took a picture of the gears as seen.
Wow!! There you go that is definitely your problem as the right cam has NO mark in site.
So I would research doing the chain replacement which should include upgraded cam gears/sprockets, chain, tensioner and guides if i recall. I haven't been lucky enough to have to do it myself so not sure if you need special tools to hold and align the cams as well. I have done cam followers on a M112 engine and that did need a special tool to hold the cams in the correct alignment.
When you were turning the engine by hand did it spin freely? I can't recall if these engines are interference fit where the valves could hit the pistons and bend. If you felt like anything was hitting you may have to do a head job also. If it spun freely I would go with the chain replacement above.
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
the cam adjuster marks do line up which is strange. something definitely gave....maybe only need to replace the right adjuster? not sure how that bolts to the cam but try to find what gave causing the problem....looks like the adjusters are in alignment but not the cam on the right. I am thinking that adjuster is actually what gave rather than the chain since the other marks do line up
depending on your mileage you could go the cheap/easier way out and just replace that adjuster and/or whatever the cam bolts to on the right or do the entire chain/gear replacement as they are known to fail also over time while you are in there.
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
i would also rotate the engine and try to find the mark on the right cam that is nowhere to be seen now before doing anything just to make sure it is there lol (right facing engine/driver's side)
Yes, it is an interference engine, I turned it halfway and did not feel any weird resistance, it was always the same resistance as I turned it slowly. Was not too easy to turn but not hard either. Car has 170,000 km. The right cam marks are there if I keep turning the engine but then I can't see the left ones lol.
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
thats what i was thinking and glad nothing hit causing more damage; good the mark is there haha always like to just make sure things that are weird like your situation; a quick search on camshaft adjusters found this thread where the internals actually break https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ml#post6347819
your first pics the gears dont look too bad but starting to round on the right just a little; i think you would be ok which ever way you decided to go....the entire job or just the adjuster
ok so did the leak down test (before changing any parts), my first tester was defective so had to get another one.
Results at 10 PSI and 100 PSI:
1: 9 psi, 80 psi
2: 0 psi always
3: 9.5 psi, 90 psi
4: 4 psi, 40 psi
So looks like this car is done for!
Just want to say thanks to krazzdav for all your help and suggestions, I learned a lot!
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
Originally Posted by kad783
Just wanted to follow up with my last update:
ok so did the leak down test (before changing any parts), my first tester was defective so had to get another one.
Results at 10 PSI and 100 PSI:
1: 9 psi, 80 psi
2: 0 psi always
3: 9.5 psi, 90 psi
4: 4 psi, 40 psi
So looks like this car is done for!
Just want to say thanks to krazzdav for all your help and suggestions, I learned a lot!
@kad783 i wouldn't say the car is done for but rather just need to have the cam adjuster replaced and realign the cams.
The reason i said there wasn't a need to do a leak down test after your first time is because the cams are out of alignment and the test results you just ran are invalid. To do a leakdown test properly both exhaust and intake valves must be closed for each individual cylinder. With the cams out of whack this will never happen (or at least not at the right time-- it is possible to have both valves closed but the piston not at TDC). If the cams were in alignment you would have to rotate the engine 90degrees each time from the crank TDC and do 1 cylinder at a time in the order they fire in (1-3-4-2). This is why your initial compression test showed no/low compression is because both valves are not closing when the piston is at the top of the compression stroke.
Don't fret and just trash the car but rather look into what it takes to do the timing chain/cam gear replacement. At the minimum you should just have to replace the cam adjuster that is out of alignment (driver's side) and you should be golden after. I would be willing to bet if you took off the cam adjuster now you will find broken pieces of it like the other post I mentioned above.
@kad783 i wouldn't say the car is done for but rather just need to have the cam adjuster replaced and realign the cams.
The reason i said there wasn't a need to do a leak down test after your first time is because the cams are out of alignment and the test results you just ran are invalid. To do a leakdown test properly both exhaust and intake valves must be closed for each individual cylinder. With the cams out of whack this will never happen (or at least not at the right time-- it is possible to have both valves closed but the piston not at TDC). If the cams were in alignment you would have to rotate the engine 90degrees each time from the crank TDC and do 1 cylinder at a time in the order they fire in (1-3-4-2). This is why your initial compression test showed no/low compression is because both valves are not closing when the piston is at the top of the compression stroke.
Don't fret and just trash the car but rather look into what it takes to do the timing chain/cam gear replacement. At the minimum you should just have to replace the cam adjuster that is out of alignment (driver's side) and you should be golden after. I would be willing to bet if you took off the cam adjuster now you will find broken pieces of it like the other post I mentioned above.
Not sure if it matters how I did the leak down test but here is what I did:
(1) remove all spark plugs.. (2) with the air compressor, injected low pressure air in a cylinder.. (10 psi) (3) Roll over the engine by hand (4) return engine to the position where the pressure was the highest (5) hold the chain and crank in place (6) Turn up the air compressor (100 psi)
Are my results still invalid?
If so I am willing to change the cam adjuster.
Also, the left cam is also not aligned at TDC, it looks aligned when the camshaft adjuster is at 1/0.
11-21-2018, 07:01 PM
2003 C230 kompressor - cranks but no start
(right facing engine/driver's side)
