Rear Bias Braking and Tire Wear
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 648
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From: Seattle
C-300, XC70, Wrangler
Rear Bias Braking and Tire Wear
Okay, apart from the "obvious", my rear tires are wearing faster than the fronts.
No, I'm not burning out, I've not turned off the electronic safeguards and done donuts in the parking lot, etc. This is just 'normal' wear.
At 13.5K miles, the fronts still look very good. The rears look much more worn. This is especially so just after parking the car in the sun when the tires are wet.
These are the Michelin Pilots that came with the car. Sure, an aftermarket tire might wear better ....
So, is this an artifact of the rain? Are the brakes being applied and somehow dragging on the rear tires? Or, is it due to the braking bias holding the rears and dragging the car to a stop? Or, is it something to do with ABS trying to let the fronts be more freewheeling during a stop? Or something else?
Um, this is an interesting tire wear pattern, and highly suggestive that rotating the tires is a GOOD idea. With this staggered setup, though, that's not going to happen.
As to other wear, the tires are even. The TPMS makes it easy to know when the tire is under-inflated, and I have a pump to refill as needed. I'm not seeing any scalloping, or one side wearing more than the other.
Ideas? Others' experiences?
No, I'm not burning out, I've not turned off the electronic safeguards and done donuts in the parking lot, etc. This is just 'normal' wear.
At 13.5K miles, the fronts still look very good. The rears look much more worn. This is especially so just after parking the car in the sun when the tires are wet.
These are the Michelin Pilots that came with the car. Sure, an aftermarket tire might wear better ....
So, is this an artifact of the rain? Are the brakes being applied and somehow dragging on the rear tires? Or, is it due to the braking bias holding the rears and dragging the car to a stop? Or, is it something to do with ABS trying to let the fronts be more freewheeling during a stop? Or something else?
Um, this is an interesting tire wear pattern, and highly suggestive that rotating the tires is a GOOD idea. With this staggered setup, though, that's not going to happen.
As to other wear, the tires are even. The TPMS makes it easy to know when the tire is under-inflated, and I have a pump to refill as needed. I'm not seeing any scalloping, or one side wearing more than the other.
Ideas? Others' experiences?
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Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Jerzee
C350
From the rear wheel cars that I've driven the wear ratio between rear to front tires is about 2.5 to 1
Meaning if you have to replace the rear tires in 1 year, the fronts will be in about 2.5 years. assuming no tire rotation because of a staggered setup
Meaning if you have to replace the rear tires in 1 year, the fronts will be in about 2.5 years. assuming no tire rotation because of a staggered setup
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From: Pacific Northwest
2022 GLE450
how about some more pics of your car, rims look amazing!
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Joined: Mar 2008
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From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia
2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan
I have found that rears will always wear faster in a real wheel drive.The rate of wear will depend on how light your right foot is & the type of road surface you drive on. eg gravel vs smooth tar.
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Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Jerzee
C350
thanks!
more pics in this thread
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/262223-official-w204-lowering-spring-thread-post-pics-eibach-pro-kit-h-r-sport-ss.html
more pics in this thread
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/262223-official-w204-lowering-spring-thread-post-pics-eibach-pro-kit-h-r-sport-ss.html
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From: Vancouver
C350 4Matic
Those pic's dont really show much. You cant really see how much tred is on the tires. But from what I can see they dont look bad at all. And ya you have heard that it is normal that the rear wears faster on RWD cars.
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Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 648
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From: Seattle
C-300, XC70, Wrangler
Yeah, I'm getting that message .....
It's odd, though. I've had RWD for over 40 years and this is the first time I've noticed this unbalanced wear.
But, this is also my first car with staggered wheels. Yet one more good reason to rotate tires, I guess!
thanks to all
It's odd, though. I've had RWD for over 40 years and this is the first time I've noticed this unbalanced wear.
But, this is also my first car with staggered wheels. Yet one more good reason to rotate tires, I guess!
thanks to all
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 21
Likes: 1
From: Chicago, Illinois
2008 C300 Manual Sport. 2017 E400 Wagon
FYI Tire rotation
Just an FYI, 7500 miles on my C300 6spd I have staggered rims with non directional M+S tires and rotated according to tire manufacturer. Rotate side to side then balance for direction of rotation of new placement. It made a positive difference in the ride and handling. Will do it again at 15k. or every other oil change.
Last edited by sjnorte; Sep 25, 2008 at 02:23 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I believe in rotating tyres for noise reasons even on a staggered set up - just change across the same axle to change rotation as long as you don't have directional tyres.
Also remember that rotating in whatever form accelerates tyre wear. Tyres settle into the alignment & road influence (mainly camber) of the wheel/location they are on. When you rotate they go through a settling process with accelerated wear. Michelin have some very interesting data in this regard.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Sep 25, 2008 at 06:59 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia
2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan
Your condition is normal.
I believe in rotating tyres for noise reasons even on a staggered set up - just change across the same axle to change rotation as long as you don't have directional tyres.
Also remember that rotating in whatever form accelerates tyre wear. Tyres settle into the alignment & road influence (mainly camber) of the wheel/location they are on. When you rotate they go through a settling process with accelerated wear. Michelin have some very interesting data in this regard.
I believe in rotating tyres for noise reasons even on a staggered set up - just change across the same axle to change rotation as long as you don't have directional tyres.
Also remember that rotating in whatever form accelerates tyre wear. Tyres settle into the alignment & road influence (mainly camber) of the wheel/location they are on. When you rotate they go through a settling process with accelerated wear. Michelin have some very interesting data in this regard.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Seattle
C-300, XC70, Wrangler
Thanks again ... but I've a question/observation or two ...
- With TPMS, pulling a tire off and mounting it on the other side for directional tires means what? It still rotates the same direction. This might solve lopsided wear, but won't do anything for faster wear in the rear, and it might damage the TPMS sensors
- Rotating uni-directional tires does what, exactly? Any lopsided wear is likely on both sides, if everything is symmetrical. Else while it may reduce noise, it can't reduce wear, so the tire will continue to wear because its on the rear.
I like the car, like the ride, the noise is more than acceptable, etc. But the whole thing about staggered tires just doesn't make sense for a road/touring car. I've been looking at 16s (as some of you know) when I need to replace the tires, but even a set of 4 17s x 8 makes better sense for my usual usage.
(The 16s would allow a specific tire that's not made in the 17 size for our cars ... it's a rain tire, useful in the sunny northwest!)
- With TPMS, pulling a tire off and mounting it on the other side for directional tires means what? It still rotates the same direction. This might solve lopsided wear, but won't do anything for faster wear in the rear, and it might damage the TPMS sensors
- Rotating uni-directional tires does what, exactly? Any lopsided wear is likely on both sides, if everything is symmetrical. Else while it may reduce noise, it can't reduce wear, so the tire will continue to wear because its on the rear.
I like the car, like the ride, the noise is more than acceptable, etc. But the whole thing about staggered tires just doesn't make sense for a road/touring car. I've been looking at 16s (as some of you know) when I need to replace the tires, but even a set of 4 17s x 8 makes better sense for my usual usage.
(The 16s would allow a specific tire that's not made in the 17 size for our cars ... it's a rain tire, useful in the sunny northwest!)
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Thanks again ... but I've a question/observation or two ...
- With TPMS, pulling a tire off and mounting it on the other side for directional tires means what? It still rotates the same direction. This might solve lopsided wear, but won't do anything for faster wear in the rear, and it might damage the TPMS sensors You cant do this with directional tyres
- Rotating uni-directional tires does what, exactly? Any lopsided wear is likely on both sides, if everything is symmetrical. Else while it may reduce noise, it can't reduce wear, so the tire will continue to wear because its on the rear. Tyres all develop a level of feathering. This causes air pumping noises that sound like a bearing failing or a 4X4 tyre. This is why one should change the direction of spin every 10000 Kms to stop noise. This is more of an issue with big block tyres & why companies like Yokohama made the AVS db2. No it won't prevent wear. It will accelerate it for a while. This is why I use Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2s - they are unidirectional and have tread bands with sipes and not blocks. I'm very sensitive to tyre noise.
I like the car, like the ride, the noise is more than acceptable, etc. But the whole thing about staggered tires just doesn't make sense for a road/touring car. I've been looking at 16s (as some of you know) when I need to replace the tires, but even a set of 4 17s x 8 makes better sense for my usual usage.
That's up to you. With staggered set up you need to get used to changing fronts & rears at different times rather than all 4 at a time
(The 16s would allow a specific tire that's not made in the 17 size for our cars ... it's a rain tire, useful in the sunny northwest!)Understood
- With TPMS, pulling a tire off and mounting it on the other side for directional tires means what? It still rotates the same direction. This might solve lopsided wear, but won't do anything for faster wear in the rear, and it might damage the TPMS sensors You cant do this with directional tyres
- Rotating uni-directional tires does what, exactly? Any lopsided wear is likely on both sides, if everything is symmetrical. Else while it may reduce noise, it can't reduce wear, so the tire will continue to wear because its on the rear. Tyres all develop a level of feathering. This causes air pumping noises that sound like a bearing failing or a 4X4 tyre. This is why one should change the direction of spin every 10000 Kms to stop noise. This is more of an issue with big block tyres & why companies like Yokohama made the AVS db2. No it won't prevent wear. It will accelerate it for a while. This is why I use Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2s - they are unidirectional and have tread bands with sipes and not blocks. I'm very sensitive to tyre noise.
I like the car, like the ride, the noise is more than acceptable, etc. But the whole thing about staggered tires just doesn't make sense for a road/touring car. I've been looking at 16s (as some of you know) when I need to replace the tires, but even a set of 4 17s x 8 makes better sense for my usual usage.
That's up to you. With staggered set up you need to get used to changing fronts & rears at different times rather than all 4 at a time
(The 16s would allow a specific tire that's not made in the 17 size for our cars ... it's a rain tire, useful in the sunny northwest!)Understood
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Thanks again ... but I've a question/observation or two ...
... I like the car, like the ride, the noise is more than acceptable, etc. But the whole thing about staggered tires just doesn't make sense for a road/touring car. I've been looking at 16s (as some of you know) when I need to replace the tires, but even a set of 4 17s x 8 makes better sense for my usual usage.....
... I like the car, like the ride, the noise is more than acceptable, etc. But the whole thing about staggered tires just doesn't make sense for a road/touring car. I've been looking at 16s (as some of you know) when I need to replace the tires, but even a set of 4 17s x 8 makes better sense for my usual usage.....
It may likely be wrong, but read a 2009 c300 review where they dropped the stagger, lux's got 17x 7.5 and sports got 17x8.5. Hmmmm... I would think someone with same sport model may want to swap fronts for your rears.? Both wind up with full rotation ability ( if 8.5's fit up front ... they do have more offset as I recall ).
as was noted, non-directional tires are great in that they can have rotation reversed to "reverse" the process of feathering the outer tire edge, which creates noise.
Have you found pics of the non-usa 2008 C230 7 spoke 16" wheels?
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C300 Sport/Palladium Silver on Black/P2
I do believe the Sport retained the staggered tires even on the 300 in 2009.
I do believe my rear tires have worn slightly more than the fronts. I just stick my fingers down in the thread and see how deep it feels, ha-ha, and the rears do feel more shallow now.
I have the Contis though, which supposedly have a longer tread life than the Michelins that MB also puts on these cars.
I do believe my rear tires have worn slightly more than the fronts. I just stick my fingers down in the thread and see how deep it feels, ha-ha, and the rears do feel more shallow now.
I have the Contis though, which supposedly have a longer tread life than the Michelins that MB also puts on these cars.
